Kindle a fire on the Sabbath

[Dan_473]

All one really needs to do is read the context...

Exo 35:1 And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
Exo 35:4 And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
Exo 35:5 Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
Exo 35:6 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
Exo 35:7 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
Exo 35:8 And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
Exo 35:9 And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.

and the instructions go on here about BUILDING the Tabernacle.

Let's read this passage in context with understanding...

The first thing God reminds the people of is that one does not do work, one's customary employment, on the Sabbath. Neither does one do home repairs, build fence or make hay.

Now that we God has established the very first principle, that work is not done on the Sabbath, He continues with the subject at hand, making the Tabernacle.

First thing to remember is that even though you are making the Tabernacle of God, you do not do work on the Sabbath. OK, we got this. Now let's look at the fire...

John Gill (the master of run-on sentences) writes this...

Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day. This law seems to be a temporary one, and not to be continued, nor is it said to be throughout their generations as elsewhere, where the law of the sabbath is given or repeated; it is to be restrained to the building of the tabernacle, and while that was about, to which it is prefaced; and it is designed to prevent all public or private working on the sabbath day, in anything belonging to that; having no fire to heat their tools or melt their metal, or do any thing for which that was necessary; for it can hardly be thought that this is to be taken in the strictest sense, as an entire prohibition of kindling a fire and the use of it on that day, which is so absolutely useful, and needful in various cases, and where acts of mercy and necessity require it; as in cold seasons of the year, for the warming and comforting of persons who otherwise would be unfit for religious exercises, and on the account of infants and aged persons, who could not subsist without it; and in cases of sickness, and various disorders which necessarily require it; and even for the preparation of food, which must be had on that day as on others, the sabbath being not a fast, but rather a festival, as it is with the Jews;

Matthew Henry has this in his commentary...

III. He begins with the law of the sabbath, because that was much insisted on in the instructions he had received (Exo_35:2, Exo_35:3): Six days shall work be done, work for the tabernacle, the work of the day that was now to be done in its day; and they had little else to do here in the wilderness, where they had neither husbandry nor merchandise, neither food to get nor clothes to make: but on the seventh day you must not strike a stroke, no, not at the tabernacle-work; the honour of the sabbath was above that of the sanctuary, more ancient and more lasting; that must be to you a holy day, devoted to God, and not be spent in common business. It is a sabbath of rest. It is a sabbath of sabbaths (so some read it), more honourable and excellent than any of the other feasts, and should survive them all. A sabbath of sabbatism, so others read it, being typical of that sabbatism or rest, both spiritual and eternal, which remains for the people of God, Heb_4:9. It is a sabbath of rest, that is, in which a rest from all worldly labour must be very carefully and strictly observed. It is a sabbath and a little sabbath, so some of the Jews would have it

Thanks for the input!
A good possible interpretation, that this law was only to be used during the building of the tabernacle... though I'm not sure I agree with Gill about "as in cold seasons of the year...". Does it get cold enough in that area to need a fire?

 

[Dan_473]

Even more so, do you suppose that Christ, the One who gave the fourth Commandment, has no insight as to what it would be like to sit in a 40 degree house?

My guess is that God intended this law for hot, dry climates like the middle east. I was interested in what other people thought.

 

[john832]

My guess is that God intended this law for hot, dry climates like the middle east. I was interested in what other people thought.

I do believe that God, being infinite in knowledge and understanding (Psa 147:5) was wise enough to give Laws that are not dependent on time or geography.

P.S. By the way, I am a roadie.

 

[john832]

That is the part that people don't understand and want to debate.
You can clearly see that the Lord made changes from the old covenant to the new covenant that we are in. In the situations I posted from scripture showed how we are to follow the better standard that our Lord brought to us. To love, forgive, and have mercy on others, and not to stick to the written ordinances of the mosaic covenant. ( Colossians 2:14 )

He made changes yes, but what changes?

