THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[kennethcadwell]

Hey eternal. Glad to have you as a defender of the true gospel...when I get home I will start a thread on 1 John And explain how a child in Christ acknowledeges their sin and how a adult understands that In Him. We have no sin.... one cannot be a sinner and justified by Christ at the same time...its impossible. But we do get things on our conscience and need thispromise to reassure our hearts. Especially as a babe in Christ to which John is speaking.

What do you two not understand about future sins are not covered until they are confessed and asked forgiveness of.
Both Paul and Peter say that only your past sins were cleansed. ( Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9 ) Future sins still have to be confessed and asked forgiveness of to be forgiven and covered by the Lord's blood.

 

[john832]

Hey eternal. Glad to have you as a defender of the true gospel...when I get home I will start a thread on 1 John And explain how a child in Christ acknowledeges their sin and how a adult understands that In Him. We have no sin.... one cannot be a sinner and justified by Christ at the same time...its impossible. But we do get things on our conscience and need thispromise to reassure our hearts. Especially as a babe in Christ to which John is speaking.

Interesting. Your are going to start a thread on I John and you say you have no sin...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This should be interesting.

 

[john832]

What do you two not understand about future sins are not covered until they are confessed and asked forgiveness of.
Both Paul and Peter say that only your past sins were cleansed. ( Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9 ) Future sins still have to be confessed and asked forgiveness of to be forgiven and covered by the Lord's blood.

Exactly, future sins are NOT sins until they are committed.

 

[john832]

What do you two not understand about future sins are not covered until they are confessed and asked forgiveness of.
Both Paul and Peter say that only your past sins were cleansed. ( Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9 ) Future sins still have to be confessed and asked forgiveness of to be forgiven and covered by the Lord's blood.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kennethcadwell again.

 

[kennethcadwell]

This post exposes a serious fallacy, that the law PRODUCES sin. WRONG! The Law defines sin, our human nature produces sin...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Now I would hope that this was simply a mistake, surely you would not intentionally obscure the truth.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

It is very interesting that those who teach the Law is done away don't give verses 12 and 14 much exposure, do they?

Yes and James was talking to believers here, not unbelievers.
He tells them that if temptation rises in a believers heart and they give into that lust, and let that sin over take them to where they live in it again it will lead them to death not eternal life.

Now this could not be possible if future sins are already covered before they are committed, confessed, and then asked forgiveness of.

 

[oldthennew]

living and staying in the Faith you have been given by grace brings the new Christian
to repentance, the eventual turning away from their condemning lifestyle.

a true Christian abhors anything in their life that mocks the love of Christ and
His sacrifice, and through this abhorring and will to change, our Father gives
them the strength and power to over-come and walk in the Light.
as it is written, 'I will write My Law upon their hearts'.
does this happen over-night? absolutely NOT, it is the life of our new-walk,
our new beginning.

 

[john832]

Hey eternal. Glad to have you as a defender of the true gospel...when I get home I will start a thread on 1 John And explain how a child in Christ acknowledeges their sin and how a adult understands that In Him. We have no sin.... one cannot be a sinner and justified by Christ at the same time...its impossible. But we do get things on our conscience and need thispromise to reassure our hearts. Especially as a babe in Christ to which John is speaking.

Did you miss the point about your daily prayer including asking forgiveness?

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

You surely don't think this is about finances do you?

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Are you telling us that you only have this occur once in your life?

 

[john832]

Yes and James was talking to believers here, not unbelievers.
He tells them that if temptation rises in a believers heart and they give into that lust, and let that sin over take them to where they live in it again it will lead them to death not eternal life.

Now this could not be possible if future sins are already covered before they are committed, confessed, and then asked forgiveness of.

Yes, he most certainly was writing to believers...

Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

This was not addressed to unbelievers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is not false Catholic dogma, the bible clearly says that you can get entangled and caught up in willful sin again that is not covered tell confessed and asked forgiveness of. Here are a few of them;
.

Then you are under law. not under grace.

You are not saved

You have not been redeemed from the curse of the law

You are not justified FREELY

You can post all the verses you want Ken, But if you do not declare Gods promises, and have them secure in your heart, they are meaningless.

God made an unconditional promise of a gift of eternal ownership of the land of Canaan to Israel. You even fight for this yourself.

Yet when it comes to God making a promise of eternal life to those who trust him, you deny it.

why is that?

 

[john832]

Don't worry much about the scriptures.

Oh trust me, he is not.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Then you are under law. not under grace.

You are not saved

You have not been redeemed from the curse of the law

You are not justified FREELY

You can post all the verses you want Ken, But if you do not declare Gods promises, and have them secure in your heart, they are meaningless.

God made an unconditional promise of a gift of eternal ownership of the land of Canaan to Israel. You even fight for this yourself.

Yet when it comes to God making a promise of eternal life to those who trust him, you deny it.

why is that?

Did you even read all the scriptures that I posted, especially from Paul and Peter who both say only past sins are covered.
I do declare God, and just like our Lord Jesus said the words that He spoke were from God.
This works with Paul and Peter, as what they say is from God as well through the Holy Spirit that is working in them.
They both said only past sins are forgiven, and future sins still have to be repented of / confessed / asked forgiveness of.
Nowhere in the bible does it say a one time repentance takes care of all.........

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have to go for now, but wanted to leave off with this.

The same small group of individuals who are so adamant about defending what Paul said, when the rest of us post a scripture from Paul that goes against what they have been taught. They scream foul your against God, and still refuse to actually look and read what we have posted from the man that they want to defend.

