Gay and confused

[posthuman]

Why do you profess to believe in the bible's instructions when you make the choice to cherry pick verses about being against homosexuality and choose to ignore the instructions to murder adulteresses, which are found in the same book?

i really thought we had already been over this?

no one here is saying "homosexuality is perversion but adultery is OK"
and no one here is saying to drag either the deviants or the adulterers out and stone them.

what we're doing is affirming that we believe what the Judge of the world says is sin, is sin.

do you think we're picking on one sin over the other?
fine - pretend this whole conversation is about murder instead. now, if you were a leader in a church, and i was an elder in your church, and i told you i am a murderer and have no plans to repent of my murderings and consider murder not to be a bad thing at all, what? you going to defend my murdering? you going to tell me 'that's cool hey why don't i leave you in a position of authority as an example to all the weaker in the faith" ??

telling me that murder is not good is not the same as taking me out and stoning me to death.
telling me i should not murder people is not the same as rejecting me as a person.
maintaining that murder is contrary to righteousness, and showing me how the scripture says this is so, is not the same as "cherry picking" from the Bible.

 

[kaylagrl]

i really thought we had already been over this?

no one here is saying "homosexuality is perversion but adultery is OK"
and no one here is saying to drag either the deviants or the adulterers out and stone them.

what we're doing is affirming that we believe what the Judge of the world says is sin, is sin.

do you think we're picking on one sin over the other?
fine - pretend this whole conversation is about murder instead. now, if you were a leader in a church, and i was an elder in your church, and i told you i am a murderer and have no plans to repent of my murderings and consider murder not to be a bad thing at all, what? you going to defend my murdering? you going to tell me 'that's cool hey why don't i leave you in a position of authority as an example to all the weaker in the faith" ??

telling me that murder is not good is not the same as taking me out and stoning me to death.
telling me i should not murder people is not the same as rejecting me as a person.
maintaining that murder is contrary to righteousness, and showing me how the scripture says this is so, is not the same as "cherry picking" from the Bible.

Now there is a good point!!

 

[john832]

Hello I have been attending church on an off al my life but recently every Sunday plus bible studies mid week and other weekend convenctions for about 5 years, however I am also gay I know what the bible says about this, but I love going to church and reading the bible. I recently told the pastor I was gay I didn't want to mislead the church, I wanted to be honest so they accepted me for who I am not who they think I am. He told me I could no longer be a member or have any leaderships rolls in the church I understand and accept all that how ever one comment he made upset me and now I never want to go back to church the comment was being gay is no different to people who sleep around. I have never done that, you don't have to be gay to sleep around. my question is this normal reaction, Will I find a church that is wiling to accept me knowing I am gay?

I am sure that if you look around you will find a church that will accept you. The problem is that homosexuality is a sin and unless repented of, will send you to the Lake of Fire.

Being accepted by people means nothing, being accepted by God means everything.

 

[posthuman]

No. You just make me this way because you all want to kill his spirit!

there is a really big difference between "trying to kill someone's spirit"
and saying "hey, what you're doing there is leading to spiritual death"

if you found me sitting around drinking a bunch of poison, you'd be doing me a favor informing me that i'm drinking poison.
on the other hand you'd be assisting in my death if you knew i was poisoning myself and just patted me on the back and said 'cheers!'

 

[oldhermit]

there is a really big difference between "trying to kill someone's spirit"
and saying "hey, what you're doing there is leading to spiritual death"

if you found me sitting around drinking a bunch of poison, you'd be doing me a favor informing me that i'm drinking poison.
on the other hand you'd be assisting in my death if you knew i was poisoning myself and just patted me on the back and said 'cheers!'

You are never going to get them to understand this because they simply refuse to believe that homosexuality is sin and condemned by God.

 

[posthuman]

You are never going to get them to understand this because they simply refuse to believe that homosexuality is sin and condemned by God.

*sigh*

i think you are correct =\

 

[oldhermit]

*sigh*

i think you are correct =\

If you have not read through this post you should just to see the absurd arguments that have been offered in defense of homosexuality.

 

[john832]

there is a really big difference between "trying to kill someone's spirit"
and saying "hey, what you're doing there is leading to spiritual death"

if you found me sitting around drinking a bunch of poison, you'd be doing me a favor informing me that i'm drinking poison.
on the other hand you'd be assisting in my death if you knew i was poisoning myself and just patted me on the back and said 'cheers!'

