THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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Mitspa

Guest
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith without hypocrisy:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Kenneth...Jesus built his church upon HIMSELF not on PETER....so like I said...go study the difference between a pebble and a STONE and it becomes all to clear.......but I suppose I shouldn't expect anything less from you as you are not open to learning and instruction having been indoctrinated early into catholic dogma and still carrying it to this day!
that is what most of this. doctrines of denominations or certain churches vs. what the Bible says and means.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
Why are Paul's writings DIRECTLY connected to, "the error of lawless people"

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness


Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
The scriptures refer to it as Pauls gospel...in that it was a revelation given to Paul first...and here is the bibles words on the issue..

Ga 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Ga 2:11 ¶ But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Ga 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith

You have to understand the full context though, and it wasn't that they were preaching a wrong gospel.
The issue was that Peter and others were still stuck in their old traditions, and when it came to the gentile converts Peter and others wanted to make them follow the old mosaic laws. The mosaic laws do not apply to those who are under Christ, but like I said if you read on you will see that they came together and worked it out and determined what traditions from the old covenant we should still obey.

You have to understand that Peter was charged to give the gospel to the Jews, who after hearing still wanted to stick with old traditions and customs.

Paul was commissioned to give the same gospel message to the gentiles, who are not under the mosaic law.

That is where the rebuking came from by Paul to Peter, still to this day Jewish converts still hold to some of the laws. This still has nothing to do that Paul taught a different gospel then Peter. If they did teach different gospels, then Paul would not have rebuked Him for pushing old traditions on people. Peter was personally told by Jesus, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Look at your last highlighted sentence to, it is saying that no man is justified by trying to keep the mosaic laws, because this was the discussion here. Not God's moral laws.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Why are Paul's writings DIRECTLY connected to, "the error of lawless people"

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness


Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
So, let me get this straight...YOU are trying to say that PETER is warning people to not follow what Paul was saying and teaching? If you are, you have not only missed the target but have not even drawn the bow.
 
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psychomom

Guest
God spoke two words to us, Law and Grace.
and i'm mystified to see Christians prefer Law to Grace.

God's Law is absolutely good! it comes from God, how could it not be?
but it is we who are not good, and we who have died to the Law. (right??)

Hizikyah, i think it was you who quoted Philippians 4:13?
i would respectfully suggest that, in context, it may not mean what you seem to imply?
(Paul's talking about suffering there...)

the doctrine we call Union with Christ does not mean we can now go out and be Jesus...
it's not (primarily) that we can now go out and do everything Jesus did...
it means we now freely receive everything Jesus earned.
so, when i'm driving and become angry at another driver, instead of seeing a murderer,
God looks at me and sees someone who turns the other cheek.

God's Law is good! but let's not deceive ourselves into thinking it's (only) about outward performance.
it's about the h-e-a-r-t.

JL is absolutely right...we need both Law and Grace.
my questions are these...(and they've been answered to an extent)
how do both work in the human heart...

and which Covenant are we part of?

thanks for listening. :)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Mark 13:22-23, "For false messiahs and false prophets will rise, and will produce signs and wonders to lead astray, if it were possible, even the elect. So be on your guard! Behold I have warned you of all things beforehand!"

Matt, 7:24-27 "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, is like a wise man who built his house on the rock; And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat against that house; but it did not fall, for it was founded upon the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat against that house; and it fell, and great was the fall of it."

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Isayah 29:13-14, "Therefore Yahweh said: Because these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their reverence to Me is taught by the precept of men; Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people; a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men, will be hid."

Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears (191 ) my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment (2920), but has passed out of death into life."

191. akouó
akouó: to hear, listen
Original Word: ἀκούω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: akouó
Phonetic Spelling: (ak-oo'-o)
Short Definition: I hear, listen
Definition: I hear, listen, comprehend by hearing; pass: is heard, reported.

2920. krisis
krisis: a decision, judgment
Original Word: κρίσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: krisis
Phonetic Spelling: (kree'-sis)
Short Definition: judging, divine judgment
Definition: judging, judgment, decision, sentence; generally: divine judgment; accusation.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey


Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Kenneth...Jesus built his church upon HIMSELF not on PETER....so like I said...go study the difference between a pebble and a STONE and it becomes all to clear.......but I suppose I shouldn't expect anything less from you as you are not open to learning and instruction having been indoctrinated early into catholic dogma and still carrying it to this day!

[h=1]Matthew 16:18-19[/h]18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church,and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.


 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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So, let me get this straight...YOU are trying to say that PETER is warning people to not follow what Paul was saying and teaching? If you are, you have not only missed the target but have not even drawn the bow.
No that is not what I said.

Why are Paul's writings DIRECTLY connected to, "the error of lawless people"

Why?

The Answer: "the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures"

Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
 
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psychomom

Guest
ps-- apologies for being forgetful about whom,
but to whoever said Jesus didn't teach Law, please see the Sermon on the Mount. :)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
You have to understand the full context though, and it wasn't that they were preaching a wrong gospel.
The issue was that Peter and others were still stuck in their old traditions, and when it came to the gentile converts Peter and others wanted to make them follow the old mosaic laws. The mosaic laws do not apply to those who are under Christ, but like I said if you read on you will see that they came together and worked it out and determined what traditions from the old covenant we should still obey.

You have to understand that Peter was charged to give the gospel to the Jews, who after hearing still wanted to stick with old traditions and customs.

Paul was commissioned to give the same gospel message to the gentiles, who are not under the mosaic law.

