I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.

[john832]

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

So, one can kill with impunity? After all, if one is now above the Law (the opposite of being under the Law), then the Law no longer has jurisdiction and what is sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

But if there is no longer any Law, then there is no sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Now, please explain these scriptures. Show us why they no longer apply and why it is that one who is no longer under the Law is free to murder, steal, lie etc.

 

[Mitspa]

Faith working by love is the only way to keep the law. always was, that is why the teachers of the law failed. they had no faith so they tried to work their way into Gods Grace.

Love does indeed fulfil all the law. without love you can obey the best you can but you have nothing.

Wow and your a SDA? And you really believe what you just said here?

 

[Mitspa]

So, one can kill with impunity? After all, if one is now above the Law (the opposite of being under the Law), then the Law no longer has jurisdiction and what is sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

But if there is no longer any Law, then there is no sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Now, please explain these scriptures. Show us why they no longer apply and why it is that one who is no longer under the Law is free to murder, steal, lie etc.

What part of love in Christ would ever kill? But if you don't love , the bible says your a murderer at heart already.... John we have been around this many times and you always lose...so why not just come to the truth?

 

[Lynx]

Because he doesn't think he lost the other times? ^.^

 

[Mitspa]

Yes deep down he knows. And he also knows that love not legalism is what God commands!

 

[john832]

What part of love in Christ would ever kill? But if you don't love , the bible says your a murderer at heart already.... John we have been around this many times and you always lose...so why not just come to the truth?

Didn't think you could.

 

[john832]

What part of love in Christ would ever kill? But if you don't love , the bible says your a murderer at heart already.... John we have been around this many times and you always lose...so why not just come to the truth?

OK, now show me one servant of God in the bible that was perfect and did not sin. Christ excluded, of course. Just one will do.

 

[john832]

Yes deep down he knows. And he also knows that love not legalism is what God commands!

What God asks of us is obedience in love.

Seems that the whole idea of obedience and grace is foreign to you.

 

[gotime]

Wow and your a SDA? And you really believe what you just said here?

Yes of course, this is what our church believes and teaches. I have seen the power of the transforming love of God many times and it amazes me every time.

When we say you must obey the law, we ;mean it in the context of the transforming grace of God through Faith in Jesus Christ which produces love in the heart.

This is a work that God does in the heart and not something that we offer God.

That is why it is the fruit and not the vine, Jesus is the vine and only when we abide in Him can we produce the sweet fruit of loving obedience to God.

I don't steal, not because of a rule but because the love of God in me constrains me to love my neighbour and how can I steal from one I love?

I put God before all things not because of a rule but because His love constrains me to love Him above al else.

I keep the Sabbath not because of a rule but because the love of God constrains me to accept that wonderful Gift from the one I love.

I don;t bear false witness not because of a rule but because the love of God constrains me to love my neighbour so that I would never damage those who Christ died for.

Therefore love is the fulfilment of the law.

 

[secularhermit]

Hi!

I´m not a Sunday worshiper...

 

[Sirk]

For the record..on the weekends I'm not on the worship team I typically go to the Saturday night service. Which reminds me....riddled me this all you sabbath keepers....is the pastor not working on the sabbath? Hmmmm....seems the pastor is taking one for the team I guess.

 

[gotime]

For the record..on the weekends I'm not on the worship team I typically go to the Saturday night service. Which reminds me....riddled me this all you sabbath keepers....is the pastor not working on the sabbath? Hmmmm....seems the pastor is taking one for the team I guess.

I know it sounds funny, but this shows that you have no idea what keeping the Sabbath is biblically.

Did the priests do their duty on Sabbath?

Did Jesus teach and instruct on the Sabbath?

does doing the work of god break the Sabbath?

 

[haz]

yeah yeah Haz the most evil thing one can do is obey right?

oh wait Paul said;
1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?""

But you don't even keep the 10 commandments.

You fail to keep the law perfectly and are therefore guilty of all the law (James 2:10).

And being that you put yourself under the law (Rom 3:19), and the law is not of faith (Gal 3:12), you are thus disobedient to the faith.

Rom 1:5
Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith

 

[Sirk]

I know it sounds funny, but this shows that you have no idea what keeping the Sabbath is biblically.

Did the priests do their duty on Sabbath?

Did Jesus teach and instruct on the Sabbath?

does doing the work of god break the Sabbath?

I do understand. I'm just illustrating the absurdity of the sabbath being on a particular day. Some people work on Sunday. Some people work on Saturday. The sabbath is a day of rest and reflection on Jesus and can be on any day of the week thAt ends with a y.

 

[haz]

What God asks of us is obedience in love.

