It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

We're saved by Grace through Faith - but that faith obviously has to be continuous

No, it is not obvious.

Πίστευσον ἐπὶ τὸν κύριον Ἰησοῦν καὶ σωθήσῃ Act 16:31.

The commandment Believe! is aorist, not present tense there. Aorist is the tense used when one wishes to express action at a point in time, a single action. The promise is Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. The following future result is salvation.

Something done over a period of time (not necessarily continuous for years) merits the present tense. And believing is something done not just at a moment, but over time. Thus John 3:16 implies that if now in the present time a man is believing, He receives eternal life, not temporary life with a shot at eternal life.

It has nothing to do with multi-point Calvinism, neither does mentioning the name "Calvin" prove anything.

And since salvation is instant, it does not require constant believing to receive salvation, though once a man does trust the Lord, there is no indication that He ever stops that basic trust for salvation, though he may fail to trust in some concrete situation.


Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:

"But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.


In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)


The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

 

[Atwood]

Could we read these passages again from 1 Peter and Hebrews above and try to see who is believing [having faith] and being warned to not stop believing and thus become disobedient in their actions?

I am glad to see that the poster of Hebrews 10 got to the punch line:

Heb 10:39 But are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[Atwood]

Thought 4 The Night

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and that
fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are
guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

 

[ChristIsGod]

What I posted to you was correct grammar of those verses that I gave -- but what you're doing is coming back with verses that are conversations between, Jesus or Paul or others from Acts that are to an INDIVIDUAL or a Church that the Apostle was familiar with, as Galatia, etc. ... and you only quote one verse and never full context and Never a COMMAND that's found in the N.T. besides 'maybe' you might claim 'love' - but as far as living a life of His love for all mankind and especially the household of faith - are you really? Only you can answer that -- as well as the rest of us.

Look at your verses in your reply to me ... they are all to certain individuals or to a group known to the writer of the Epistle and you should be able to see that those lines do not apply to all --- as we can't predict who among us may fall from believing or faith before they die or who have made just a confession of faith but they weren't sincere at all at the time or it was just a mental assent and not from their heart - as Paul did mention that many will and Jesus also declared so.

And you cannot say that you've never heard or known of anyone that fell away from faith in Christ or you're living in a very protected world of your own out there somewhere.

Your one liners don't convince anyone but those that already are one-liner-believers as well. Pick & choose only your favorites and drop the rest - even if it is half of the book.

You Don't and Can't Quote The Whole of The New Testament and neither can those that agree with you and that's rejecting The Word of God.

I, as well as the others, Do believe and have posted that we Know that we are Saved by Grace through Faith - BUT with that grace and faith comes OBEDIENCE TO ALL OF THE WORDS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.

Since you enlarge your font, change colors & go bold - I have to capitalize etc to try to show you what you are bucking against....


YOU ARE KICKING AGAINST ANY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT ["THE WORD OF GOD"] THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH "WORKS, OBEDIENCE or COMMANDMENTS" - EVEN THOUGH, THOSE TYPE VERSES ARE EASILY HALF OF THE NEW TESTAMENT AND NOT JUST ALL CORRECTIONS AGAINST GOING BACK UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES FOR JUSTIFICATION - BUT IT ALSO CONTAINS NEW TESTAMENT 'COMMANDS' - COMMANDMENTS - WORKS AND OBEDIENCE POINTED RIGHT AT US - "BELIEVERS" - THOSE ALREADY SAVED AND THOSE ARE THE VERSES THAT YOU HAVE SPIT-OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, MIND, SPIRIT AND LIFE, HERE ON THIS FORUM -- SO YOU'VE THROWN AWAY "THE WORD OF GOD" AS A WHOLE AND THAT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR ANYONE OF US TO DO -- BECAUSE HE 'IS' THE WORD OF GOD AND REJECTING 'HIS' WORDS IS REJECTING HIM!




Damnable heresy that Jesus, Paul, John, Jude, James and Peter all told & warned us about.
Nothing new under the sun.
Slice and dice the New Testament and just keep what parts you like, despite that every Word in it is HIS.
Senseless to force this topic any longer when it's HIS WORDS that are being sliced, diced & disposed of.