And where does He EVER make any changes regarding the fourth Commandment?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Keeping the Sabbath holy is a command given to us by our God, the reason for this because it was looking forward to our Lord and when He came and died on the cross so that we can have rest in Him.
Hebrews 4 shows that our Sabbath rest is in our Lord Jesus Christ now, by our love and obedience to Him.

The way it is to be observed in the NT is different then the OT, and we are not bound to not working on the Sabbath day rather you consider it to be Saturday or Sunday. Romans 14 like has been mentioned already is a great example of this, as long as you give the day and all you do in that day to God, you honor Him which keeps it holy.


Numbers 15:32-36

Sabbath-breaking Punished

32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who foundhim gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; 34 and they put him in [a]custody because it had not been [b]declared what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him [c]to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Now lets look how the Lord changed this in the new testament;


Matthew 12:1-10English Standard Version (ESV)

Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath

12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doingwhat is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?5 Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”


John 5:8-15

8 Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” 9 At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.
The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, 10 and so the Jewish leaderssaid to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”
11 But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”


The observance of the Sabbath is now different, as the rest is in our Lord Jesus, and does not hold on the law of rather we should work or not work. It holds on to if what we do is done for the Lord our God.

He made changes yes, but what changes?

And where does He EVER make any changes regarding the fourth Commandment?

Right here in post 13 I explained this......

 

[john832]

Right here in post 13 I explained this......

OK, show me where in scripture the Sabbath is now changed? Show me the instruction that says, "Oh by the way, ignore the seventh day. Work on it if you wish. Pursue all your own pleasures on it. In general, just disregard it."

I'd really like to read that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

OK, show me where in scripture the Sabbath is now changed? Show me the instruction that says, "Oh by the way, ignore the seventh day. Work on it if you wish. Pursue all your own pleasures on it. In general, just disregard it."

I'd really like to read that.

Did you not read the scriptures I just gave where it showed that Jesus allowed the Apostles and the man He healed to do things on the Sabbath that was not lawful to do, and how He rebuked the Pharisees for wanting to hold the old mosaic law punishment for breaking the Sabbath on them.
Then in Hebrews 4 it shows how are Sabbath rest is in Him now, and not a given day.
In your faith by love and obedience to the Lord you become holy as he is holy and you enter His Sabbath rest.


1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

 

[Yahshua]

I hear this a lot but no one EVER quotes a scripture that shows that Christ IS the Sabbath. There are scriptures that say He is LORD of the Sabbath but none that say He is the Sabbath.

They may be referring to Hebrew 4:9-10...but even that passage - when read in its full context - speaks of "obedience" as the path to God's rest (Heb 4:11).

So... you would crank the furnace? Or did I misunderstand?

Yeah I think you misunderstood...perhaps.

Let's say your furnace broke on Sunday morning just as you leave for Church...The forecast for the evening was bitter cold..and it's Sunday so most professionals of this world are off. Would you stay home to work on fixing it (or try to find someone who can fix it) or would you go to Church to worship God on the day? I use Sunday for you, but consider the same question applies to me for The Sabbath.

One decision will be "for self"...and the other decision will be "for God". The question is, "will you/I have faith God will sustain you/me for honoring him?"


Now compare the weight of that scenario, to your question for me...

Would I crank the furnace (on the Sabbath)? If it was cold and I wanted to warm the house, sure. There was no "work" involved to take my mind off spending time with my Father on our special day together.

Now let's say while I was reading scripture and worshiping God on the Sabbath there was a power outage. It's completely dark. I have a few candles in storage along with a box of matches. Would me striking a match and lighting a candle so I can continue my study and worship dishonor God on the Sabbath because I "made fire"? No...

But if I went outside and sought why there's a power outage, hunting for the problem, calling my utility company, began worrying about my food spoiling in the fridge, brainstorming on solutions to keep everything frozen/fresh...Do you see where I'm going with this? My mind is now off God on our special day together and I'm more concerned with self-sustaining, even though he's the one who's in charge of everything.


The Spirit. We must understand the Spirit of the law; the purpose behind it for true fulfillment and honoring of it. The Sabbath is like "date night" with your spouse (if married) or "family game night" with your family (if you have kids). It's a special time Dad set aside to hang out with his kids.

