THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[john832]

. The law is one whole. Its every jot and tittle...that's Paul s point when he says that unless you keep "all this written in the book of the law". Or else your under the curse of the law...

Just curious...

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Where in the above passage does it say the Law is done away?

 

[john832]

I have been free from the curses of the law, through my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Knowing that He will continue to cover my sins with His blood, if I continue to confess my sins to Him asking for forgiveness of them.
And yes even the smallest sin makes you guilty, what cleanses you and makes you not guilty is repented of it and asking forgiveness of that sin. If you do that the Lord Jesus makes it clear that you are not to have it used against no more.

Our society has missed that when they still hold ones crime (sin) against them even after they have served their time in jail or prison.

Yes all people sin, but like I have said before the difference comes on rather you repent and ask forgiveness of those sins.
I did not say I am more worthy then another for salvation, that is your words again. Saying something again I did not say.

Through our sins we are all guilty;

If you repent and ask forgiveness of that sin/sins then you are covered by His blood, and deemed innocent at judgment.

If you don't repent and ask forgiveness of that sin/sins then you are not covered by His blood, and still guilty at judgment.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kennethcadwell again.

 

[Mitspa]

Really.

So because I didnt rebuke a post I did not see im in error.

Stop for a second and look at what your doing.

STRAWMAN

. Lol. No strawman here just thought it very sad that someone imply the gospel is just some mans throery of salvation by faith... like I said its hard to keep up and this phone limits my ability

 

[Mitspa]

Just curious...

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Where in the above passage does it say the Law is done away?

Its said in every possible way throughout the epistles. I guess James is assuming folks have read and heard the gospel and he writes in context of the gospel.

 

[newbirth]

Yes, but what part of the law are we free from.
The 10 commandments, the written ordinances of the mosaic law, the sacrificing of animals for sins, the curses of the law.

We are free from the ordinances of the law that contain the animal sacrifices and the curses.
The moral laws of God we are still held in check in, if we continue to live in a willful sin making us enmity to God by not following His moral laws and commands. Our punishment will come at judgment by getting eternal punishment instead of eternal life.

If you are dead you are free from the whole law...the law does not come in sections it is a complete law...and in Christ we are free from it and it's penalties...Christ life is our new law...even though Christ's life law contain things that are in the Mosaic law we are not under Mosaic law....

 

[john832]

Its said in every possible way throughout the epistles. I guess James is assuming folks have read and heard the gospel and he writes in context of the gospel.

Uh, I am pretty sure that James was smart enough to be cognizant of the fact that the New Testament had not yet been canonized by John. He wrote that in his epistle and there is nothing in the passage to indicate it means anything but the fact that it means what it says.

But some people support their doctrines by assuring us that the Bible doesn't really mean what it says and say what it means.

 

[john832]

If you are dead you are free from the whole law...the law does not come in sections it is a complete law...and in Christ we are free from it and it's penalties...Christ life is our new law...even though Christ's life law contain things that are in the Mosaic law we are not under Mosaic law....

Uh, OK, so I no longer have to be concerned about the Commandments? I can now do what Adam and Eve did?

I can decide what is right and wrong?

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

That's the same MBFM that Satan fed to our first parents 6000 years ago. Just goes to show you that...

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

[kennethcadwell]

did jesus not die for my sin before I was even born?

you mentioned jail.. did jesus take my punishment (jail term) or did he not?

it is not like jesus died for my sin after I commited it, he paid for it before I was even born.

why do we want to keep crucifying Christ all over again?

it is like you excuse your sin as long as you do something, and someone else does not get away with it because he does not do something (ar actually you assume they did nothing)

can a child of God sin, and not be chastened by God, or KNOW it is a sin?

I think not.

if you have been freed from the curse of the law. the law can never curse you again, if it can, you have not been freed from the curse of the law. you are still under the law.

Yes the Lord Jesus died for our sins before we were born in the flesh.
That does not mean we are already forgiven of them before we commit them, you still have to repent and ask forgiveness of them to accept His blood to cover them.

I was comparing how in society after a person has spent time in jail or prison, they still hold that sin against the person by making it hard for them to get jobs, live in peace and privacy, and set new restrictions on them.
Lord Jesus said once you repent and ask forgiveness of what you have done, we are to not hold that against you any more.

Lord Jesus does believe and taught in a punishment for correction, but not to punish others with death.
Which is why Paul was so adamant to warn believers over and over again about sin and giving into it again.

You are not crucifying Jesus again by repenting of, confessing your sins and asking for forgiveness of them when you do sin again. You are obeying Him in love to say you are sorry for disobeying Him.
1 John and 2 Peter both show that future sins are not forgiven, tell after they have been done and then confessed and asked forgiveness of.

[h=1]2 Peter 1:5-9[/h]5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductivein your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

 

[Mitspa]

Oh yeah, what was I thinking, killing, adultery, theft and lusting are no longer sins.

The strength of sin is the law ...it produces these evil desires in the flesh...but the law of Christ to love empowers us to not commiit such things.... Not under the law of Moses but under the law of Christ to love. Yet some willfully sin by looking to the law ( The strength of sin). They cannot rest from sin. Do you guys ever wonder why your so focused on sin and not righteousness?

 

[kennethcadwell]

If you are dead you are free from the whole law...the law does not come in sections it is a complete law...and in Christ we are free from it and it's penalties...Christ life is our new law...even though Christ's life law contain things that are in the Mosaic law we are not under Mosaic law....

Yes because in being under Christ you would want follow His commands out of love for Him.

If a person claims to be a Christian living under Christ, yet continues in willful sin or returns to a life of willful sin they are not under God's grace.
I know we are not under the written ordinances of the mosaic law, but we are to follow God's moral laws as those are what is written in our heart. The 10 commandments came through and showed God's moral laws within them.