 

[Karraster]

What I posted to you was correct grammar of those verses that I gave -- but what you're doing is coming back with verses that are conversations between, Jesus or Paul or others from Acts that are to an INDIVIDUAL or a Church that the Apostle was familiar with, as Galatia, etc. ... and you only quote one verse and never full context and Never a COMMAND that's found in the N.T. besides 'maybe' you might claim 'love' - but as far as living a life of His love for all mankind and especially the household of faith - are you really? Only you can answer that -- as well as the rest of us.

Look at your verses in your reply to me ... they are all to certain individuals or to a group known to the writer of the Epistle and you should be able to see that those lines do not apply to all --- as we can't predict who among us may fall from believing or faith before they die or who have made just a confession of faith but they weren't sincere at all at the time or it was just a mental assent and not from their heart - as Paul did mention that many will and Jesus also declared so.

And you cannot say that you've never heard or known of anyone that fell away from faith in Christ or you're living in a very protected world of your own out there somewhere.

Your one liners don't convince anyone but those that already are one-liner-believers as well. Pick & choose only your favorites and drop the rest - even if it is half of the book.

You Don't and Can't Quote The Whole of The New Testament and neither can those that agree with you and that's rejecting The Word of God.

I, as well as the others, Do believe and have posted that we Know that we are Saved by Grace through Faith - BUT with that grace and faith comes OBEDIENCE TO ALL OF THE WORDS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.

Since you enlarge your font, change colors & go bold - I have to capitalize etc to try to show you what you are bucking against....


YOU ARE KICKING AGAINST ANY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT ["THE WORD OF GOD"] THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH "WORKS, OBEDIENCE or COMMANDMENTS" - EVEN THOUGH, THOSE TYPE VERSES ARE EASILY HALF OF THE NEW TESTAMENT AND NOT JUST ALL CORRECTIONS AGAINST GOING BACK UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES FOR JUSTIFICATION - BUT IT ALSO CONTAINS NEW TESTAMENT 'COMMANDS' - COMMANDMENTS - WORKS AND OBEDIENCE POINTED RIGHT AT US - "BELIEVERS" - THOSE ALREADY SAVED AND THOSE ARE THE VERSES THAT YOU HAVE SPIT-OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, MIND, SPIRIT AND LIFE, HERE ON THIS FORUM -- SO YOU'VE THROWN AWAY "THE WORD OF GOD" AS A WHOLE AND THAT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR ANYONE OF US TO DO -- BECAUSE HE 'IS' THE WORD OF GOD AND REJECTING 'HIS' WORDS IS REJECTING HIM!




Damnable heresy that Jesus, Paul, John, Jude, James and Peter all told & warned us about.
Nothing new under the sun.
Slice and dice the New Testament and just keep what parts you like, despite that every Word in it is HIS.
Senseless to force this topic any longer when it's HIS WORDS that are being sliced, diced & disposed of.

Well said my friend, well said!

 

[Mitspa]

OSAS is not true....because its clear that a person that turns from grace back to be justified by the law is in danger of perdition and worse that that...they cannot be restored after they have tasted to goodness of God and reject that goodness.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Hizikyah]

OSAS is not true....because its clear that a person that turns from grace back to be justified by the law is in danger of perdition and worse that that...they cannot be restored after they have tasted to goodness of God and reject that goodness.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

What if they turn from grace to being a servant of sin?

are they still saved?

 

[Mitspa]

What if they turn from grace to being a servant of sin?

are they still saved?

That's what I said they turn from grace back to the law..."the strength of sin" The bible calls that "willful" sin.

 

[Hizikyah]

What if they turn from grace to being a servant of sin?

are they still saved?

That's what I said they turn from grace back to the law..."the strength of sin" The bible calls that "willful" sin.

OK lets try this again.

What if after accepting grace they start lying, stealing, and committing sexual immorality?

are they still saved?

 

[Mitspa]

OK lets try this again.

What if after accepting grace they start lying, stealing, and committing sexual immorality?

are they still saved?

