It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Mitspa]

So stopping killing, lying and stealing would warrant one to be accused of "boasting on their works"

So do I have to be super evil to be saved?

Why do you desire to do these things? Are you a slave of sin?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well if you don't like the separation of the sheep and the goats parable then you have an issue with God and not me.
For in that parable it clearly says that the goats believe Jesus to be their Lord, but their belief is not a true faith based on the Lord. For if it was they would do as He said, but because instead they denied to help others in need; Jesus says you have denied me, and He sends them to eternal punishment.
If they would have done the works of love, by helping others in need, then they would have been sheep heading to eternal life. Instead they got sent to eternal punishment for not walking in love. Just stating that you believe in the Lord Jesus is not enough for salvation. Sorry Atwood, but it is not and it is all over the NT that it isn't. It says in multiple places your actions, deeds, works have to match your faith. This does not mean you earn salvation by them, it means you have submitted your whole life to Him as a believer should.

You have posted salvation by works citing the Sheep & Goat Judgment claiming that people are not saved until the outcome of that judgment. Have you repented of that false gospel? And here again you advocate the human work of water baptism for salvation.

The only repentance that saves is from unbelief to belief in the Savior.
Spirit baptism is salvific, but it is something God does, not what man does.



Repentance is what man does when he changes from unbelief to belief; Born again is what God does.

The point is not about from where faith comes. The point is that a change from unbelief to belief is repentance, the only repentance that saves. Saying that faith is mediated by hearing God's word is a red herring & irrelevant to the point that salvation is by belief alone & that repentance is a change of mind, which is what happens when you change from trusting in the idol of water or good works & start trusting the Savior with your eternal destiny.



One can have a change of mind about many things. But a believer is already saved & his change from non-belief to belief is what brings salvation. Of course after being saved, many ideas many be changed that a man has. But the topic is not what a believer does after being saved, but what MUST I DO to be saved.

The only MUST I DO is believe on the Lord Jesus. This is emphasize when the language is everyone who believes or all who believe or whosoever believes.



utter nonsense. There are too many such passages even for one post on this forum.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
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John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
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John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 15 that
whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

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John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
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John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
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John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
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John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
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John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
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John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
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JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
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Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

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Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
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Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

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Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

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Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

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[All them who believer, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]

for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
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27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

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Rom 4:1ff

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
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4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
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6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

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10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
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14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
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17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
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Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

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Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

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Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
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[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

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1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
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[Mitspa]

Hear is the "goats".....

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith:

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Atwood]

So stopping killing, lying and stealing would warrant one to be accused of "boasting on their works"

So do I have to be super evil to be saved?

Yes, you have to be described in Romans 1-3. As long as you persist in thinking that not all of your righteousnesses are as filthy rags, you are seriously mistaken. He came not to the righteous, but sinners. Only sinners are eligible for salvation. If an unsaved man claims that he has ceased lying, he is lying to himself!

The Christian is told that he who has suffered in the flesh (i.e. died) has ceased from sin.

 

[Atwood]

Well if you don't like the separation of the sheep and the goats parable

God's word is joy to my heart as it is the truth. The Judgment where there are 3 parties mentioned (not just sheep & goats, but also Christ's brethren) is not about salvation, but judgment. Judgment is by works, but salvation is by grace. Only those who have gone through the tribulation stand at that judgment. Christians do not go to it. In general unbelievers to the Great White Throne judgment (different judgment).

For in that parable it clearly says that the goats believe Jesus to be their Lord, but their belief is not a true faith based on the Lord.

utter nonsense. Addressing the judge as "Lord" implies nothing about the spiritual state of the person on trial. Every knee shall bow & tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord -- it has nothing to do with salvation. Neither does the parable mention the topic of salvation at all. What you have posted indicates that you need to repent of your works-salvation mentality, trusting in your self-righteousness & water baptism.

Where did I get my doctrine of salvation from?
I got it from God's Word. I have read through the entire Bible on that topic marking all the relevant passages in pink. Have you done that? How many times have you read the Bible through, Kenneth?