Unfortunately, a lot of his kids are like "But Daaad...can't we hang out another time?? I really wanted to do my own thing today. We can hang out tomorrow, ok? That's when I'll be free instead. You love me right so you don't mind." And some are like "I don't see why we need to have a special time to spend together, dad, we see each other like every day. So every day is our special day." Still, other children say " well fine. I guess if I have to since you're forcing me to (sigh). I'll get in trouble if I don't so let's get this over with. This is sooo boring."

..The above are examples of what children actually say to their parents. I tie them into this discussion using Romans 1:20.


One more scenario; Let's say I was worshiping God on the Sabbath and someone just outside my door runs a flat tire. They don't have any tools to put on their spare nor do they know how. They knock on my door asking for help. Do I help them or tell them "sorry, I can't work today." Knowing the Father how we do, what would be the right move here?

Of course the right move would be to help the person even if it took some work from me to do it...but how is this OK? Isn't this breaking the Sabbath? No...firstly, my thoughts aren't on "self" in this situation, it's on others (2nd greatest commandment). Secondly, I am a priest of God (of Melchizedek) commissioned to minister for him...and I was activated at that moment. Christ said "the priest of God profane the Sabbath and are blameless" (Matt 12:5), not because they supersede the law but because the law enumerates that Priests of God minister on the Sabbath and High Sabbaths for him; they work in service to the Father on his holy day.

So when I'm in my priestly role I perform God's work on the Sabbath spreading the goodness of God..and when I'm not in my priestly role I spend quality time with my Father. Either way, I take a rest from "my" work.

 

[Laodicea]

(I'll preface this by saying that i'm not a law-keeper.)

The Law says
"You shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations on the Sabbath day."

I live in Northeast USA... it gets cold here in the winter... I realized the other day that when I turn the knob on my thermostat, I'm basically starting a fire in my basement. I suppose I could use electric heat, but then I'm asking someone else to break the Sabbath by going to work at the power plant.

I'm interested in hearing from people who want to keep the law and live where it's cold, or anyone else that has opinions on this.

Peace all.

They were not to gather sticks on Sabbath or manna.The manna they collected a double portion on the 6th day to eat on sabbath. So with the sticks they could have gathered enough to use on sabbath. What if they already had a fire going and all the firewood. The reason for not gathering was so they could have the 7th day for worship of God.

[SUP]
Leviticus 23:3
3 [/SUP]Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

A holy convocation meant it was a sacred assembly.

 

[KohenMatt]

A good spiritual lesson... I think my furnace has electric ignition... would that change anything?

Not in my mind. I think it's just splitting hairs over something God had no intention of it addressing.

 

[Kerry]

Read Romans 14 :1 pray and seek then read it again. Eat some lamb Gyro then read it again, Observe the Sabbath and then read it again. I meant the Holy Spirit saw fit to put it there.

 

[Dan_473]

I understand this as not kindling a fire to do work with, not kindling a fire by which I am employed. One should look at all the various Commands concerning the Sabbath and use these to determine an overriding principle. The principle is, do not earn your living or provide your sustenance on the Sabbath. Do that the remaining six days a week. Reserve the Sabbath for Spiritual pursuits.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Dan_473]

I do believe that God, being infinite in knowledge and understanding (Psa 147:5) was wise enough to give Laws that are not dependent on time or geography.

P.S. By the way, I am a roadie.

Definitely God is wise enough... I'm not sure that was His intention in this case, though... Perhaps God, knowing that the Spirit would guide the bulk of the Church not to follow the Law, tuned it to work best for Israelites...
again, thanks for input!

 

[Dan_473]

They may be referring to Hebrew 4:9-10...but even that passage - when read in its full context - speaks of "obedience" as the path to God's rest (Heb 4:11).



Yeah I think you misunderstood...perhaps.