Paul in the bible says past sins covered.................They say that is not correct ( I guess Paul was lying )

Peter in the bible also says past sins covered..........They say that is not correct ( I guess Peter was lying to )

Jesus says if you don't forgive others of their sins, He will not forgive you of yours........They say their sins are forgiven no matter what they do ( I guess Jesus lied as well )

I am not going to call any one of those three a liar, especially not our Lord Jesus. If they say something I take it to heart as full truth and something that we should listen to and apply in our lives.

 

[Keeper]

Speaking of REPENTANCE; here are the 4 first and 4 last of the 95 Theses by Martin Luther. What do you think?

1. Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, when He said Poenitentiam agite, willed that the whole life of believers should be repentance.
2 This word cannot be understood to mean sacramental penance, i.e., confession and satisfaction, which is administered by the priests.
3. Yet it means not inward repentance only; nay, there is no inward repentance which does not outwardly work divers mortifications of the flesh.
4. The penalty, therefore, continues so long as hatred of self continues; for this is the true inward repentance, and continues until our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

[...]

92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Peace, peace," and there is no peace!
93. Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Cross, cross," and there is no cross!
94. Christians are to be exhorted that they be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, deaths, and hell;
95. And thus be confident of entering into heaven rather through many tribulations, than through the assurance of peace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Chastening yes we should all feel that if we have the Holy Spirit, and the sorrow for doing the sin.
The point though is do you then confess them and ask forgiveness of them, turning from it, or do you say I repented 35 years ago so they are covered. Because if it is the latter of your repentance of 35 years ago covered it, without confessing and asking forgiveness of it. Then that is not biblical, and they are not covered and forgiven.

lol..

Here is what you want me to do.

I admit and confess. Coveting my neighbors good fortune is a sin.

A year later, He gets a shiney new car. Even though I KNOW IT IS A SIN, And I KNOW GOD HAS Blessed me more than I deserve.

My flesh gets the best of me, and I covet his new car.

Now, because (against what I know to be true) I have lost salvation, I have been kicked out of my fathers family, I am an orphan on the street. I am again dead to Christ. And will remain that way, Unless I repent and confess that sin.

Really? Where does it say this?

Here is the fact.

I knew it was a sin, I knew God has blessed me already more than I deserve, but my flesh was weak. I stumbled and I fell.

God never kicked me out of his family. He has not stopped loving me, He is not going to demand I repent, when he knows I already did.

He will chastem me, Want me to admit my sin to him, and tell me to continue to go and continue to trust him, And if i fall again, he will be right there to pick me up. Although when he does, it may be painfull ( heb 3) but to continue to learn from his chastening, because that is how I will find life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, future sins are NOT sins until they are committed.

So then how did God pay for your future sin if he did not know they were going to be sin to begin with? since he died 2000 years ago.

God died for your sin up to the time you repented but not the ones after?

Do you even listen to what you say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes and James was talking to believers here, not unbelievers.
He tells them that if temptation rises in a believers heart and they give into that lust, and let that sin over take them to where they live in it again it will lead them to death not eternal life.

Now this could not be possible if future sins are already covered before they are committed, confessed, and then asked forgiveness of.

then how can God say you HAVE eternal life (which he did) when you do not have eternal life?

Can you explain this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did you even read all the scriptures that I posted, especially from Paul and Peter who both say only past sins are covered.

No. That may be your interpretation of what they said, but they never said that, if they did, they would never write of the eternal seal of the spirit. of How God, who began a good work in you will perfect it tillt he day of Christ, How you are justified freely by the grace of God, and how God removed the curse of the law from you. For they would be contradicting themselves.

I do declare God, and just like our Lord Jesus said the words that He spoke were from God.
This works with Paul and Peter, as what they say is from God as well through the Holy Spirit that is working in them.
They both said only past sins are forgiven, and future sins still have to be repented of / confessed / asked forgiveness of.
Nowhere in the bible does it say a one time repentance takes care of all.........

At says it all over the place. Even jesus said it.

He said IT IS FINISHED<

He did not say, I DID MY PART> NOW YOU DO YOURS>

 

[newbirth]

lol..

Here is what you want me to do.

I admit and confess. Coveting my neighbors good fortune is a sin.

A year later, He gets a shiney new car. Even though I KNOW IT IS A SIN, And I KNOW GOD HAS Blessed me more than I deserve.

My flesh gets the best of me, and I covet his new car.

Now, because (against what I know to be true) I have lost salvation, I have been kicked out of my fathers family, I am an orphan on the street. I am again dead to Christ. And will remain that way, Unless I repent and confess that sin.

Really? Where does it say this?

Here is the fact.

I knew it was a sin, I knew God has blessed me already more than I deserve, but my flesh was weak. I stumbled and I fell.

God never kicked me out of his family. He has not stopped loving me, He is not going to demand I repent, when he knows I already did.

He will chastem me, Want me to admit my sin to him, and tell me to continue to go and continue to trust him, And if i fall again, he will be right there to pick me up. Although when he does, it may be painfull ( heb 3) but to continue to learn from his chastening, because that is how I will find life.

if you lived in unrepentant sin for 35 years what is the difference between you and a 35 year old man who never knew Christ?...none...you both have to repent of your sins....

 

[newbirth]

So then how did God pay for your future sin if he did not know they were going to be sin to begin with? since he died 2000 years ago.

God died for your sin up to the time you repented but not the ones after?

Do you even listen to what you say?

[h=1]Romans 3:24-26King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

[h=1]Hebrews 10:17-19King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

 

[newbirth]

then how can God say you HAVE eternal life (which he did) when you do not have eternal life?

Can you explain this?

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;