 

[Hizikyah]

So stopping killing, lying and stealing would warrant one to be accused of "boasting on their works"

So do I have to be super evil to be saved?

Why do you desire to do these things? Are you a slave of sin?

Posts a question...

mitspa comes along


hey buddy why do you drink purple elephant juice and ride in a clown car while reading the newspaper....

Nothing like putting some misrepresentation on another man at every chance you get?

I was told repentace IS ONLY A MIND CHANGE NOT A PHYSICAL CHANGE... So im asking you two, if one has to stay in works of evil to be saved? or can one depart from evil and be saved?

 

[Hizikyah]

Yes, you have to be described in Romans 1-3. As long as you persist in thinking that not all of your righteousnesses are as filthy rags, you are seriously mistaken. He came not to the righteous, but sinners. Only sinners are eligible for salvation. If an unsaved man claims that he has ceased lying, he is lying to himself!

The Christian is told that he who has suffered in the flesh (i.e. died) has ceased from sin.

Not say you or just you, but rather the entire anti-nomian gang that has amassed.

So when I post this I get called Lawless:

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

And when I ask if we can depart from sin and be saved I get called "boasting in my works"

 

[Atwood]

Everywhere the bible speaks about repentance it is the change of mind toward your sins. Not going from unbelief to belief.

Let's see your proof of that one.

2 examples:

For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not; but the 11publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye saw it, did not even repent yourselves afterward, that ye might believe him.



Mark 1:15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.

I showed you how the bible says that faith comes by hearing the word, and in that trust in what it says it leads you to repent of your sins.

And I pointed out to you that what facilitates faith is not the issue, irrelevant. And I never said that there is no repentance which is a change of mind about behavior, particularly after a man is saved. I pointed out to you in a multitude of verses that salvation is offered by faith alone, by belief in the Son of God. And since repentance is a change of mind & believing is a change of mind for the unbeliever, it is obvious that the repentance from unbelief to belief saves. It is the belief that saves & the repentance is the change from unbelief to belief. Thus belief and repentance for salvation amount to the same thing. If they were different and both separate essentials for salvation, scripture would not offer salvation over & over just for believing, using such language as everyone who believes, all who believe, and whosoever believes. Such language rules out any essential addition to believing.

Lord Jesus says until you repent of your sins you will still perish, not saved yet. Then He says you must be born again, and that is done through baptism.

You are not the Lord Jesus, Kenneth, so if you have a verse quote it. It is the change of mind from unbelief to belief which saves, nothing else. Being sorry for sins never saves. The new birth has nothing to do with water immersion, neither does John 3 say anything about water immersion. And if you base your theory on that, then you need to repent of denying the example of the Thief on the cross based on erroneous dispensationalism, as John 3 was before the cross & before the New Age also.

When you are immersed in water you are buried into His death, and then your rising up is symbolic of His resurrection to be born again in the Spirit. Then you are given remission of sins at that time, your future sins still have to be confessed to receive that remission.

(Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47, 1 John, Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12, 1 Peter 3:21)

The verses you site do not support your erroneous assertions. If you had to confess future sins to receive that remission, they you were not given remission of sins at the first. Your theories are unbiblical.

THUS SAITH THE LORD:

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.

Rom 4:16

For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, evento them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave useternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.


Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.​

 

[Atwood]

Posts a question...
So im asking you two, if one has to stay in works of evil to be saved? or can one depart from evil and be saved?

Hizikyah (is your wife's name Herikya?).

Thou shalt call HIs name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. You cannot stop sinning before you are saved. The sinner finds this Savior who will save Him from His sins, give the sinner a new nature which rejoices to do God's will & hates sin.

Sinner > trusts the Savior > gets salvation from sin.

 

[kennethcadwell]

God's word is joy to my heart as it is the truth. The Judgment where there are 3 parties mentioned (not just sheep & goats, but also Christ's brethren) is not about salvation, but judgment. Judgment is by works, but salvation is by grace. Only those who have gone through the tribulation stand at that judgment. Christians do not go to it. In general unbelievers to the Great White Throne judgment (different judgment).



utter nonsense. Addressing the judge as "Lord" implies nothing about the spiritual state of the person on trial. Every knee shall bow & tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord -- it has nothing to do with salvation. Neither does the parable mention the topic of salvation at all. What you have posted indicates that you need to repent of your works-salvation mentality, trusting in your self-righteousness & water baptism.