Seems that the whole idea of obedience and grace is foreign to you.

Why are you disobedient to the faith?

You preach that keeping the 10 commandments is evidence of righteousness yet your yourself fail to keep the law.

The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

I will go before His throne not hiding anything I have done.

But you don't even keep the 10 commandments.

You fail to keep the law perfectly and are therefore guilty of all the law (James 2:10).

And being that you put yourself under the law (Rom 3:19), and the law is not of faith (Gal 3:12), you are thus disobedient to the faith.

Rom 1:5
Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith

Matt 7:7-14, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you: For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. For what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, would give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, would give him a serpent? If you then, being sinful, know how to give righteous gifts to your children, how much more will your Father Who is in heaven give righteous gifts to those who ask Him? Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is (the intent) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

Mattithyah 7:24-27, "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat against that house; but it did not fall, for it was founded upon the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat against that house; and it fell, and great was the fall of it."

 

[Lynx]

Well since this seems to have degenerated into an argument about whether or not to keep the Sabbath... I will mention something that has doubtless been mentioned many times in many Sabbath threads here. Namely the part where Jesus' disciples plucked and ate corn on the Sabbath.

No, I'm not using it as an argument against keeping the Sabbath. Jesus had something far more profound to teach at that point. Man isn't made to keep laws, laws are made for the benefit of man. If you keep the Sabbath because you feel you have to follow the rules, you're doing it wrong - just as wrong as those who do not keep the laws and every bit as wrong as the Pharisees who followed a list of rules as though it meant life or death to them.

The same thing applies to all the rules we follow. Take tithing for example. People argue long and hard on both sides, and each side has its own verses supporting "we are required to tithe" and "we are not required to tithe." YOU'RE BOTH ANSWERING THE WRONG QUESTION! Personally I know what my money is going to - keeping the lights on and water running, paying for gas for the church bus, visiting ministers, etc. I tithe not because I feel I have to but because I think this stuff is important.

Speaking of which, Saturday and Sunday I didn't have to work. I thoroughly enjoyed my days off. Which one was my Sabbath? Both of them. I didn't really need two days off, but my workplace didn't have me on the schedule so I enjoyed resting while I had them.

 

[gotime]

I do understand. I'm just illustrating the absurdity of the sabbath being on a particular day. Some people work on Sunday. Some people work on Saturday. The sabbath is a day of rest and reflection on Jesus and can be on any day of the week thAt ends with a y.

No offence but your illustration failed because it was based on an umbilical Idea of what keeping the Sabbath means.

The Sabbath according to the bible that Christians claim to uphold says the Sabbath is the 7th day. so respectfully you are wrong. as it is written:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

There is no command found answer to keep Sunday or any other day as the weekly Sabbath.

Those who keep His day Rest in His works.

 

[Sirk]

No offence but your illustration failed because it was based on an umbilical Idea of what keeping the Sabbath means.

The Sabbath according to the bible that Christians claim to uphold says the Sabbath is the 7th day. so respectfully you are wrong. as it is written:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

There is no command found answer to keep Sunday or any other day as the weekly Sabbath.

Those who keep His day Rest in His works.

Im wrong if youre an Old Testament Jew. I'm right because jesus set me free from the law. I live under grace...unmerited favor. Jesus wrote something in the dirt and it said...back off...this is my child.

 

[haz]

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

To you "establish" the law means obedience to the law as evidence that one is righteous.
But then you fail to keep the law anyway, thus are guilty of all of it, James 2:10.

Christians "establish" the law in that we acknowledge that it is good, just and holy (Rom 7:12) and that we were deserving of the death penalty. We then sought God's mercy and were saved by His grace.

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Legalists, being still under the law, have not died to sin as they all fail to keep the commandments.

Christians, however, have submitted to God's righteousness. Our physical body is already dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6) because of sin, Rom 8:10. As long as we continue to believe on Jesus then that flawed physical body remains crucified and we cannot be charged with sin again.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing(this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?

Christians "cannot sin" (1John 3:9), we've "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1). We've died to sin. Rom 6:2

I will go before His throne not hiding anything I have done.

How can anyone hide anything from God?

Sadly, legalists will be judged under the law that they choose over grace.

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

God's will is that we believe on Jesus.
John 6:40
this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life:

1Thess 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification (which we have when we believe on Jesus, Heb 10:10), that ye should abstain from (spiritual) fornication (with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24):

Legalists reject God's will. Instead they prefer spiritual fornication with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law. Legalists refuse to submit to God's righteousness.

Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

It's the legalists who, being under the law, are those who practice lawlessness as they fail to keep the law they place themselves under for righteousness.