Re: Catholic heresy (for the record)
Two blessings in one day, first Karraster and now you.
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Wow!
Two blessings in one day, first Karraster and now you.
My day has been blessed.
Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
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No problem we all make mistakes or at least I'm told that is the case.
Despite your unnecessarily snarky remark I will say that God has used men throughout time to accomplish His will. He used the heathen nations around Israel to bring judgment upon them through captivity so God can use 3rd century monks to assemble the books of the bible. Make no question about it as it was God and not the men that accomplished the work. I'm thinking it is quite presumptuous of you to say that they were Roman Catholic monks.
Seems curious that you are always robbing God of His glory and ascribing it to Rome. Curious indeed.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Re: Catholic heresy (for the record)
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Perhaps you have been especially good. I hope it continues for many days to come.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
That's the difference between those who believe the Bible and those who don't.
Believers of the Bible don't dimiss verses at face value.
So you reject God's word because it doesn't agree with your theology.
We don't judge the word of God by our theology,
rather, the word of God judges all theology.
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Then you gave to reject 1 John 5:16-17. Romans 8:1 does not contradict or trump over 1 John 5:16-17.
Romans 8:1: Notwithstanding this law of sin opposing the law of the spirit, and endeavouring to captivate us to sin, we can, by the succour of the grace of Jesus Christ, preserve ourselves from sin and damnation, by resisting sin, and attaching ourselves strongly to Jesus Christ, by faith and charity. Concupiscence is not sin. And they who have received a spiritual birth in Jesus Christ by baptism, and have remained faithful to the grace of their justification, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit, shall receive a recompense proportionate to their combats and labours. (Camlet)
Romans 8:1 does not give you a license to sin, it does not mean you are sinless by "faith alone", and if anything, it affirms different kinds of sin because no one can attach to Jesus with serious sins causing death. All sin is not the same. Driving at 2 miles over the limit is not the same as driving 100 miles over the limit.
Actually, it wasn't monks. They painstakingly made copies of the bible by hand in later years. The books of the Bible were first proven to be inspired (you just assume them to be) and compiled after 3 centuries of discernment by Catholic bishops, superintended by the Holy Spirit. That is the authentic historical record supported by Protestant and secular sources. The evidence is there for anyone who wants it.
If you want to believe the Bible fell from the sky, go ahead, but normally God uses men to do his work.
"robbing God of His glory and ascribing it to Rome"??? Oh come on, Roger. This is an anti-Catholic forum where "Rome" is constantly attacked. Look at the thread title. That alone is enough to rob God of His glory.
You have the incorrect perception of these verses. 1 John is telling believers that there are sins that do not cause physical death. 1 Corinthians 5 we have the apostle Paul advising the church to pray for the destruction of the flesh of one who was engaged in gross immorality. No indication of Spiritual death just physical death because of his sin.
People who trust Christ to forgive them of their sins and are born again by the washing of regeneration of the Holy Spirit can never dies again. Rom 8:1 no condemnation Jesus said any man who believes in Him though he were dead yet shall he live. He shall not see death but is passed from death unto eternal life.
For the unsaved person religious or not any sin and all sin results in death which is physical, Spiritual and eternal. Jesus said that He came not into the world to condemn the lost for they are condemned already but that He came to seek and to save.
You attempt to obfuscate the truth. Until a man is saved by grace received through faith, faith which comes from hearing the word of God he is lost and has no hope. No man deserves to be saved. No man can earn salvation. God saves those who call upon His Son Jesus Christ to save them and forgive all their sins. All their sins meaning all big small intentional and accidental. All now and for all of eternity. Past, present and future sins all covered by the blood of Christ all fully atoned for by Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us Who knew no sin that we might be the righteousness of God in Him.
I look to Christ to save me and I see God. God looks to me and sees Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
T
TaylorTG
Guest
Do you even what 'face value' means?
It's an idiom: To accept something as it first seems, without thought as to what else it could mean.
Do you seriously believe that infants can fall into the pits of eternal fire, where there is wailing and grinding of teeth?
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1 John 5:15-16 doesn't say there are sins that do not cause physical death, it says sins that do not lead to death. Big difference. There is nothing wrong with my perception.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. If "destruction of the flesh" means physical death, how can his spirit be saved if he is dead? Maybe it means a slow rotting of diseases so the person can come to his senses. Unless you want to believe Paul is issuing a death sentence. There is nothing wrong with my perception.
Please provide one verse in scripture regarding baptism where water is separated from spirit, and where spirit is symbolic.
There is nothing wrong with my perceptions.
How very Catholic of you.
Agreed, but grace received through faith is just the beginning, and it says hearing the word of N
God, it says nothing about reading it, and the Bible warns against self-interpretation, and the Bible says nothing about "faith alone".
Agreed. Earning salvation is a Pelagian heresy condemned by the Church in the 6th century. Yet this myth about Catholics "earning salvation" just won't go away.
Your unbiblical man made theory about "all sin is the same" has been demolished, so you mention imputed or forensic justification, another reformist invention.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
All sin is equal in the eyes of the Lord, except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
All sins lead to death, except those that were repented of and asked forgiveness of. If you read the whole chapter of 1 John 5, you will see that the sins not leading to death are those that the believer had already petitioned in prayer for forgiveness of.