Well if they have the real grace of God cannot do these things...its impossible because God only gives grace to the humble...Grace is the Spirit...the Spirit of Grace...you cannot have it and be in the pride and lust of the flesh.

No what a believer who does these things needs is to know the true grace of God...not some doctrine in a religious group.

 

[newbirth]

And since salvation is instant, it does not require constant believing to receive salvation, though once a man does trust the Lord, there is no indication that He ever stops that basic trust for salvation, though he may fail to trust in some concrete situation.

this is a clear indication of one stopping that basic trust and.....one of constant believing......
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.



The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

transition is instant (permanent or temporary)position is determined by your actions..


Hebrews 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Hizikyah]

That's what I said they turn from grace back to the law..."the strength of sin" The bible calls that "willful" sin.

It seems like you are teaching that the most evil thing man can do is read "do not kill" and think, I should not kill.....

 

[Mitspa]

It seems like you are teaching that the most evil thing man can do is read "do not kill" and think, I should not kill.....

Well In the eyes of God the people who are self-righteous hypocrites are children of the devil. And those who reject the grace He has shown in Christ are worthy of the destruction that is coming upon them.

 

[Hizikyah]

Well In the eyes of God the people who are self-righteous hypocrites are children of the devil. And those who reject the grace He has shown in Christ are worthy of the destruction that is coming upon them.

So does reading "do not kill" and thinking, I should not kill.....

make one a self-righteous hypocrite?

 

[Mitspa]

So does reading "do not kill" and thinking, I should not kill.....

make one a self-righteous hypocrite?

You don't understand...without the love that comes from Gods grace and Spirit, you are a murderer already in the eyes of God. If you don't love as Christ commanded you are already guilty. And looking to the law causes sinful passions in you such as hate and lust...

 

[Hizikyah]

You don't understand...without the love that comes from Gods grace and Spirit, you are a murderer already in the eyes of God. If you don't love as Christ commanded you are already guilty. And looking to the law causes sinful passions in you such as hate and lust...

I will try to explain/ask in a different way.

If someone reads the Instructions of the Creator and in some way, shape, or form thinks that those Instructions are solid and right teaching, are they then a self-righteous hypocrite?

 

[newbirth]

Well if they have the real grace of God cannot do these things...its impossible because God only gives grace to the humble...Grace is the Spirit...the Spirit of Grace...you cannot have it and be in the pride and lust of the flesh.

No what a believer who does these things needs is to know the true grace of God...not some doctrine in a religious group.

we are saved by grace...which is offered to all men....some receive it in vain....
Ephesians 4:7
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

2 Corinthians 6:1
We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

 

[Hizikyah]

Luke 11:28
"But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of Yah and observe it."


James (Yaaqob) 1:12
"Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which Yah has promised to those who love him."

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Revelation 22:7
"Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

But you seem to they are say cursed....

Well In the eyes of God the people who are self-righteous hypocrites are children of the devil. And those who reject the grace He has shown in Christ are worthy of the destruction that is coming upon them.

So does reading "do not kill" and thinking, I should not kill.....

make one a self-righteous hypocrite?

 

[AtonedFor]

Your works-for-salvation is diametrically opposed to what the word of God says, particular prophet (e.g., Paul) is unimportant.

:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Again, I must reveal exactly who in the Ephesian church Paul was writing to:

1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

And ditto to the faithful ones in the church at Colossae.

From the whole of the NT, you need to resolve what being "faithful" means.

Does it mean just to have received the indwelling Holy Spirit?

Or, does it mean something more than just being a BAC?

How about being faithful to the sayings, teachings, commands, etc. of Jesus, and Paul, and ...

 

[newbirth]

You don't understand...without the love that comes from Gods grace and Spirit, you are a murderer already in the eyes of God. If you don't love as Christ commanded you are already guilty. And looking to the law causes sinful passions in you such as hate and lust...

and how does Christ teach us to love?.....don't steal,don't coveth, don't kill,but be generous, merciful,caring and just...that is not looking to the law....it is establishing the law...it does not make you hate or lust....men do that when they are drawn away from Christ