 

[Mitspa]

Uh, I am pretty sure that James was smart enough to be cognizant of the fact that the New Testament had not yet been canonized by John. He wrote that in his epistle and there is nothing in the passage to indicate it means anything but the fact that it means what it says.

But some people support their doctrines by assuring us that the Bible doesn't really mean what it says and say what it means.

What? The gospel was preached And epistle spread to every true church. john did not canonized the bible that happen after he was killed. But the point still remains that James wrote in context of the righteousness of faith and upholds Gods righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have been free from the curses of the law, through my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Knowing that He will continue to cover my sins with His blood, if I continue to confess my sins to Him asking for forgiveness of them.

You just contradicted yourself.

You said you have been freed from the curse of the law. But you are not freed from the curse of the law. Which is it?

How can you be freed from the curse of the law if the curse of the law can still at any time condemn you?

 

[Mitspa]

Yes because in being under Christ you would want follow His commands out of love for Him.

If a person claims to be a Christian living under Christ, yet continues in willful sin or returns to a life of willful sin they are not under God's grace.
I know we are not under the written ordinances of the mosaic law, but we are to follow God's moral laws as those are what is written in our heart. The 10 commandments came through and showed God's moral laws within them.

The "willful" sin in the book of Hebrews is to return to the law. (The strength of sin). those who turn from grace back to law have despised the Spirit of grace and there remains no longer a sacrifice for there sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes the Lord Jesus died for our sins before we were born in the flesh.
That does not mean we are already forgiven of them before we commit them, you still have to repent and ask forgiveness of them to accept His blood to cover them.

I did that, almost 35 years ago..

Was I not saved then? And did God not justify me freely then as Paul said? And as paul said, Was not the curse of the law removed from me? was it not taken out of the way as paul said, and nailed to the cross?

Or did God lie when he said I have passed from death to life, I have been saved from the eternal wrath to come. I have been born again, I have been given eternal life. I do not have to search for food anymore, because I already ate it?

I am not talking about how I should live after I was saved, God will take care of that, by chastening me when I get out of line, I am asking you. Was I saved when I repented and placed my faith in Christ or not?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I did that, almost 35 years ago..

Was I not saved then? And did God not justify me freely then as Paul said? And as paul said, Was not the curse of the law removed from me? was it not taken out of the way as paul said, and nailed to the cross?

Or did God lie when he said I have passed from death to life, I have been saved from the eternal wrath to come. I have been born again, I have been given eternal life. I do not have to search for food anymore, because I already ate it?

I am not talking about how I should live after I was saved, God will take care of that, by chastening me when I get out of line, I am asking you. Was I saved when I repented and placed my faith in Christ or not?

See what you just said though, you said you did that 35 years ago.
The bible through Paul, Peter, and John all say that you still have to confess and ask forgiveness of future sins.
Only your past and present sins were covered at the time you repented 35 years ago. If you have not confessed and asked forgiveness of your sins these 35 years after that, you are still guilty of unrepented sin.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The "willful" sin in the book of Hebrews is to return to the law. (The strength of sin). those who turn from grace back to law have despised the Spirit of grace and there remains no longer a sacrifice for there sin.

Willful sin is anytime you let a sin control your life.
Example: If you watch porn, and you said you repented of it, but you continue to watch porn over and over again.
You have not truly repented and are still living in willful sin that will lead to death, and not eternal life.
This goes with those that return to watching porn willfully and over and over again after giving it up, they have become a slave to that sin again. Willful sin leads to death, not eternal life.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You just contradicted yourself.

You said you have been freed from the curse of the law. But you are not freed from the curse of the law. Which is it?

How can you be freed from the curse of the law if the curse of the law can still at any time condemn you?

I did not just contradict myself, for the truth of the scriptures come to light when you walk in the spirit.
And the scriptures say you are freed from the curse of the law, as long as you through love continue to walk in the ways of the Lord. If you turn from walking in His ways, to walk back in a willful sin then you do as the Galatians did and fall from grace. Nobody who does not have God's grace does not receive salvation.

 

[newbirth]

Uh, OK, so I no longer have to be concerned about the Commandments? I can now do what Adam and Eve did?

I can decide what is right and wrong?

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

That's the same MBFM that Satan fed to our first parents 6000 years ago. Just goes to show you that...

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

did you conclude that from what I wrote?....if you are opposing something I wrote ...quote what you oppose and show your reason....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See what you just said though, you said you did that 35 years ago.
The bible through Paul, Peter, and John all say that you still have to confess and ask forgiveness of future sins.

Wrong, this would contradict other aspects of scripture. Does not scripture have to be united as one work? How can scripture contradict itself?

Only your past and present sins were covered at the time you repented 35 years ago. If you have not confessed and asked forgiveness of your sins these 35 years after that, you are still guilty of unrepented sin.

Thats a false catholic dogma, not founded in scripture. and makes everything God said about me the moment I chose to trust him a lie.

Can God lie?

 

[newbirth]

I did that, almost 35 years ago..

Was I not saved then? And did God not justify me freely then as Paul said? And as paul said, Was not the curse of the law removed from me? was it not taken out of the way as paul said, and nailed to the cross?

Or did God lie when he said I have passed from death to life, I have been saved from the eternal wrath to come. I have been born again, I have been given eternal life. I do not have to search for food anymore, because I already ate it?

I am not talking about how I should live after I was saved, God will take care of that, by chastening me when I get out of line, I am asking you. Was I saved when I repented and placed my faith in Christ or not?

that's strange...I recall the scripture saying...
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
not... repented and placed my faith in Christ