Let's say your furnace broke on Sunday morning just as you leave for Church...The forecast for the evening was bitter cold..and it's Sunday so most professionals of this world are off. Would you stay home to work on fixing it (or try to find someone who can fix it) or would you go to Church to worship God on the day? I use Sunday for you, but consider the same question applies to me for The Sabbath.

One decision will be "for self"...and the other decision will be "for God". The question is, "will you/I have faith God will sustain you/me for honoring him?"


Now compare the weight of that scenario, to your question for me...

Would I crank the furnace (on the Sabbath)? If it was cold and I wanted to warm the house, sure. There was no "work" involved to take my mind off spending time with my Father on our special day together.

Now let's say while I was reading scripture and worshiping God on the Sabbath there was a power outage. It's completely dark. I have a few candles in storage along with a box of matches. Would me striking a match and lighting a candle so I can continue my study and worship dishonor God on the Sabbath because I "made fire"? No...

But if I went outside and sought why there's a power outage, hunting for the problem, calling my utility company, began worrying about my food spoiling in the fridge, brainstorming on solutions to keep everything frozen/fresh...Do you see where I'm going with this? My mind is now off God on our special day together and I'm more concerned with self-sustaining, even though he's the one who's in charge of everything.


The Spirit. We must understand the Spirit of the law; the purpose behind it for true fulfillment and honoring of it. The Sabbath is like "date night" with your spouse (if married) or "family game night" with your family (if you have kids). It's a special time Dad set aside to hang out with his kids.

Unfortunately, a lot of his kids are like "But Daaad...can't we hang out another time?? I really wanted to do my own thing today. We can hang out tomorrow, ok? That's when I'll be free instead. You love me right so you don't mind." And some are like "I don't see why we need to have a special time to spend together, dad, we see each other like every day. So every day is our special day." Still, other children say " well fine. I guess if I have to since you're forcing me to (sigh). I'll get in trouble if I don't so let's get this over with. This is sooo boring."

..The above are examples of what children actually say to their parents. I tie them into this discussion using Romans 1:20.


One more scenario; Let's say I was worshiping God on the Sabbath and someone just outside my door runs a flat tire. They don't have any tools to put on their spare nor do they know how. They knock on my door asking for help. Do I help them or tell them "sorry, I can't work today." Knowing the Father how we do, what would be the right move here?

Of course the right move would be to help the person even if it took some work from me to do it...but how is this OK? Isn't this breaking the Sabbath? No...firstly, my thoughts aren't on "self" in this situation, it's on others (2nd greatest commandment). Secondly, I am a priest of God (of Melchizedek) commissioned to minister for him...and I was activated at that moment. Christ said "the priest of God profane the Sabbath and are blameless" (Matt 12:5), not because they supersede the law but because the law enumerates that Priests of God minister on the Sabbath and High Sabbaths for him; they work in service to the Father on his holy day.

So when I'm in my priestly role I perform God's work on the Sabbath spreading the goodness of God..and when I'm not in my priestly role I spend quality time with my Father. Either way, I take a rest from "my" work.

Well, as I said, I want to try not to convince anyone, (but if you're interested, here's my take)...

"Would you stay home to work on fixing it (or try to find someone who can fix it) or would you go to Church to worship God on the day?"

I would stay home and fix it, because I can gather with other believers any day.

"...spending time with my Father on our special day together."

Maybe this is the crux of where my views part from many lawkeepers... As a Christian, I see all days as a special time to spend with God... "Whatever we do in word or deed, let's do it all in the name of the Lord" or words to that affect... so, it's seven days a week, 24/7... to turn it around, are there some days that you don't want to think about God so much? or pray less?

someone might say, "yes, but there have to be some days that you have to go to work to feed yourself, etc..." No, God feeds me... I do go to a place that God has directed me and do the things there that he has shown me to do... someone looking at it might call it a 'job'. But it is all holy to the Lord, because He has directed it from start to finish, and I do it in His name (that's my goal).

Or someone might say, "don't you ever want to go to a movie or something for yourself?" No. I only want to do stuff for God. If God directs me to see a movie, then (imo) that direction might happen any day, since then it would be the Lord's work.

