Kindle a fire on the Sabbath
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Personally, I don't consider running your furnace "kindling a fire". Sounds a little too legalistic and man-made for me. Besides, your pilot light is lit the whole time, so no fire is really being kindled.
I live in Colorado and about 9 years ago, God started teaching me about this verse with our wood stove. I started up a fire before sun down and wanted it to keep going. But I'm a lousy pyro, so I ended up staying awake most of the night to make sure the fire never went out.
Spiritual lesson? Am I as diligent to keep my fire and passion for God from going out as I was keeping the fire going that night?
I have lived in an apartment in Florida that did not have heat - actually kind of a live fire heat with a baby and would not use it to protect her from getting burned and it got down to 20 degrees for a few nights in a row. Got a space heater and it felt like lighting a match to try and keep warm in the bedroom we were in so yes I know what cold is. But this is a strawman argument just to try and get people riled up and not very practical questions that you are asking as the religious leaders kept adding rules to Gods law. in the 10 commandments there is nothing about lighting a fire.
If Jesus would talk about getting someone's donkey out of a hole on the Sabbath day He would certainly defend people staying warm on a cold Sabbath day as people are more important than a donkey or cattle or whatever fell in the hole. Pharisees/Strawmen need to crawl back under the rock they crawled out from underneath and worry more about the salvation of souls than trying hard not to keep the commandments God wrote with His own finger making them pretty important things to God. I choose to try to listen to Him on obeying His laws (10 Commandments). You can choose to do whatever you want as that is your choice and I have made mine and God will be our judge in the end. You can do whatever you want I nor God will force you to do anything and that is why it is called free will.
I would rather obey God from a heart of love as His laws are now written on my heart and not on stone like the first 10 were written than to try and continue to argue over a strawman argument of whether to turn the heat on or not on a cold day which happens to be the Sabbath. For the record my thermostat is set on auto so if the temp gets colder than 64 degrees in the house it would automatically kick on. In Florida this is rare so maybe I obey by default, but I like it cool I am not being a Pharisee worrying about working on the Sabbath to stay warm.
I hear this a lot but no one EVER quotes a scripture that shows that Christ IS the Sabbath. There are scriptures that say He is LORD of the Sabbath but none that say He is the Sabbath.
All one really needs to do is read the context...
Exo 35:1 And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
Exo 35:4 And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
Exo 35:5 Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
Exo 35:6 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
Exo 35:7 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
Exo 35:8 And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
Exo 35:9 And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.
and the instructions go on here about BUILDING the Tabernacle.
Let's read this passage in context with understanding...
The first thing God reminds the people of is that one does not do work, one's customary employment, on the Sabbath. Neither does one do home repairs, build fence or make hay.
Now that we God has established the very first principle, that work is not done on the Sabbath, He continues with the subject at hand, making the Tabernacle.
First thing to remember is that even though you are making the Tabernacle of God, you do not do work on the Sabbath. OK, we got this. Now let's look at the fire...
John Gill (the master of run-on sentences) writes this...
Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day. This law seems to be a temporary one, and not to be continued, nor is it said to be throughout their generations as elsewhere, where the law of the sabbath is given or repeated; it is to be restrained to the building of the tabernacle, and while that was about, to which it is prefaced; and it is designed to prevent all public or private working on the sabbath day, in anything belonging to that; having no fire to heat their tools or melt their metal, or do any thing for which that was necessary; for it can hardly be thought that this is to be taken in the strictest sense, as an entire prohibition of kindling a fire and the use of it on that day, which is so absolutely useful, and needful in various cases, and where acts of mercy and necessity require it; as in cold seasons of the year, for the warming and comforting of persons who otherwise would be unfit for religious exercises, and on the account of infants and aged persons, who could not subsist without it; and in cases of sickness, and various disorders which necessarily require it; and even for the preparation of food, which must be had on that day as on others, the sabbath being not a fast, but rather a festival, as it is with the Jews;
Matthew Henry has this in his commentary...
III. He begins with the law of the sabbath, because that was much insisted on in the instructions he had received (Exo_35:2, Exo_35:3): Six days shall work be done, work for the tabernacle, the work of the day that was now to be done in its day; and they had little else to do here in the wilderness, where they had neither husbandry nor merchandise, neither food to get nor clothes to make: but on the seventh day you must not strike a stroke, no, not at the tabernacle-work; the honour of the sabbath was above that of the sanctuary, more ancient and more lasting; that must be to you a holy day, devoted to God, and not be spent in common business. It is a sabbath of rest. It is a sabbath of sabbaths (so some read it), more honourable and excellent than any of the other feasts, and should survive them all. A sabbath of sabbatism, so others read it, being typical of that sabbatism or rest, both spiritual and eternal, which remains for the people of God, Heb_4:9. It is a sabbath of rest, that is, in which a rest from all worldly labour must be very carefully and strictly observed. It is a sabbath and a little sabbath, so some of the Jews would have it
Romans 14 is not about the Sabbath, neither is it about clean and unclean meats...