That is where the rebuking came from by Paul to Peter, still to this day Jewish converts still hold to some of the laws. This still has nothing to do that Paul taught a different gospel then Peter. If they did teach different gospels, then Paul would not have rebuked Him for pushing old traditions on people. Peter was personally told by Jesus, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Look at your last highlighted sentence to, it is saying that no man is justified by trying to keep the mosaic laws, because this was the discussion here. Not God's moral laws.
Read it..its clearly a transgression of the gospel and its such a big deal that Paul goes on to warn those in the church of falling from grace and that he is in doubt of their faith...Here is where the warnings of scripture are...to fall from grace and to be cut-off from Christ...that might not sound like a big deal to you ...but its the gravest warnings of the New Testament.


Paul even related this to witchcraft...

Ga 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 
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Matthew 16:18-19

18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church,and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it.19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.


Yeah so what...STUDY the word PETER (PETROS) and the word for ROCK (PETRA) and open your eyes....Peter was not and is not the head of the Lord's church.....YOU can post it in Holly WOOD size letters and it will not change the facts.....!
 
Sep 30, 2014
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Men will be judged by Pauls gospel....

Here is what Jesus Christ (Yahshua) says;

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.


…22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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God spoke two words to us, Law and Grace.
and i'm mystified to see Christians prefer Law to Grace.

God's Law is absolutely good! it comes from God, how could it not be?
but it is we who are not good, and we who have died to the Law. (right??)

Hizikyah, i think it was you who quoted Philippians 4:13?
i would respectfully suggest that, in context, it may not mean what you seem to imply?
(Paul's talking about suffering there...)

the doctrine we call Union with Christ does not mean we can now go out and be Jesus...
it's not (primarily) that we can now go out and do everything Jesus did...
it means we now freely receive everything Jesus earned.
so, when i'm driving and become angry at another driver, instead of seeing a murderer,
God looks at me and sees someone who turns the other cheek.

God's Law is good! but let's not deceive ourselves into thinking it's (only) about outward performance.
it's about the h-e-a-r-t.

JL is absolutely right...we need both Law and Grace.
my questions are these...(and they've been answered to an extent)
how do both work in the human heart...

and which Covenant are we part of?

thanks for listening. :)
Thank you your very nice person!

When did I ever say not mercy of Messiah?

I think the mystery of iniquity is so far that when anyone talks of obedience people automatically think, "fallen from geace, working for savlation, evil !"

But we are told by Messiah over and over,

the Law wont pass; Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

and we should follow it; Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

I am, Yahweh willing a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of Messiah, promised to Israyl (no im not Jewish, I am grafted in*, one way one people.)

God spoke two words to us, Law and Grace.
and i'm mystified to see Christians prefer Law to Grace.

God's Law is absolutely good! it comes from God, how could it not be?
but it is we who are not good, and we who have died to the Law. (right??)

and which Covenant are we part of?
How can I possibly reject something I love.


Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

*Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galatians3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

One that is a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah, has the Law of Yahweh or more accurately the Torah, written on their heart, how could one believe it shouldnt be followed, it shouldn't be read, or it applies no longer if they are truly a part of this covenant? I believe the only reason I love His instructions is because Yahweh has put this on my heart, years ago when I was lost I certainly did not enjoy His Instructions.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
ps-- apologies for being forgetful about whom,
but to whoever said Jesus didn't teach Law, please see the Sermon on the Mount. :)
Nobody said that in fact its been explained that Christ brought the law to its true standard where everyone knows they are guilty even the self-righteous could not keep the the standard Christ revealed... I hope you don't think you can? He did this because the purpose of the law is to make all guilty not to justify anyone and to bring all to faith in Christ to be justified through faith in His Blood.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No that is not what I said.

Why are Paul's writings DIRECTLY connected to, "the error of lawless people"

Why?

The Answer: "the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures"

Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Yeah and Paul taught that those who mix faith and law or grace and law miss the mark concerning the law, faith and grace.......
 
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25And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. 26But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. 27For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.


31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


33And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.



34And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.






Jesus Washes the Disciples' Feet
…15"For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you. 16"Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him. 17"If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Yeah and Paul taught that those who mix faith and law or grace and law miss the mark concerning the law, faith and grace.......
Is that what he taught? You sure?

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Faith + no works = dead

Works + no faith = dead

We need faith and works, AND OUR FAITH HAS TO BE POINTED AT THE RIGHT DIRECTION

Titus 1:16, "They profess that they know Yahweh, but by their works they deny Him--being abominable, disobedient, and to every righteous work, reprobate."

2 Timothy 3:5, "Having a form of holiness, but denying the authority of it--from such turn away!"

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Luke 11:28, "But He said: Yet, rather, blessed are those who hear the plan of Yahweh, and keep; guard, preserve, and obey, it!"

Romans 1:5, "By Whom we have received mercy and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His Name."

Debating over faith/works is pointless.

In the mindset of true Salvation faith and obedience are one in the same.

Period.

If you believed you would do.

Period.

People are so far disconnected from the Branch...

Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "

Heb 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey?So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Only in the west do we put a difference between faith and obedience....

Contend for the faith once delivered to the saints....

1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin (what is sin?). And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."
 
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psychomom

Guest
Nobody said that in fact its been explained that Christ brought the law to its true standard where everyone knows they are guilty even the self-righteous could not keep the the standard Christ revealed... I hope you don't think you can? He did this because the purpose of the law is to make all guilty not to justify anyone and to bring all to faith in Christ to be justified through faith in His Blood.
oh, no one said it?
thanks...i guess i was reading too quickly. :)

totally agree with everything you said.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Yeah so what...STUDY the word PETER (PETROS) and the word for ROCK (PETRA) and open your eyes....Peter was not and is not the head of the Lord's church.....YOU can post it in Holly WOOD size letters and it will not change the facts.....!

I have done that, the point being made is that Peter was the one out of the 11 original that Jesus personally told this to about the keys to the kingdom of heaven. This means that Peter was given all truth in the gospel, not a partial truth.