Peace, my man!

 

[Dan_473]

They were not to gather sticks on Sabbath or manna.The manna they collected a double portion on the 6th day to eat on sabbath. So with the sticks they could have gathered enough to use on sabbath. What if they already had a fire going and all the firewood. The reason for not gathering was so they could have the 7th day for worship of God.

[SUP]
Leviticus 23:3
3 [/SUP]Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

A holy convocation meant it was a sacred assembly.

interesting points, thanks for the input!

 

[john832]

Did you not read the scriptures I just gave where it showed that Jesus allowed the Apostles and the man He healed to do things on the Sabbath that was not lawful to do, and how He rebuked the Pharisees for wanting to hold the old mosaic law punishment for breaking the Sabbath on them.
Then in Hebrews 4 it shows how are Sabbath rest is in Him now, and not a given day.
In your faith by love and obedience to the Lord you become holy as he is holy and you enter His Sabbath rest.


1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Explain how Christ teaching that the Sabbath was NEVER intended to be a burden and that the restrictive laws the Pharisees put on it, now abrogates the Commandment?

 

[john832]

They were not to gather sticks on Sabbath or manna.The manna they collected a double portion on the 6th day to eat on sabbath. So with the sticks they could have gathered enough to use on sabbath. What if they already had a fire going and all the firewood. The reason for not gathering was so they could have the 7th day for worship of God.

[SUP]
Leviticus 23:3
3 [/SUP]Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

A holy convocation meant it was a sacred assembly.

The principle is not to earn your living or provide for your family by working on the Sabbath. It is to be set aside as a day for serving God and drawing closer to Him, not your employer.

 

[Dan_473]

Not in my mind. I think it's just splitting hairs over something God had no intention of it addressing.

That's cool... I just brought it up because you had said, "Besides, your pilot light is lit the whole time, so no fire is really being kindled.".

 

[john832]

Right here in post 13 I explained this......

Where in post 13 does it say, "Don't bother keeping the seventh day holy anymore, I have done away with it?"

 

[john832]

Well, as I said, I want to try not to convince anyone, (but if you're interested, here's my take)...

"Would you stay home to work on fixing it (or try to find someone who can fix it) or would you go to Church to worship God on the day?"

I would stay home and fix it, because I can gather with other believers any day.

"...spending time with my Father on our special day together."

Maybe this is the crux of where my views part from many lawkeepers... As a Christian, I see all days as a special time to spend with God... "Whatever we do in word or deed, let's do it all in the name of the Lord" or words to that affect... so, it's seven days a week, 24/7... to turn it around, are there some days that you don't want to think about God so much? or pray less?

And that is your prerogative, but God says this...

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So He blessed the seventh day and sanctified it (set it apart for holy use).

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God tells us there is one day, the seventh day, He set apart and made holy (hallowed). Yes, we can assemble with believers any and every day of the week but there is only one day that is sanctified and hallowed and that is the seventh day.

someone might say, "yes, but there have to be some days that you have to go to work to feed yourself, etc..." No, God feeds me... I do go to a place that God has directed me and do the things there that he has shown me to do... someone looking at it might call it a 'job'. But it is all holy to the Lord, because He has directed it from start to finish, and I do it in His name (that's my goal).

Not exactly what God says...

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

And we already discussed what these fires were for.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

It is also a holy convocation.

convocation:

H4744

מִקְרָא
miqrâ'
mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
Total KJV occurrences: 23

A holy convocation is a commanded public meeting for holy use.

Exo 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

Read plowing for earing here. So, no matter if you need to plow, or to harvest, on the seventh day "thou shalt rest".

Or someone might say, "don't you ever want to go to a movie or something for yourself?" No. I only want to do stuff for God. If God directs me to see a movie, then (imo) that direction might happen any day, since then it would be the Lord's work.

Peace, my man!

I am pretty sure going to see a movie on the Sabbath would not be doing the Lord's work...

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: