It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Atwood said:
Verse 27 does not say anything about anyone perishing. Scripture is clear:

I give them eternal life & the shall NEVER perish.

vs 27 does not contradict.

Should not perish, but have everlasting life!
Click to expand...

Verse 27 tells who God holds in His hand and why they will no perish and verse 27 says nothing about eternal security.

Men are faithful in their hearing and following Christ and God in turn is faithful to those sheep in not allowing them to be snatched out of His hand.

Therefore the reason you omit verse 27.
 
SeaBass said:
I used nothing unbiblical.....must one believe or not to be saved?

If one must believe to be saved then that makes belief a condition to being saved or belief is a term that must be met to be saved.
Click to expand...

What? this just sounds like double talk? Its been said over and over that we saved by grace through faith... I have made the point that faith does not "doubt"....to demand that others have a certain level of doubt to be saved by faith is just and failure by some to understand real faith.
 
newbirth said:
notice by grace through faith ....not by wishful thinking...and where do you get the idea of doubt salvation to be saved by faith?...I do wish you would read and understand...
Click to expand...

Like I said it may seem like you are just in wishful thinking but some of us know we are saved and dont doubt it....that's called real faith.
 
Wow! Thanks. I've been resisting sin for 40 years....all for nothing. Break out the beer, the porn and wild wild women!
 
Yet said:
Wow! Thanks. I've been resisting sin for 40 years....all for nothing. Break out the beer, the porn and wild wild women!
Click to expand...

Sounds like you could be a slave to sin? A real believer don't even think that way! If you are lusting after these things maybe you don't have what the bible says you really should have?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mitspa said:
What? this just sounds like double talk? Its been said over and over that we saved by grace through faith... I have made the point that faith does not "doubt"....to demand that others have a certain level of doubt to be saved by faith is just and failure by some to understand real faith.
Click to expand...


Cutting to the chase, what the External Securists here are doing is trying to avoid saying that one must believe in order to be saved for that makes being saved conditional upon believing. So if being saved is conditional upon believing that means one can quit believing and lose that salvation that was conditioned upon believing.

This is why I cannot get a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer to my question: Must one believe in order for Christ to save him?
 
Mitspa said:
Like I said it may seem like you are just in wishful thinking but some of us know we are saved and dont doubt it....that's called real faith.
Click to expand...


Problem with that way of thinking though Mitspa, is there are many out there who think the same way as you. That they are saved and don't doubt it, but then when it comes to judgment a lot of them will be wailing and gnashing at their teeth because then they will realize they were actually following a false doctrine.

Like a false doctrine that you can take and cancel out or not obey all or part of what Jesus said, or another that says that the Holy Spirit does not convict a believer when they sin, when the bible in Hebrews says it does, and another that refuses Paul's teachings that sin can make a believer impure again if they do not repent or keep their confession. There are many ways to falsify the true doctrine, and most of it consists of taking away or adding to the word.
 
SeaBass said:
Cutting to the chase, what the External Securists here are doing is trying to avoid saying that one must believe in order to be saved for that makes being saved conditional upon believing. So if being saved is conditional upon believing that means one can quit believing and lose that salvation that was conditioned upon believing.

This is why I cannot get a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer to my question: Must one believe in order for Christ to save him?
Click to expand...
What!!! who has even suggested that faith is not needed? can you post that or are you just trying to deflect from the real issue? Being that those who demand others "doubt" salvation ...do not understand faith. How much doubt do we have to add to our faith before some of you can call it faith? Let me guess...the same doubt you have?
 
kennethcadwell said:
Problem with that way of thinking though Mitspa, is there are many out there who think the same way as you. That they are saved and don't doubt it, but then when it comes to judgment a lot of them will be wailing and gnashing at their teeth because then they will realize they were actually following a false doctrine.

Like a false doctrine that you can take and cancel out or not obey all or part of what Jesus said, or another that says that the Holy Spirit does not convict a believer when they sin, when the bible in Hebrews says it does, and another that refuses Paul's teachings that sin can make a believer impure again if they do not repent or keep their confession. There are many ways to falsify the true doctrine, and most of it consists of taking away or adding to the word.
Click to expand...
Look ..you can have all the doubts you want and call that faith...but its not...its doubt! I know faith and I know real faith when I see it...I have not seen anyone on this thread that should doubt there salvation except those who are claiming to be under the law (which is not of faith) and demand that others share their doubts.
 