I would like to see one person show a scripture that shows a list of sins that one person can do, and not worry about a spiritual death if they do not repent or ask forgiveness of them. You will not find it.
All sins lead to death, except those that were repented of and asked forgiveness of. If you read the whole chapter of 1 John 5, you will see that the sins not leading to death are those that the believer had already petitioned in prayer for forgiveness of.
I would like to see one person show a scripture that shows a list of sins that one person can do, and not worry about a spiritual death if they do not repent or ask forgiveness of them. You will not find it.
For a natural religious man perhaps. Scripture is clear there is only one sin unto death. Since saved souls cannot die it must refer to physical death.
Perhaps from a natural mans perspective. Paul is saying that if this man is what he professes a Christian then when his flesh is dead his spirit will be with the Lord. Paul makes no judgment about the mans salvation because Paul cannot judge the validity of his profession in the absence of a walk that reflects the Lord.
Perhaps for a natural man but the Holy Spirit baptizes unto eternal life. Titus 3:5 Holy Spirit is never symbolic and water is never anything more than symbolic.
Nothing wrong with the correct usage of the term. Universal accurately describes the church that is the living body of Christ.How very Catholic of you.
Grace is wholly sufficient. Nothing is needed in addition to grace. Faith is how we know of grace. Faith that we hear or read from Gods word through which the Holy Spirit illuminates our heart to Gods truth.
Probably because Rome continues to frustrate grace with sacraments and rites that are completely man made and of no Spiritual merit.
Seems to me you have simply confirmed it. Scripture says that those who are under the law if they offend in one point they are guilty of the whole law. God does not and will not tolerate any sin in His presence. All sin separates man form God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Isn't it odd that the only ones we in danger of this sin are the perverse religious folks. Odd indeed.
Christians cannot sin against the Holy Spirit. They can grieve or even quench the Holy Spirits ministry in their hearts but they cannot sin against the Holy Spirit. By sin I mean blaspheme in this application.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God used whom He pleased to preserve and protect His word. You can argue the Catholic church but God finds men even in the Catholic church who know Christ and are true born again Christians. God always has a remnant to serve Him.
It was God who acted not men. It was not a church but God who gave us the bible.
Now all you need to do is believe it and get saved.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
So a person can not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and follow Him, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit for part or most of their life. And then through trials and tribulations in their life turn away from that guidance and deny the Holy Spirit to work in their life. If you believe this can not happen then i am sorry to say it does happen, and even the bible says it does which is shown in the parable of the sower and the seed.
The Lord will not allow a believer to be tested above that which he is able to bear but will with the testing make a way for him to bear it. 1 Corinthians 10:13
Perhaps your understanding needs a slight adjustment.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger,
We use logic and show you the errors of your statements and you elevate yourself saying things like, "perhaps the natural religious man believes..." You believe that your interpretation of Scripture is Divine and ours is not. Very well. Then let me ask you ONE question, When did God give you this ability to divide Scripture infallibly, more than the Apostles and any Christian minister in history?
We use logic and show you the errors of your statements and you elevate yourself saying things like, "perhaps the natural religious man believes..." You believe that your interpretation of Scripture is Divine and ours is not. Very well. Then let me ask you ONE question, When did God give you this ability to divide Scripture infallibly, more than the Apostles and any Christian minister in history?
You accuse me of infallibility which I never claimed. I have only the guidance of the Holy Spirit given only to those who are in Christ. John 16:13 If someone presents an exegesis that forces the scripture to contradict itself they are in error.
I recognize that many here claim to be Christians but do not have possession of the Holy Spirit and are not of Christ but are pretenders. It is obvious by their positions on the core doctrines of Christianity. They have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof.
A religious person is not necessarily a Christian. Most of what claims to be Christian isn't.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
No my understanding does not need to be adjusted.
I listen to the Lord Jesus, and He said in the sower and the seed some will follow Him and then turn from Him do to trials, tribulations, and even false teaching. If somebody who is a believer can not fall away and be cast into the lake of fire, then our Lord would not have given those warnings.
Let's look at 1 Corinthians 10:13 you gave,
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Notice how in this last half of the scripture he provides a way of escape, and that it also says that you may be able not you will endure it.
The way of escape is through Him, but some like i said will reject that and falter or fall away and not endure.
This goes with what the Lord Jesus said in this scripture;
Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
The underlying flaw is that you believe that a Christian can lose their salvation. Therefore all your doctrine on this subject is fatally flawed. You incorrectly interpret the parable of the sower so your understanding of many things is incorrect.
If salvation is of merit then it can be lost. If salvation is by grace and the merit of Christ then it can never be lost for it is secure in the Giver.
One of the great evidences against Roman Catholicism is the doctrine of purgatory where the soul is cleansed of sin by fire in the afterlife. True Christians believe and know that their sins are completely and forever forgiven by grace through faith. It is the blood of Christ that makes complete atonement for sin. All sin past, present and future sin are all under the blood. God has said He has removed it as far as the east is from the west to remember it no more.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Honestly, you sound more and more akin to people like Fred Phelps than Christ. I realize I often get too heated in these conversations, but Roger, you don't stop. You never stop to honestly think that there may be those in Christ who disagree with you.