Where did I get my doctrine of salvation from?
I got it from God's Word. I have read through the entire Bible on that topic marking all the relevant passages in pink. Have you done that? How many times have you read the Bible through, Kenneth?

The separation of the sheep and the goats has nothing to do with salvation ????

See that is where you completely are off, because it clearly shows one group ( Sheep ) went to eternal life for walking in the works of love in their faith.
The other group ( Goats ) get sent to eternal punishment for not doing works of love in their faith, showing that their faith was not truly in Him.

If you have salvation, you have eternal life; and if you don't have salvation, you don't have eternal life.
So your saying that the separation of the sheep and the goats is not about salvation, is flawed......................

 

[kennethcadwell]

[h=1]Bible Verses About Repentance[/h][h=4]Bible verses related to Repentance from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance[/h] - Sort By Book Order



2 Chronicles 7:14 - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Luke 13:3 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Revelation 2:5 - Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

James 4:8-10 - Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded. (Read More...)

Ezekiel 18:21-23 - But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. (Read More...)

Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Proverbs 28:13 - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh [them] shall have mercy.

2 Corinthians 7:9-11 - Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. (Read More...)

Matthew 3:2 - And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Joel 2:13 - And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

Jeremiah 18:8 - If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

Revelation 3:19 - As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Luke 13:5 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 4:17 - From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jeremiah 26:3 - If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

Revelation 3:3 - Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Romans 6:4 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jonah 3:10 - And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did [it] not.

Isaiah 44:22 - I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Psalms 119:127 - Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

Psalms 38:18 - For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.

Acts 20:21 - Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:22 - Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Luke 18:10-14 - Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. (Read More...)

Haggai 1:7 - Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

Jonah 3:9 - Who can tell [if] God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

Joel 2:12 - Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye [even] to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ezekiel 33:14-16 - Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; (Read More...)

Jeremiah 7:5 - For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

2 Timothy 2:25 - In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Mark 1:4 - John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:1-17 - In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, (Read More...)

Zechariah 3:1-10 - And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. (Read More...)

Jonah 3:8 - But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that [is] in their hands.

Ezekiel 36:31 - Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Isaiah 55:6 - Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Proverbs 9:6 - Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

Psalms 69:10 - When I wept, [and chastened] my soul with fasting, that was to my reproach.

Psalms 51:7-17 - Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. (Read More...)

Psalms 51:1-4 - (To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.) Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. (Read More...)

Psalms 40:12 - For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.

Revelation 3:2 - Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

1 Peter 2:25 - For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hebrews 12:17 - For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Romans 11:23 - And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Romans 2:4 - Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Acts 26:20 - But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Acts 5:31 - Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:40 - And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Luke 22:62 - And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Luke 13:1-5 - There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. (Read More...)

Luke 10:13 - Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

Luke 3:3 - And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Mark 6:12 - And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Ezekiel 33:19 - But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

Ezekiel 20:43 - And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.

Ezekiel 18:27 - Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Isaiah 5:1-30 - Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill: (Read More...)

Psalms 127:1-3 - (A Song of degrees for Solomon.) Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain. (Read More...)

Psalms 41:4 - I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.

Job 13:23 - How many [are] mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.

Exodus 32:14 - And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

1 Corinthians 15:9 - For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Romans 14:11 - For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Acts 2:1-47 - And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (Read More...)

Acts 1:18 - Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Acts 1:16 - Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Luke 15:17-21 - And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! (Read More...)

Luke 15:17-20 - And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! (Read More...)

Luke 15:1-10 - Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. (Read More...)

Luke 7:37-48 - And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that [Jesus] sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, (Read More...)

Luke 6:21 - Blessed [are ye] that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed [are ye] that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

Luke 5:32 - I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 14:72 - And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

Mark 2:17 - When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 27:3-5 - Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, (Read More...)