You are never going to get them to understand this because they simply refuse to believe that homosexuality is sin and condemned by God.

*sigh*

i think you are correct =\

Read the tone of the OP, the poster is not asking if homosexuality is sin or whether he needs to change, he is looking for a church or a group that will accept him as gay.

Christ does not accept us just as we are, He commands us to change. He does not accept thieves, murderers, adulterers, or idol worshippers, He accepts repentant thieves, murderers, adulterers, and idol worshippers.

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."

 

[Bookends]

And punishable by execution according to OT Levitical law, stealing is a sin, but the punishment was restitution not death. Certain sins come with a bigger punishment. Now before the liberals go off the handle here, I'm NOT suggesting we execute people for sexual sin, just merely pointing out that homosexual is a serious sin and carried a bigger punishment then common sins.

this is not even remotely Biblical and you will have a hard time showing me where you dreamed this up at in the Bible.

SIN is SIN and it is not ranked, except for 1 and that is Blaspheming the Holy Ghost, which is simply unbelief in Jesus.

It is unbelief in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross that is the greatest SIN.

Here is the mind bending revelation for you on SIN:

A lost person has no idea what SIN is, because their mind as not been renewed, because their spirit still has no right standing with God, and their SIN nature dominates them. So here is the rub, if this young man is not born again, telling him he is living in SIN only adds to his confusion, Because the carnal mind is at enmity against God. He cannot understand spiritual things because his does not have the mind of Christ yet.

This is why so many fail at witnessing, because the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. How does a lost person spiritually discern things of God? That is one of the works of the Holy Ghost: To reprove the world of sin. That is his JOB not YOUR job.

Telling a person of the world they are living in SIN is like talking to a deaf person. I have never experienced a person truly coming to Jesus based on fear. Preaching hell fire and damnation never works on the lost, because all you do is appeal to a persons sense knowledge of fear and they respond to the message out of fear and not by the reproving of the Holy Spirit.

In my experiences, when a lost person comes to Jesus they have always told me they felt a Love they have never known, a mercy that convicted them and a sense of goodness from God they could not describe, because that goodness said you are free and I love you despite...... this lines up with Romans 2.4, it is the goodness of God that leads mean to repentance and that by truth and mercy iniquity is purged.

Once a person is born again, they receive right standing with the Father, through Christ and that relationship is restored and the spirit has connection with God. Sadly most of the Body stops there and then beats the snot out of people for not living right, but the bible states we must renew our mind, because your mind was conformed to the world and not by the Spirit of God.

It's not biblical huh, and I'm making it up...Let's take a look at Leviticus:

Chapter 20 (you have the punishment stated by God here for homosexuality):
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

So the punishment is death.

Ok, now lets see what Leviticus says about stealing: Chapter 6:

6 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “If a person sins and commits a trespass against the Lord by lying to his neighbor about what was delivered to him for safekeeping, or about a pledge, or about a robbery, or if he has extorted from his neighbor, 3 or if he has found what was lost and lies concerning it, and swears falsely—in any one of these things that a man may do in which he sins: 4 then it shall be, because he has sinned and is guilty, that he shall restore what he has stolen, or the thing which he has extorted, or what was delivered to him for safekeeping, or the lost thing which he found, 5 or all that about which he has sworn falsely. He shall restore its full value, add one-fifth more to it, and give it to whomever it belongs, on the day of his trespass offering.


So the punishment is restitution plus more.

Addition Scriptures:

Exodus 22:1
22 “If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep

Proverbs 6
30 People do not despise a thief
If he steals to satisfy himself when he is starving.
31 Yet when he is found, he must restore sevenfold;
He may have to give up all the substance of his house.

Jude 1:7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Acts 15
[h=3]The Jerusalem Decree[/h]22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas,[e] and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
23 They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”[f] —to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.[g] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
Farewell.

 

[Bookends]

this is not even remotely Biblical and you will have a hard time showing me where you dreamed this up at in the Bible.

SIN is SIN and it is not ranked, except for 1 and that is Blaspheming the Holy Ghost, which is simply unbelief in Jesus.

It is unbelief in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross that is the greatest SIN.

Here is the mind bending revelation for you on SIN:

A lost person has no idea what SIN is, because their mind as not been renewed, because their spirit still has no right standing with God, and their SIN nature dominates them. So here is the rub, if this young man is not born again, telling him he is living in SIN only adds to his confusion, Because the carnal mind is at enmity against God. He cannot understand spiritual things because his does not have the mind of Christ yet.