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
What is the gold standard here?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Now to the meat and potatoes…
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
From Bullingers Companion Bible…
Luke 18:12
twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.
Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
Shambles…
G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549
There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…
G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.
Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.
G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.
Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men? Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…
G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111
Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
So Christ, the One who spoke the fourth Commandment from Mt. Sinai, the One who had people put to death for breaking the Sabbath, changed His mind?
Even more so, do you suppose that Christ, the One who gave the fourth Commandment, has no insight as to what it would be like to sit in a 40 degree house?
Just curious Jason, when did God leave it up to each individual to determine right and wrong?
That is what got us in this mess in the first place...
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil."
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant [lust] to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
That is the part that people don't understand and want to debate.
You can clearly see that the Lord made changes from the old covenant to the new covenant that we are in. In the situations I posted from scripture showed how we are to follow the better standard that our Lord brought to us. To love, forgive, and have mercy on others, and not to stick to the written ordinances of the mosaic covenant. ( Colossians 2:14 )
You mean the One who said...
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Who's Covenant?
Exo 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Good point... I would start the quote a little earlier...
"3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, etc."
How often should we test a doctrine to see if it consents to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ? As often as it takes, I think...
A good spiritual lesson... I think my furnace has electric ignition... would that change anything?
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
We are not under the mosaic covenant of the old testament though, we are under the Lord's new covenant of the new testament of grace, love, forgiveness, and mercy.
The bible makes it clear that if you want to follow the laws of the mosaic covenant then you are subject to follow them all, so do you still sacrifice animals, do you still stone people to death for sins, should you still put people to death for working on the Sabbath, are you still held to not eating certain foods, and all the other written ordinances. No we are not, what we are held to follow is the moral values the law taught, not the written ordinances of it.
I can show you multiple scriptures in the NT that show things were changed from the OT to the NT, and yes I know it is God who issue's the covenant but each covenant is given a different set of standards to follow by.
The Bible speaks of seven different covenants, four of which (Abrahamic, Palestinian, Mosaic, Davidic) God made with the nation of Israel. Of those four, three are unconditional in nature; that is, regardless of Israel's obedience or disobedience, God still will fulfill these covenants with Israel. One of the covenants, the Mosaic Covenant, is conditional in nature. That is, this covenant will bring either blessing or cursing depending on Israel's obedience or disobedience. Three of the covenants (Adamic, Noahic, New) are made between God and mankind in general, and are not limited to the nation of Israel.
"...this is a strawman argument..."
I certainly don't think so... if no lawkeepers follow the letter of this law, then I'm interested in knowing that...
"...get people riled up..."
I hope no one gets riled up... that usually limits good discussion...
"...in the 10 commandments there is nothing about lighting a fire."
That's correct, it does occur later in Exodus 35... maybe elsewhere, I'm not sure...
"Pharisees/Strawmen need to crawl back under the rock they crawled out"
Sounds like a sensitive issue for you... you don't have to talk about this if you don't want to... an easy answer could be 'I basically ignore this commandment, except for its spiritual application'...
"You can choose to do whatever you want as that is your choice and I have made mine and God will be our judge in the end."
I'm trying not to convince anyone to make a different choice... I just wanted to know how this worked for various lawkeepers...
I understand this as not kindling a fire to do work with, not kindling a fire by which I am employed. One should look at all the various Commands concerning the Sabbath and use these to determine an overriding principle. The principle is, do not earn your living or provide your sustenance on the Sabbath. Do that the remaining six days a week. Reserve the Sabbath for Spiritual pursuits.
So (and I'm trying to just collect information here, I'm trying not to convince anyone), is there a kind of hierarchy of laws among lawkeepers? Like, I'm thinking the law about not having idols is considered really important. This law about a fire on the Sabbath, not so much...? I could see going to great lengths to avoid bowing down to idols, even if it meant great suffering... an interpretation like 'go ahead and bow down, just remember the spiritual meaning of the law' probably wouldn't sound right to most people...
(or maybe not... Naaman the Syrian gets permission to go to idol temple... sounds like not big deal there.)
But then, there is a sense, I think, that the 'idol' laws are really important, while the 'fire on the Sabbath' isn't really a big deal...
As I said, trying to collect info... thanks for the responses!
(or maybe not... Naaman the Syrian gets permission to go to idol temple... sounds like not big deal there.)
But then, there is a sense, I think, that the 'idol' laws are really important, while the 'fire on the Sabbath' isn't really a big deal...
As I said, trying to collect info... thanks for the responses!