Matthew 26:75 - And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Matthew 21:29 - He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 5:4 - Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Matthew 3:8 - Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matthew 3:7 - But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 3:6 - And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Malachi 3:7 - Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept [them]. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

Zechariah 12:10 - And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Zechariah 1:3 - Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.


Every single one of them is about turning away from your wicked/sinful ways !!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

God's word is joy to my heart as it is the truth. The Judgment where there are 3 parties mentioned (not just sheep & goats, but also Christ's brethren) is not about salvation, but judgment. Judgment is by works, but salvation is by grace. Only those who have gone through the tribulation stand at that judgment. Christians do not go to it. In general unbelievers to the Great White Throne judgment (different judgment).



utter nonsense. Addressing the judge as "Lord" implies nothing about the spiritual state of the person on trial. Every knee shall bow & tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord -- it has nothing to do with salvation. Neither does the parable mention the topic of salvation at all. What you have posted indicates that you need to repent of your works-salvation mentality, trusting in your self-righteousness & water baptism.

Where did I get my doctrine of salvation from?
I got it from God's Word. I have read through the entire Bible on that topic marking all the relevant passages in pink. Have you done that? How many times have you read the Bible through, Kenneth?

And that right there where you are saying that they are just calling Him Lord because that is how you address a judge is flawed. That was made up by a man made doctrine that did not want to accept that your actions matter when it comes to salvation.
These go along with the others who thought they were saved, but were really doing things for themselves and not out of love for Him. That He ends up telling them not everybody who calls me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. They believed in Him in the since that they knew Him, but they did not truly believe Him through love. So there actions, and deeds were done for self and not for Him.


Titus 1:16


They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

 

[ChristIsGod]

It is indeed an interesting question. Place into the context in which it is given and you will see that your exegesis is off by quite a bit.

Christians live by the faith of Christ. This faith is God given through the word of God.

It is not my faith but the faith of Christ that saves and keeps me saved. Christ ministers my salvation eternally.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So what is Jesus saying in John 3:16?

Even John 3:16's "Believeth" is an "present active participle". Faith is believing ... is it not? From the root word - faith the noun turned into the verb = faithing - in essence.

"The idea seems to be both gnomic and continual: "everyone who continually believes." This is not due to the present tense only, but to the use of the present participle of πιστεύω, especially in soteriological contexts in the NT.
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pp. 620-621.

Who is doing the continuous believing in John 3:16?

Joh 3:16 ουτωςG3779 ADV γαρG1063 CONJ ηγαπησενG25 V-AAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM τονG3588 T-ASM κοσμονG2889 N-ASM ωστεG5620 CONJ τονG3588 T-ASM υιονG5207 N-ASM αυτουG846 P-GSM τονG3588 T-ASM μονογενηG3439 A-ASM εδωκενG1325 V-AAI-3S ιναG2443 CONJ παςG3956 A-NSM οG3588 T-NSM πιστευων G4100 V-PAP-NSM εις G1519 PREP αυτον G846 P-ASM μη G3361 PRT-N αποληται G622 V-2AMS-3S αλλ G235 CONJ εχη G2192 V-PAS-3S ζωην G2222 N-ASF αιωνιον G166 A-ASF

Or in John 20:31? .... just for two -

Joh 20:31 ταυταG3778 D-NPN δεG1161 CONJ γεγραπταιG1125 V-RPI-3S ιναG2443 CONJ πιστευσητεG4100 V-AAS-2P οτιG3754 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM ιησουςG2424 N-NSM εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM χριστοςG5547 N-NSM οG3588 T-NSM υιοςG5207 N-NSM τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM καιG2532 CONJ ιναG2443 CONJ πιστευοντες G4100 V-PAP-NPM ζωηνG2222 N-ASF εχητεG2192 V-PAS-2P ενG1722 PREP τωG3588 T-DSN ονοματιG3686 N-DSN αυτουG846 P-GSM

Joh 20:31 ButG1161 theseG5023 are written,G1125 thatG2443 ye might believeG4100 thatG3754 JesusG2424 isG2076 theG3588 Christ,G5547 theG3588 SonG5207 of God;G2316 andG2532 thatG2443 believing [PAP] G4100 ye might haveG2192 lifeG2222 throughG1722 hisG846 name.G3686

We're saved by Grace through Faith - but that faith obviously has to be continuous and if you can't see that through-out the New Testament and that faith or believing, if it isn't 'active' showing fruit unto salvation - odds are the person may fall away or never was saved to begin with. But either way - whether they fell away or never were saved - their actions show that they just are NOT SAVED and even a 7 point Calvinist would say so, as I've known of some that were dis-membered from their church for not believing continuously and their fruit was what you can imagine - even though they were pastors, elders and teachers.

