THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[eternally-gratefull]

Willful sin is anytime you let a sin control your life.
Example: If you watch porn, and you said you repented of it, but you continue to watch porn over and over again.
You have not truly repented and are still living in willful sin that will lead to death, and not eternal life.
This goes with those that return to watching porn willfully and over and over again after giving it up, they have become a slave to that sin again. Willful sin leads to death, not eternal life.

Why do you people like to focus on sins like these. Why will you never admit you yourself sin on a daily bases, even if you can not see it?

Do you not understand That it is more than just one sin issue? it is the WHOLE LAW we have to deal with?

if one person suffers from porn addiction, and another has found freedom from porn addiction yet is addicted to serving self (not others)

are they not both condemned by the law? Even though one it would appear on the outside has stopped his sin, and the other continues in it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did not just contradict myself, for the truth of the scriptures come to light when you walk in the spirit.
And the scriptures say you are freed from the curse of the law, as long as you through love continue to walk in the ways of the Lord. If you turn from walking in His ways, to walk back in a willful sin then you do as the Galatians did and fall from grace. Nobody who does not have God's grace does not receive salvation.

No, Scripture does not say this. This is your false interpretation of the word.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— [SUP]14 [/SUP]so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

It says christ redeemed US (do you understand what the word redeem means) it says nothing about us redeeming ourself (which is what you are preaching)

and yes, you did just contradict yourself.

You said you are freed from the curse of the law. yet your not really freed. Only if you do something.

that is not freedom, that is enslavement.

 

[Mitspa]

Willful sin is anytime you let a sin control your life.
Example: If you watch porn, and you said you repented of it, but you continue to watch porn over and over again.
You have not truly repented and are still living in willful sin that will lead to death, and not eternal life.
This goes with those that return to watching porn willfully and over and over again after giving it up, they have become a slave to that sin again. Willful sin leads to death, not eternal life.

The strength if sin is the law and those who refuse the die the the flesh with Christ to the law are in willful sin. or those who forsake the way of righteousness by faith and turn back to the law (the strength of sin) are like the dog that returns to its vomit and the pig to its Mudd. that's willful sin as the bible describes it.

 

[newbirth]

Wrong, this would contradict other aspects of scripture. Does not scripture have to be united as one work? How can scripture contradict itself?



Thats a false catholic dogma, not founded in scripture. and makes everything God said about me the moment I chose to trust him a lie.

Can God lie?

Romans 3:24-26King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


2 Peter 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


Hebrews 10:18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Mitspa]

The law produces sinful passions in those under it....grace delivers yes from sin....to claim your trying to teach people to overcome sin and not set them free from the law is the greatest if errors. the reason so many Christians have such issues with sin is because they have been taught a false gospel and been put under parts of the law by people who Dont know the true gospel....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law produces sinful passions in those under it....grace delivers yes from sin....to claim your trying to teach people to overcome sin and not set them free from the law is the greatest if errors. the reason so many Christians have such issues with sin is because they have been taught a false gospel and been put under parts of the law by people who Dont know the true gospel....

amen, they still have the spirit of fear. and have yet to find their abba fathers.

They claim to have salvation, and the spirit of God who was given to them, but they deny its power.

 

[newbirth]

See what you just said though, you said you did that 35 years ago.
The bible through Paul, Peter, and John all say that you still have to confess and ask forgiveness of future sins.
Only your past and present sins were covered at the time you repented 35 years ago. If you have not confessed and asked forgiveness of your sins these 35 years after that, you are still guilty of unrepented sin.

35 years of unrepentant sin...that’s a lot...and convinced he is saved....that's frightening.....
1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[Mitspa]

So some claim they are under the law ..until they break it and then they go to Christ long enough to be justified by faith in His blood and then they go back under law to stay justified.....that's double minded sillyness .... a believer is justified by faith in Christ as long as they stay in faith and don't return to the law (the law is not of faith). To return to the law is to denounce faith in the grace if God and His Righteousness.

 

[Keeper]

... a believer is justified by faith in Christ as long as they stay in faith and don't return to the law.

Isn't this assertion a little too "philosophical"? What exactly does it mean to "stay in faith and never return to law"?

 

[newbirth]

The law produces sinful passions in those under it....grace delivers yes from sin....to claim your trying to teach people to overcome sin and not set them free from the law is the greatest if errors. the reason so many Christians have such issues with sin is because they have been taught a false gospel and been put under parts of the law by people who Dont know the true gospel....

this is rubbish.....how does the law produce sin....I did not see the law pushing Adam to eat eat the fruit...the law simply identifies sin...men sin of their own volition....

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So some claim they are under the law ..until they break it and then they go to Christ long enough to be justified by faith in His blood and then they go back under law to stay justified.....that's double minded sillyness .... a believer is justified by faith in Christ as long as they stay in faith and don't return to the law (the law is not of faith). To return to the law is to denounce faith in the grace if God and His Righteousness.

A good question would be, has one who returned to law ever had faith in Christ to begin with, How can you claim you trust Christ, not the law. then return to law? Unless your faith has always been according to the law?

A dog returns to his vomit, because he was always a dog, he was never made a new Creature in God. he just went through the motions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

35 years of unrepentant sin...that’s a lot...and convinced he is saved....that's frightening.....
1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

lol. Your too funny,

You think I stopped agreeing with God sin was sin? And that when I did fail, I was not chastened by God, and my heart was not torn in two because of that sin?

And you wonder why I have you on ignore!