This is why so many fail at witnessing, because the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. How does a lost person spiritually discern things of God? That is one of the works of the Holy Ghost: To reprove the world of sin. That is his JOB not YOUR job.

Telling a person of the world they are living in SIN is like talking to a deaf person. I have never experienced a person truly coming to Jesus based on fear. Preaching hell fire and damnation never works on the lost, because all you do is appeal to a persons sense knowledge of fear and they respond to the message out of fear and not by the reproving of the Holy Spirit.

In my experiences, when a lost person comes to Jesus they have always told me they felt a Love they have never known, a mercy that convicted them and a sense of goodness from God they could not describe, because that goodness said you are free and I love you despite...... this lines up with Romans 2.4, it is the goodness of God that leads mean to repentance and that by truth and mercy iniquity is purged.

Once a person is born again, they receive right standing with the Father, through Christ and that relationship is restored and the spirit has connection with God. Sadly most of the Body stops there and then beats the snot out of people for not living right, but the bible states we must renew our mind, because your mind was conformed to the world and not by the Spirit of God.

This person claims to have some biblical knowledge and is insinuating being gay is ok. If you ask him if he's saved, I bet his answer would be yes. Being gay outside the church is one thing, accepting the behavior within the church family is another.

 

[Servant_of_God]

there is a really big difference between "trying to kill someone's spirit"
and saying "hey, what you're doing there is leading to spiritual death"

if you found me sitting around drinking a bunch of poison, you'd be doing me a favor informing me that i'm drinking poison.
on the other hand you'd be assisting in my death if you knew i was poisoning myself and just patted me on the back and said 'cheers!'

Another made up term, huh? If someone has a dead spirit, HOW ARE THEY LIVING? If you choose to drink a bottle labeled poison, sure I can try to stop you. It is lawful for you to do so. Highly unprofitable, but you can do it. It is also lawful for me to try and stop you which is highly profitable. Ultimately however, it is God's decision as it is Him who kills and makes alive.

 

[Servant_of_God]

I make you this way??? Really?? That's rich!! I can't make you anything. How you respond to ppl and posts is of your own volition. I offered to help him and teach him and that's your response. You might want to just be quiet for a while.

OP: God loves you. He created you in HIS IMAGE!! But your antennae is tuned incorrectly...and that can be changed!!
Maggie

I meant you as in plural and people. It was the media and the people who turned Michael Jackson into Wacko Jacko! You offered your advice (mainstream) and I have offered mine (I haven't seen one verbally fighting with me here in over a year). Let them make up their own minds.
You are correct. I am made in the image of God. This however, is my walk. Let me walk it accordingly.

 

[Servant_of_God]

Has nothing to do with what the preacher says.Its what the Bible says and homosexuality is wrong according to the Bible.End of story!

The bible also says that lying, idol worship and murder is an abomination to. Are you kicking yourself out of churches because of the things you do?

 

[kaylagrl]

The bible also says that lying, idol worship and murder is an abomination to. Are you kicking yourself out of churches because of the things you do?

So you are accusing me of being a liar,idol worshiper and murderer? Without knowing me? Come on now.You didnt see me say kick anyone out of the church did you? Nope!! Now if you are going to continue in the sin of being a homosexual then that is a different story.Or continue to be a liar or murderer etc. Cant continue in sin and be saved.You make it look like everyone in the church just continues in sin and are no different then someone not saved.We dont continue in ANY sin.We strive everyday to do right.Struggling with homosexuality is not the same as living a homosexual lifestyle.You didnt hear me say kick anyone out of church flaming spirit.

 

[oldhermit]

The bible also says that lying, idol worship and murder is an abomination to. Are you kicking yourself out of churches because of the things you do?

If these are sins for which I refuse to repent and correct then YES! I should be removed from the fellowship. This is by apostolic command.

 

[Quake10]

Im with Kaylagrl on this one! And though ive been struggling with something for 7 years (not homosexuality but something sorta related) i know its wrong and im trying to stop. Im not accepting my sin, i know its wrong. I want to stop. But it has been extremely hard for me, and ive had thoughts and questions if im really saved or not. But i believe that if i really try maybe one day with Gods help i will prevail. I believe God still loves me and if i died i will be in heaven. There is a difference between trying to stop, and accepting it and giving up. Kaylagrl, id appreciate if you would pray for me if you can.

