I am a Baha'i. Like to know understanding of Christians on Luke 3:3-6, Isaiah 40:3-5

posthuman · Jan 8, 2015

yes!!

and having been a Gentile and stranger to God, how ridiculously glad i am for it!! the Lord sets the prisoners free, the Lord reveals Himself to a people who did not look for Him and calls out of strange nations a people to Himself!

I will lay waste mountains and hills,
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn the rivers into islands,
and dry up the pools.
And I will lead the blind
in a way that they do not know,
in paths that they have not known
I will guide them.
I will turn the darkness before them into light,
the rough places into level ground.
These are the things I do,
and I do not forsake them.
(Isaiah 42:15-16)

God does these things - God makes the paths of the people of a crooked nation straight, and opens the eyes of citizens of the kingdom of the blind

a double portion, judgement and mercy - John was sent to the Jews, who had been separated to God, and Christ has come that all of us, Jew and Gentile, can be redeemed and regenerated, justified and sanctified, adopted into Abraham and into heaven!

ISeeYou · Jan 8, 2015

Way to go! He sure is Posthuman.

Moses wrote of me Jesus said, its really jammed packed with awesomeness.

Neither He or His words ever get old either, may God richly bless you in Jesus Christ the Lord

Angela53510 · Jan 8, 2015

thebesttrees said:

1. The wilderness is the area south of Jersualem, around the Dead Sea, possibly the geographical place called the Wilderness of Zin. (Very barren and dry) It was the place where John and the sect called the Essenes lived.
2. This is a reference to Proverbs 3:5-6, whereby trusting in the Lord (YHWH) makes one's path straight.
3. Probably a metaphor for a long time. Because valleys do get filled up with soil over time.
4. The process of erosion? Again, a metaphor. Bible language is often symbolic, a reflection of the culture.
5. In both Greek and Hebrew, path is a metaphor for our journey or walk with God. It is a word found often in instructions about how to follow God and live righteously. Derach or דֶּרֶךְ in Hebrew meaning "the course of life," or ""the path of God's appointment." It has to do with the moral action or character of God, by which God spiritually makes the crooked parts of our life straight through the power of the Holy Spirit as we walk with Jesus Christ.
6. Jesus Christ makes the rough ways smooth.
7. This is a prophecy. When Jesus return, all flesh will see him and the salvation of God. NOT all will be saved.

"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Phil. 2:10-11

"for it is written,“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.” Romans 14:11

This passage is not a prediction of the the founder of the OP's faith Bahá'u'lláh

Jackson123 · Jan 8, 2015

thebesttrees said:

These what I believe

1. Wilderness is a place that hard to find the water. The water is symbol of the word of God.
So the wilderness is an community that doesn't know or doesn't practice the word of God. It may have the bible, but not practice honestly, Pharisees is the example

2. I believe in this case, John introduce Jesus, Make easier to people to know who He is.

3. I believe this talk about level of society. there is low class and upper class citizen, that must not happen. every body is the same level in the eyes of God.

4. Like No 3 upper class citizen must not look down to the lower class, to make it level the upper must down and the lower must up.

5. the crook will be straight if he or she accept Jesus as a vine abide to the branch, it will produce good fruit.

6. smooth mean easier for walk. by introduce Jesus, make easier for people to know Jesus.

7. I believe the coming of Jesus prophecies in the OT away before it happen. And John is one of the sign, Seeing and analyze what John doing will make the student of OT see who is Jesus.

thebesttrees · Jan 8, 2015

VioletReigns said:

How, you ask? Nobody can tell you how paths are made straight, how the crooked is made straight, how valleys are filled, how mountains are brought low, how the rough is made smooth. Nobody on earth, that is. By God can! Only when we repent and find forgiveness in Christ Jesus our Savior and Lord are these things made reality to us. But to explain them, no man can. It is by the miracle of grace in Jesus Christ that these things can be. That the flesh can see the Salvation of God in Jesus Christ.

I know that the Bahá'í faith believes that Jesus was only a messenger delivering divine visions. That is not correct. Jesus cannot be a divine messenger as He proclaimed He and God are One and the same. Either Jesus was the son of God, the Savior of the world, or He was a confused mad man to proclaim such things. It is impossible for Him to be only a messenger.

I can tell you that once I was blind, and now I see. Once I was lost, but now I'm found. Once I was dead in sin, but I'm now alive in Christ Jesus my Lord. How? Only by the grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I pray the Lord Jesus Himself enlighten you to the Truth, my friend.