 

[Mitspa]

Isn't this assertion a little too "philosophical"? What exactly does it mean to "stay in faith and never return to law"?

I will try to explain a little better when I get home and can post scripture to explain....but basically to begin in faith in Gods righteousness and not return to self righteousness by the law...that's the way of righteousness that we are supposed to keep.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Wrong, this would contradict other aspects of scripture. Does not scripture have to be united as one work? How can scripture contradict itself?



Thats a false catholic dogma, not founded in scripture. and makes everything God said about me the moment I chose to trust him a lie.

Can God lie?

This is not false Catholic dogma, the bible clearly says that you can get entangled and caught up in willful sin again that is not covered tell confessed and asked forgiveness of. Here are a few of them;

Paul

In Ephesians 5 talks about how we should walk, and what things we can not do as others continue to do or we are slaves to sin still. (Ephesians 5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them)

In 1 Timothy he says that you can not be a partaker in sins or you make yourself not pure, enmity to God. How can you become not pure if already forgiven? (1 Timothy 5:22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.)

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Peter

In 2 Peter he says that only your past old sins have been cleansed....
(2 Peter 1:9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.)

Then Peter also says make every effort to make yourself spotless, and blameless. You would already be that way if future sins are forgiven; (2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.)

John

In 1 John he tells us that only if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us;
1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

He continues this in chapter 2 saying that he is warning us so that we will not sin, but if we do through confession he will be our advocate for them and give us forgiveness of them.


Hebrews


[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-27If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.[/h]
Proverbs 28:13 Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.

Then from the person that matters the most, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He says that if you don't forgive others of their sins, you will not be forgiven of yours. How can this be if your future sins are already forgiven? It can't, or no matter if you forgive others or not in the future would not matter, but that is not what He says.

Matthew 6:15But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

 

[Keeper]

"Trust in Christ"... very good phrase. And so Jesus comes to me and says: "I am the only Way to salvation. FOLLOW ME." Without asking "Who the hell are you?!" I just pack up my bags and follow the man. TRUST. I follow Him, because I know He is who he says he is: The Way, the Truth and the Life.

And so with him leading the way, we set out on a journey out of Sodom. I'm still struggling with sin and all, but he says: "Don't worry about the Law. It's only a matter of time, things will work themselves out and you will be as holy as I am. Just don't focus on the Law. Keep your eyes on me instead. Don't be like Pete who took his eyes off me... back when he was learning how to walk on waters."

I TRUST his words again, and the journey goes on.

Question:
1. Is this road gonna be full of troubles? Pains and Sufferings? (I can answer that. YES. Worst than you can imagine).
2. Shall I be as holy as him one day? I mean, 100% within the boundaries of the Law... without even noticing? Because if not, then my troubles will have been for nothing. (think I can answer that too. YES... Absolutely. Just keep listening to whatever He says and don't take your eyes off the man.)

 

[kennethcadwell]

35 years of unrepentant sin...that’s a lot...and convinced he is saved....that's frightening.....
1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Yes I know that is dangerous that is why through love I am trying to warn them that thank this way.
The hatred toward the Catholic church has pushed in to other denominations pushing the false dogma that future sins are covered at a one time repentance, and confession and forgiveness of them no longer needed. There are just way to many warnings in the bible that different.
I am not Catholic, but I was in the Catholic church for 5 years. I left do to things that they taught contrary to scripture, but in the sense of future sins committed the bible makes it clear they still have to be confessed.

 

[Mitspa]

lol. Your too funny,

You think I stopped agreeing with God sin was sin? And that when I did fail, I was not chastened by God, and my heart was not torn in two because of that sin?

And you wonder why I have you on ignore!

Hey eternal. Glad to have you as a defender of the true gospel...when I get home I will start a thread on 1 John And explain how a child in Christ acknowledeges their sin and how a adult understands that In Him. We have no sin.... one cannot be a sinner and justified by Christ at the same time...its impossible. But we do get things on our conscience and need thispromise to reassure our hearts. Especially as a babe in Christ to which John is speaking.

 

[kennethcadwell]

lol. Your too funny,

You think I stopped agreeing with God sin was sin? And that when I did fail, I was not chastened by God, and my heart was not torn in two because of that sin?

And you wonder why I have you on ignore!

Chastening yes we should all feel that if we have the Holy Spirit, and the sorrow for doing the sin.
The point though is do you then confess them and ask forgiveness of them, turning from it, or do you say I repented 35 years ago so they are covered. Because if it is the latter of your repentance of 35 years ago covered it, without confessing and asking forgiveness of it. Then that is not biblical, and they are not covered and forgiven.

 

[john832]

The law produces sinful passions in those under it....grace delivers yes from sin....to claim your trying to teach people to overcome sin and not set them free from the law is the greatest if errors. the reason so many Christians have such issues with sin is because they have been taught a false gospel and been put under parts of the law by people who Dont know the true gospel....

This post exposes a serious fallacy, that the law PRODUCES sin. WRONG! The Law defines sin, our human nature produces sin...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Now I would hope that this was simply a mistake, surely you would not intentionally obscure the truth.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

It is very interesting that those who teach the Law is done away don't give verses 12 and 14 much exposure, do they?

 

[Keeper]

...but basically to begin in faith in Gods righteousness and not return to self righteousness by the law...

Don't worry much about the scriptures. I think I get your point. "I am justified/righteous, not because I don't sin anymore but simply because someone's already paid the price. I don't care what people think or say about me, their Laws do not apply to me because I'm not one of them anymore."

Does that sum up your thinking?