Either way - they were deemed not saved by their lifestyle - though they grew up in the Church - actively 'serving' - even counseling others in the Church - but when they fell - it certainly made a Loud Thud and they haven't returned / repented since.

So, what say ye? That they were never saved - right? Sure, that's the most convenient answer because either you do side with at least 5 points of Calvinism or you just fear 'fearing the Lord' and dislike that word "obedience". Which is it?

 

[ChristIsGod]

Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but -- have you ever checked the Greek Grammar on that word "believe" or "believeth" ???

It's more often a "present active participle" which would be "Continuous [non-endiing] Action".

Jesus asked - Luke 18:8b ..... Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?

Now what kinda question is that for Him to ask? Why would He need to ask such a thing?

So - if this "faith/believing" [pistueo = a Verb] must be a verb that's Continuously Active - we should be looking for verses that #1 - shows the 'action' of this faith/believing and secondly - find verses that show a necessity of a "continuous" faith/believing action.

Right?

So what if He returns and finds us not actively continuing in the works of faith?

-- as faith doesn't stand inactive - there is fruit of active continuous faith as He commanded us to...

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:



________________________________________________________________


Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; {for he is faithful that promised}
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Heb 10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
Heb 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Could we read these passages again from 1 Peter and Hebrews above and try to see who is believing [having faith] and being warned to not stop believing and thus become disobedient in their actions?

 

[Atwood]

The separation of the sheep and the goats has nothing to do with salvation ????

Kenneth, you don't seem to understand the plain meaning of save, Savior, & salvation -- and you don't seem to understand that these words do not mean judge or judgment.

Salvation is about a Savior saving sinners from the Lake of Fire because He died for their sins; He was their substitute & paid the penalty of death which the sinner owes for his sins.

In the Sheep & Goat Judgment there is no Savior, no save, & no salvation. There is nothing in it about saving sinners from anything.
It is a judgment of works.

When you hear the word salvation you seem to hear "getting to go to Heaven," instead of "being saved from sin and made a child of God."

There is no salvation at all in the Judgment of the Sheep & Goats. There is no sinner getting transformed from a child of Adam by a new birth to being a Child of God.

May the Lord open your eyes. Save means save!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Well, thanks to Kenneth for quoting scripture, though he didn't prove that salvation is not by grace through faith (plus nothing essential) with his effort.

One thing though, Kenneth, you need to sort your verses by original language words. Metanoia is the NT Greek word and means change of mind. There are other words translated repent which are different in meaning. It is metanoia (change of mind from unbelief to believe) which saves, not (for example) metamelomai. If you have an engine that can search by original language it would help. If not, a Young's Concordance breaks down the words by original languages.

 

[Atwood]

And that right there where you are saying that they are just calling Him Lord because that is how you address a judge is flawed.

It is not flawed. And I didn't say that was how you address a judge per se. But using "Lord" is appropriate for all creatures, saved or not to address the Lord of the universe. Calling Christ "Lord" by no stretch implies trusting Him as Savior. It is an absurd argument to call persons in a judgment who address Christ as Lord "believers." But there again, I think that part of your basic doctrinal problem is confusing believing in Christ in the sense of trusting Him with "believing that something is so."

By addressing Christ in the judgment as LORD, it proves nothing about them being believers in the sense of trusting the Savior. That there comes a time when everyone has to believe that God exists & that Christ is Christ, of course that will happen. But it has nothing to do with the doctrine of salvation being by grace through faith.

May the Lord unblind your eyes.