Thank you VioletReigns for sharing your views with me.

thebesttrees · Jan 8, 2015

ISeeYou said:

Thank you Iseeyou for sharing the scriptures. I am very grateful.

thebesttrees · Jan 8, 2015

posthuman said:

Thank you posthuman for your input. it has helped me have a better grasp of your understanding of the verses. On verse 7, I do not understand your explanation fully. This was somehow fulfilled at the time of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ about 2000 years ago, and so why do you suggest that it supposed to happen in the future? Are you saying that verse 7 still awaits fulfillment?

thebesttrees · Jan 8, 2015

Angela53510 said:

1. The wilderness is the area south of Jersualem, around the Dead Sea, possibly the geographical place called the Wilderness of Zin. (Very barren and dry) It was the place where John and the sect called the Essenes lived.
2. This is a reference to Proverbs 3:5-6, whereby trusting in the Lord (YHWH) makes one's path straight.
3. Probably a metaphor for a long time. Because valleys do get filled up with soil over time.
4. The process of erosion? Again, a metaphor. Bible language is often symbolic, a reflection of the culture.
5. In both Greek and Hebrew, path is a metaphor for our journey or walk with God. It is a word found often in instructions about how to follow God and live righteously. Derach or דֶּרֶךְ in Hebrew meaning "the course of life," or ""the path of God's appointment." It has to do with the moral action or character of God, by which God spiritually makes the crooked parts of our life straight through the power of the Holy Spirit as we walk with Jesus Christ.
6. Jesus Christ makes the rough ways smooth.
7. This is a prophecy. When Jesus return, all flesh will see him and the salvation of God. NOT all will be saved.

"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Phil. 2:10-11

"for it is written,“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.” Romans 14:11

This passage is not a prediction of the the founder of the OP's faith Bahá'u'lláh

Thank you Angela53510. Your introduction of "long time" adds another helpful dimension to my understanding. I am not sure why when it comes to question 7 you have mentioned that it still awaits fulfillment. Why would Luke quote Isaiah to confirm John's mission if it was not fulfilled during his time?

thebesttrees · Jan 8, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

1. John preached in the wilderness 2 John cleared the way for Messiah 3 Every valley being filled is symbolic of those who humble themselves as being filled with the Truth. 4 The mountains being brought low are those who do not humble themselves to the message and are cut off. 5 The crooked ways are the sinful ways of man being corrected by repentance from sin. 6 The rough ways made smooth means those who had a rough understanding in the word of God would be polished like a precious stone is once rough, and then polished. 7 "All flesh" refers to the Gentiles, who will also see the salvation of God through Jesus Christ.

Thank you InSpiritInTruth. Your explanation is very illuminating. I thank you again.

InSpiritInTruth · Jan 8, 2015

thebesttrees said:

Always happy to share the good news of Jesus Christ, peace.

Angela53510 · Jan 8, 2015

thebesttrees said:

Sorry, I forgot to add it is a double prophecy. So when Isaiah prophecied it, it was about John's mission, but it also looked forward to fulfillment when Jesus returns at the end of the age.

thebesttrees · Jan 8, 2015

Angela53510 said:

Thank you Angela53510. So how did ALL EYES SEE salvation in the first fulfillment at the time of John?

posthuman · Jan 8, 2015

with Jesus came salvation for all flesh - for the whole world, Jew and Gentile. through Christ and what He did the ungodly from the whole world can be justified - He made one sacrifice sufficient for all sin.
so even us, 2,000 years later, when we see the Salvation of God, we are looking back to Him at the cross and the empty tomb. for all time before He was made flesh and incarnate among men, all who looked to the Salvation of God were looking forward to Him. in that the work of God was complete in the life, death and resurrection of Christ, all flesh see God's Salvation in Him and at that time.

but i believe just as Angela, that "seeing" salvation is not the same as receiving it, and that the fullness of that Word spoken is yet to come - because first the gospel of Christ was to the Jews, and then to the whole world. the apprehension of the mystery revealed in Christ wasn't instantaneous across the earth. but Jesus came first in meekness to heal and forgive, and will come again in power to judge and reward - at that time all that lived and does live will know that He is the Salvation of God - and will comprehend how that salvation was worked when He came born as a man.

even though that is at a future time, it is looking back to that time.

Jesus isn't just a manifestation of the Salvation of God that points toward a future rest. He is that salvation of God, incarnate - and He is that salvation revealed to all mankind. the very same that will return to redeem what He has purchased

Ariel82 · Jan 8, 2015

thebesttrees said:

How did ALL FLESH SEE THE SALVATION OF GOD at the time of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ?

"the Salvation of God' refers to when Jesus was born as a babe in human flesh. Jesus is God's answer, He died for the remission of our sins.

"all flesh" refers to the humans and animals who could physically see and touch Jesus while He walked on the Earth.

John the Baptist was born 7 months before Jesus to a woman in her old age who was thought to be barren. John also spent his childhood in the desert/wilderness eating honey and locust and no meat.

Isaiah 40:3-5
The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight in the desert[a]
A highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be exalted
And every mountain and hill brought low;
The crooked places shall be made straight
And the rough places smooth;
5 The glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
And all flesh shall see it together;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

I think the "valley" refers to the humble and the "mountains" refers to the prideful.