 

[Servant_of_God]

You have just made an unjust judgement against me regarding with what I said. If I am involved with willfully sin and I state that it is ok with God to live this way, no matter what the sin is, then I would deserve to be "put OUT" if the church elders came to that conclusion. Paul did that with the Corinthian man who had sexual relations with his father's wife (his step mom). The problem you have isn't with me, it's with the Word of God.

PS. not all sins receive the same punishment, but all sins separate us from God.

A true believer who comes to God by repentance and faith in Christ's sacrifice does not continue to live in sin. That is willful sin. True believers' behaviors are being transformed into the likeness of Christ. If we are in Christ, we become like Christ, He changes our desires to align with His. This does not mean we are sinless, we still fall short, but a war between our flesh and spirit rages on and Christian have to battle the flesh on a daily bases with the help of the Holy Spirit who resides in us.

I am sorry about your dilemma, but it is clear that once some repents and turns to Christ they are a new creature, and we leave the old man behind and more forward in the new man. Perhaps you are not saved, or perhaps you are saved and still struggling with the spiritual war between your flesh and spirit. It is not my position to eternally judge you, but the bible, especially in 1 John (please read the whole book), states that if you abide in Christ you do not live in, or continue in, willful sin and if you do, you aren't abiding in Christ and He isn't in you.


1 John 2
Sin and the Child of God

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Praying for you!

So...... You state that he is a willful sinner, then state that those who willfully sin is NOT IN CHRIST and therefore NOT saved! These are YOUR words correct???

Then on top of that, you add more confusion and fire by saying that true believers are NOT sinless! So again in plain words, you are still a sinner but because he "willfully" sins in what you wouldn't approve of, you would kick him out to! Because he's willfully sinning unlike true Christian sinners!?!??? Confusion!

Matthew 12

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

 

[The_highwayman]

This person claims to have some biblical knowledge and is insinuating being gay is ok. If you ask him if he's saved, I bet his answer would be yes. Being gay outside the church is one thing, accepting the behavior within the church family is another.

Claiming Bible knowledge is not salvation. I knew the bible for years before conversion.

We had a lesbian, who was not in a current relationship and more towards the male side if you know what I mean, start coming to our church...I allowed her to stay and our church welcomed her with open arms...Her not her SIN, but Her...not one of my folks ever judged her, told her she was living in SIN, scolded her or separated from her...they simply loved her with the Love of Christ.

I could tell the messages were working because I could tell she was being undone by the love of the God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost.

Her salvation happened at a small connect group meeting in a home, led by, one of my very spiritually mature couples.
She asked they call me to come over as soon as she received Jesus.

She told me that for the 8 weeks she had been attending, she was consistently overwhelmed by a love she had never known.
I was unconditional and so deep that it made her undone. She wanted that love more and more.

She shared with us that night how as a child she had been beaten and sexually abused by men in her mothers life...by 13 she was homeless and working the streets as a prostitute and at 18 was taken in by the "mother" she never had, who got her into porn and taught her all about lesbian love and abuse. At 24 she was strung out on drugs and had been arrested for dealing and was on bail when she attempted suicide. 6 months after that attempt and with no hope, she wondered into our church and told us that she drove by the church for 20 minutes fighting God about going in. She finally said, fine I will go in, and if you are real God, the guy talking better have on a red and white striped shirt...and if says hey we are glad you are here, then I will know you real.

I was planning on wearing a blue shirt that night, but my wife had been worshiping God and praying before service and said, nope, wear the read and white striped shirt, so I did. I was in mid message when the door opened and she walked in and made her way to the front row. I stopped and said, hey, we are glad you are here! and continued.

That woman is 29 today , married with 2 kids, and with her husband runs a ministry that reaches out to teens engaged in porn production and prostitution.

 

[Servant_of_God]

If these are sins for which I refuse to repent and correct then YES! I should be removed from the fellowship. This is by apostolic command.

Let every man examine HIMSELF! I don't need you playing doctor with my salvation.

 

[oldhermit]

Let every man examine HIMSELF! I don't need you playing doctor with my salvation.

We are charged to confront one another about sinful behavior and if one refuses to correct that behavior we are instructed to remove that person from the body. This is to protect the integrity of the body and protect the body from evil influence.