THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen to this as well........it is quite simple and found within the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus and that being....

Genuine faith eternally saves, seals, justifies and sanctifies before God.....FOR EVER.....

Genuine faith will produce fruit...even if but one piece of fruit......

Works do not save, keep saved, produce salvation but rather are evidence of salvation.....

That is the difference......the bible states that faith saves.......and faith that saves will produce period!

Amen,

Again I must ask.. If you trust someone, and have faith in who and what they are, and that they will do what is good for you, how could you never do a work?

Abraham went to sacrifice his son, not to get anything from God, but because he trusted God to keep his promise, even if it meant raising his son from the dead.

Our true faith is tested, which produces perseverance, the more we obey God, the more we trust him.

but to say one can have faith and trust in God, yet NEVER do anything God says, that is just crazy! As james said, their faith is dead (non existent)

 

[Brainfreeze]

You'll stand before God with what you've written on this forum too, EG.


Obedience is what Jesus Himself preached from the Gospels to the Revelation and what you just posted is a pack of lies, not only against us that believe His Words on obedience - but you yourself are right now in the greatest rebellion of all --- all Liars and those that do not LOVE even their enemies are in grave danger.

I'm with you here COG, something just not right, lies, I don't know about, but everything he's ever typed said in the Messiahs name will be accounted for, rather if he's damned or not is between him and Yah, I pray for him along with a few others that seem pretty lost

 

[Brainfreeze]

Amen,

Again I must ask.. If you trust someone, and have faith in who and what they are, and that they will do what is good for you, how could you never do a work?

Abraham went to sacrifice his son, not to get anything from God, but because he trusted God to keep his promise, even if it meant raising his son from the dead.

Our true faith is tested, which produces perseverance, the more we obey God, the more we trust him.

but to say one can have faith and trust in God, yet NEVER do anything God says, that is just crazy! As james said, their faith is dead (non existent)

Seems like you preach both sides of the fence... either it's this " obey " or grace saves you and there's nothing you can do, which one ?

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen,

Again I must ask.. If you trust someone, and have faith in who and what they are, and that they will do what is good for you, how could you never do a work?

Abraham went to sacrifice his son, not to get anything from God, but because he trusted God to keep his promise, even if it meant raising his son from the dead.

Our true faith is tested, which produces perseverance, the more we obey God, the more we trust him.

but to say one can have faith and trust in God, yet NEVER do anything God says, that is just crazy! As james said, their faith is dead (non existent)

I take Jesus at his word and he said....

1. I will never leave thee nor forsake thee and by inspiration said...
2. He who begun a good work in you will finish it.......
3. If you believe and confess that belief you have eternal life....and eternal is exactly that ETERNAL!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seems like you preach both sides of the fence... either it's this " obey " or grace saves you and there's nothing you can do, which one ?

and I have no idea what your asking, could you rephrase. because it does not make any sense.

 

[dcontroversal]

and I have no idea what your asking, could you rephrase. because it does not make any sense.

He is confused about what you teach.....

1. Is it faith and nothing that you do other than faith for salvation or
2. You have to obey and have faith to be saved......

That is what I got out of it......maybe???

 

[notuptome]

Wrong, the Gospels, Epistles and very words of Jesus refute you.....

It didn't take you long to prove yourself. You have not because you ask amiss.

What have you done that God should be impressed?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Brainfreeze]

and I have no idea what your asking, could you rephrase. because it does not make any sense.

Does grace save you or obeying ? or both ?

 

[Keeper]

My brother the gospel is a radical thing and it is Gods word that tells us to be set free from the law. Its repeted so many times in the epistles that one would have to ignore the whole New Testament not to tell people to get out of Moses and into Christ...

But do you at least appreciate (or "see") how someone could be mislead by the word "freedom" as you use it above? Can you at least see that someone may deduct that they're free to "break" the Law? Say someone who isn't as mature as you.

I can totally appreciate the fact that you're trying to not be like the man who drank and forgot to share with others. I really do. However, the scenario I just depicted above (innocent folks being mislead by the worlds "free from the Law"), it's not just an imagination. It's something that has happened, in Churches out there, and probably still happening. And to quote the Lord himself:

If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!"

And for one last time, I will insist that Christ and Moses is not a matter of either or. We were not called upon to get out of Moses and into Christ, but rather to FULFILL Moses through Christ.

 

[notuptome]

God gave us power to become sons of God....how do you come up with...

Romans 6:14

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Did you miss the part where Jesus Christ is now Lord over all...all power is given to him...

Ephesians 6:6
Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

Philippians 1:1

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Revelation 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Romans 7:14-19

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Does grace save you or obeying ? or both ?

Go slow. Grace saves. Grace makes it so you are able to obey.

Mans works cannot flow up hill to God. Gods grace flows downward to man to lift man up and from man then flow works wrought through God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Does grace save you or obeying ? or both ?

grace saves me, because I could never do enough work, even if I was perfect from now until I died, to save myself.

I would still deserve eternal damnation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But do you at least appreciate (or "see") how someone could be mislead by the word "freedom" as you use it above? Can you at least see that someone may deduct that they're free to "break" the Law? Say someone who isn't as mature as you.

I can totally appreciate the fact that you're trying to not be like the man who drank and forgot to share with others. I really do. However, the scenario I just depicted above (innocent folks being mislead by the worlds "free from the Law"), it's not just an imagination. It's something that has happened, in Churches out there, and probably still happening. And to quote the Lord himself:



And for one last time, I will insist that Christ and Moses is not a matter of either or. We were not called upon to get out of Moses and into Christ, but rather to FULFILL Moses through Christ.

would you rather have them free from the law. and saved, Then have God explain to them what that means
or fall in legalism, and never be born of God?

 

[Brainfreeze]

grace saves me, because I could never do enough work, even if I was perfect from now until I died, to save myself.

I would still deserve eternal damnation.

So is obedience work ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So is obedience work ?

if your doing it to save yourself (recieve a reward) yes.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Go slow. Grace saves. Grace makes it so you are able to obey.

Mans works cannot flow up hill to God. Gods grace flows downward to man to lift man up and from man then flow works wrought through God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ok, I agree with a lot of what you post, but can you clarify a bit more Brother Roger... Can I still be a servant to self and say I'm under Gods grace to learn obedience ?

 

[Brainfreeze]

if your doing it to save yourself (recieve a reward) yes.

What if your just not doing it because it's the right thing!?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What if your just not doing it because it's the right thing!?

are you expecting God to save you because of "doing the right thing" (or allow you to keep your salvation?)

 

[Brainfreeze]

are you expecting God to save you because of "doing the right thing" (or allow you to keep your salvation?)

Being saved is a free " gift " through faith... No work there... Now saved being obedient " not doing sin " where's the work ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Being saved is a free " gift " through faith... No work there... Now saved being obedient " not doing sin " where's the work ?

if your saved, and being obedient because you trust your heavenly father, and not because you fear punishment or expect anything in return (true love does not ask, it gives)

then no, it is not a work in the term of a legalistic work