"crooked paths" refers to false teachings of the current priests: Pharisees and scribes who lead the people away from God into man made rituals that only wash the outside and never touches the heart of sin, greed, selfishness and anger.

"rough places made smooth" means God will remove the stumbling blocks and the veil that keeps people from seeing how the Old testament prophecies refer to Jesus and GOd's real plan of salvation for humanity from our sins.

Psalm 37:11
But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit theearth.

thebesttrees · Jan 9, 2015

posthuman said:

with Jesus came salvation for all flesh - for the whole world, Jew and Gentile. through Christ and what He did the ungodly from the whole world can be justified - He made one sacrifice sufficient for all sin.
so even us, 2,000 years later, when we see the Salvation of God, we are looking back to Him at the cross and the empty tomb. for all time before He was made flesh and incarnate among men, all who looked to the Salvation of God were looking forward to Him. in that the work of God was complete in the life, death and resurrection of Christ, all flesh see God's Salvation in Him and at that time.

but i believe just as Angela, that "seeing" salvation is not the same as receiving it, and that the fullness of that Word spoken is yet to come - because first the gospel of Christ was to the Jews, and then to the whole world. the apprehension of the mystery revealed in Christ wasn't instantaneous across the earth. but Jesus came first in meekness to heal and forgive, and will come again in power to judge and reward - at that time all that lived and does live will know that He is the Salvation of God - and will comprehend how that salvation was worked when He came born as a man.

even though that is at a future time, it is looking back to that time.

Jesus isn't just a manifestation of the Salvation of God that points toward a future rest. He is that salvation of God, incarnate - and He is that salvation revealed to all mankind. the very same that will return to redeem what He has purchased

Thank you posthuman. So if I understand it correctly, in your view SEEING is not so much seeing with the physical eyes but rather has a very deep meaning to it.

thebesttrees · Jan 9, 2015

Ariel82 said:

Thank you Ariel82. I have difficulty understanding your position as ALL FLESH should imply a very broad meaning and not simply those people and animals that saw Jesus physically. There is a reason that the verse uses the word ALL and not another word like "some". Besides, of what benefit is it to prophecy that animals will also see Jesus? How can an animal claim that it has seen Jesus as animals do not talk and write as humans do!

InSpiritInTruth · Jan 9, 2015

All flesh seeing the salvation of God, is Christ being preached as a light to the Gentile nations by His apostles and disciples.

Isaiah 42:6
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 60:3
And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Luke 2:32
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Acts 13:47
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

thebesttrees · Jan 9, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

All flesh seeing the salvation of God, is Christ being preached as a light to the Gentile nations by His apostles and disciples.

Isaiah 42:6
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 60:3
And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Luke 2:32
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Acts 13:47
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Thank you InSpiritInTruth. I have a deeper appreciation for the verses now. I would also like to add, from what I have understood so far, that SEEing also implies "believing" and "acceptance".

posthuman · Jan 9, 2015

thebesttrees said:

yes, it's like the world saw men walk on the moon in 1969 -- not everyone saw it on that day, and decades later people are being born who didn't witness it at that very time, but everyone who sees man taking the first steps on the moon looks back at that time. some people don't believe it, even though they see it. perhaps one day in the future we will go back to the moon, and the evidence of our first trips there will be obvious so that no one can say it isn't true - in a deeper sense when it is plainly shown, proven beyond all doubt, then "all flesh" will see that we went to the moon - but still looking back to 1969.

the same way, when Christ walked among us as a man, the salvation of God was revealed to all people. some hear and don't believe -- but also at a future time, He will come again in power and glory, and everyone, even those who don't believe He came the first time, will "see" -- and know that salvation was revealed when He took up the cross.

as in this:

"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him";
and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.
(Revelation 1:7)

the people will mourn because of Him, because they will know He is salvation, and that they have rejected Him when He first appeared.

thebesttrees · Jan 9, 2015

posthuman said:

yes, it's like the world saw men walk on the moon in 1969 -- not everyone saw it on that day, and decades later people are being born who didn't witness it at that very time, but everyone who sees man taking the first steps on the moon looks back at that time. some people don't believe it, even though they see it. perhaps one day in the future we will go back to the moon, and the evidence of our first trips there will be obvious so that no one can say it isn't true - in a deeper sense when it is plainly shown, proven beyond all doubt, then "all flesh" will see that we went to the moon - but still looking back to 1969.

the same way, when Christ walked among us as a man, the salvation of God was revealed to all people. some hear and don't believe -- but also at a future time, He will come again in power and glory, and everyone, even those who don't believe He came the first time, will "see" -- and know that salvation was revealed when He took up the cross.

as in this:

"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him";
and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.
(Revelation 1:7)

the people will mourn because of Him, because they will know He is salvation, and that they have rejected Him when He first appeared.

Dear posthuman, I really appreciate this point of view as it basically says that SEEing is like a continuum and will unfold over time.

I am a Baha'i. Like to know understanding of Christians on Luke 3:3-6, Isaiah 40:3-5

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