Atwood said:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Click to expand...
Thou (and many others) just don't get it, do you?
It all hinges on exactly WHO "His people" are!

And the NT explains this, if you have eyes to see.
Ears to hear might help also.
 
Mitspa said:
What!!! who has even suggested that faith is not needed? can you post that or are you just trying to deflect from the real issue? Being that those who demand others "doubt" salvation ...do not understand faith. How much doubt do we have to add to our faith before some of you can call it faith? Let me guess...the same doubt you have?
Click to expand...


It is not about imposing doubt on people, which is the wrong way to look at things.
What me and some others have done is exactly what Jesus and especially Paul is give warnings to those who call themselves believers. They both give lists of things that would be a part of a believers life, and things that can not be part of a believers life. As believers we can not ignore those things, and not show and teach others those same things. Doing so would be improper, and a clear showing of a lack of love for others who are truly seeking out the Lord.
We are not called to uncleanness, but to holiness. And in that holiness in our walk in the Spirit to perfection comes warnings, convictions, and chastising by the Lord.
 
You guys who are trying to "earn" salvation are not supposed to have confidence and assurance in salvation...because your rejecting the true faith and the truth of Gods words.....you should doubt your salvation!


Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
 
2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."
 
kennethcadwell said:
It is not about imposing doubt on people, which is the wrong way to look at things.
What me and some others have done is exactly what Jesus and especially Paul is give warnings to those who call themselves believers. They both give lists of things that would be a part of a believers life, and things that can not be part of a believers life. As believers we can not ignore those things, and not show and teach others those same things. Doing so would be improper, and a clear showing of a lack of love for others who are truly seeking out the Lord.
We are not called to uncleanness, but to holiness. And in that holiness in our walk in the Spirit to perfection comes warnings, convictions, and chastising by the Lord.
Click to expand...
You guys have no place of authority to teach anyone anything.. lol and I see no evidence that you understand these things you try to teach to others....
 
Mitspa said:
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Click to expand...
Yup, the starting part is to believe in, trust, appreciate, etc. God's righteousness!

Butski, the "working out" part (re: Paul) is explained in the (what?) 10 verses that say:
We must work/practice righteousness to remain being considered
to be righteous in God's eyes (not your eyes)!

However, I'ze beatin' a dead cow ... 'cause you've seen these verses already!

From one alive cow to a dead one: Mooooooo
 
Mitspa said:
Look ..you can have all the doubts you want and call that faith...but its not...its doubt! I know faith and I know real faith when I see it...I have not seen anyone on this thread that should doubt there salvation except those who are claiming to be under the law (which is not of faith) and demand that others share their doubts.
Click to expand...


My point was that just because you think you are secure in your faith and saved, does not mean you are actually saved.
If the way you are walking does not match up with scripture then you are not a child of God.

No repentance, no baptism, no confession, no forgiveness, no helping of others in need, no attempt to abstain from sin, no conviction when you sin, no feeling of Godly sorrow when you sin, continuing to walk in the same sins day in and day out.
If you feel that you don't need or don't feel any of these things in your walk then you need to look at your walk in the faith and correct yourself in the areas that you are lacking. Paul says if you are lacking in your faith, then you are illegitimate and not sons of God.

It is not about causing doubt, it is about showing love to our fellow brothers and sisters and helping them to correct the ways they are still walking contrary to the word. A mere belief does not save anybody, only a faith in which you are a hearer and a doer of what the Lord Jesus Christ said is a true faith.
 
AtonedFor said:
Yup, the starting part is to believe in, trust, appreciate, etc. God's righteousness!

Butski, the "working out" part (re: Paul) is explained in the (what?) 10 verses that say:
We must work/practice righteousness to remain being considered
to be righteous in God's eyes (not your eyes)!

However, I'ze beatin' a dead cow ... 'cause you've seen these verses already!

From one alive cow to a dead one: Mooooooo
Click to expand...
Wow you sound so "spiritual" you must be one of those Gods has sent here to correct all us who actually believe and doubt not! lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back