It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

Now for some reason it may please the itching ear to make up something else,
but EXACTLY what one MUST DO to be saved is here below:'

Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ]
& you shall be saved.

So simple, so clear; so repugnant to the pride of sinful man who wants his sinful works labeled good.

 

[Atwood]

The fruit abides:

You* did not chose me, but I chose you*
and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit,
and that your fruit should abide."

< John 15:16

It seems to me that this is another fulfillment of the general principle that when a passage seems at first glance to support the idea of believers ending up damned, just read on a bit further for the explanation.

 

[nowyouseem033]

WOW... once again 2 Peter 2:20-22 does not speak of salvation. Ive already replied to why it doesn't speak about salvation on another post, so Im not going to do it again.
Okay.
There is more scriptural support that claim that salvation cannot be lost and that God eternally secures those that are saved and his.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creature, the old has gone the new has come".
(If salvation can be lost, then the new creature that you are could be reversed and cancelled)

1 Peter 1:18-19 "redeemed"
The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God himself would have to revoke his purchase that he paid for with the precious blood of Christ.

Romans 5:1 "justify"
To justify means to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus Christ as Saviour are declared righteous by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on HIS WORD and undeclare what he had previously declared. (YEAH RIGHT)

John 3:16
Eternal life is a promise of eternity forever in heaven with God. God promises believe and you will have eternal life. For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever how then can God break his promise by taking away eternal life.

So to sum it up for you my brother:

A Christian cannot be unnewly created, Redemption cannot be undone, eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal, and salvation cannot be reversed.

Jesus said "It is finished" meaning he paid for your past sins present sins and future sins.
Complete meaning final.
To say salvation can be lost is to say that Christ only died for your past sins and present sins but not your future sins.
Which means Christ should of said "It is Half finished" LOL

"What began in the spirit cannot be COMPLETED by FLESH"

Romans 8:38-39
John 10:28-29
Jude 24-25

Salvation is sealed.
I will say that you can lose sanctification to some degree but never salvation.

some philosophical points:

If it is God who saves you, then it is God who keeps you.
If it is on you to maintain your salvation then you are dependant on yourself to keep your salvation. (wheres the faith in that)

Salvation is of the Lord.

The question isn't "Can I lose my Salvation" because this statement presumes that its by your ability that gets you saved.
HOW SO YOU ASK???? simple... "Can I" refers to your ability.. hint hint works

The question should be this. "Can GOD lose his child"
Simple answer NO!!

The story of the sheep and the shepherd is great comfort to us all.
"and if one strays will not the shepherd leave the 99 and go after the 1, so that he loses NONE"
Notice a sheep is straying but it is GOD who goes after that sheep not you....
and perhaps the best and most encouraging thing about ONCE saved always saved and this story about the sheep is that

You may lose a relationship with him (temporary), but he will never lose a relationship with you (eternally secured)

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security in the OT

John 15 says nothing about losing salvation. In fact, "salvation" never occurs in the passage about the Vine & Branches.

It was argued that a branch in Christ (in Me) was removed in 15:2, but that is a doubtful interpretation. In John 15:1-7, the phrase "in Me" occurs 6 times. In every other instance (besides 15:2) "in Me" modifies a verb, not a noun. (For example, consider "Abide in Me." In that commandment "in Me" modifies a verb (abide), not a noun (like branch). It is doubtful that one should translate 15:2 as "Every branch in Me not bearing fruit." The rest of the passage indicates that if a believer abides in Christ He does bear fruit. It is impossible to abide in Christ and not bear fruit.

The more probable translation of 15:2 is "Every branch not bearing fruit in Me . . . ." Thus it speaks not of a "branch in Me," but of failing to bear fruit in Me; that is, failing to bear the fruit that comes by necessity when one is in fellowship with the Lord Jesus.

This is an allegory. One does not establish doctrine from allegory, but use it to illustrate truth from propositional non-allegorical teaching.

Moreover, it is possible to translate 15:2 this way:

πᾶν κλῆμα ἐν ἐμοὶ μὴ φέρον καρπὸν αἴρει αὐτό =
Every branch not bearing fruit in Me, He takes it up.

The verb αἴρει has a number of meanings. The first one in the BDAG lexicon is "1.to raise to a higher place or position,lift up, take up, pick up"

as in "take up your bed & walk."

The verse might be interpreted to mean that the branches that do not bear fruit are lifted up by the loving husbandman so that they can get more sun.

I am not subscribing to that POV here, but showing that some of the conclusions some may jump to from this passage are questionable.

On the other hand, eternal security is not questionable, but the plain teaching of God's word. the prophet John does not contradict himself:

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[Kerry]

The stupid thing is that most of you already have lost your salvation. by placing your faith in your works and not the cross. Look at the OT, when Israel placed faith in God they did well and when they grew fat they placed their faith in there self and the Philistines took their food. Food which they needed to live and plunged them into famine and many died or lost their salvation.

 

[Atwood]

The stupid thing is that most of you already have lost your salvation. by placing your faith in your works and not the cross. Look at the OT, when Israel placed faith in God they did well and when they grew fat they placed their faith in there self and the Philistines took their food. Food which they needed to live and plunged them into famine and many died or lost their salvation.

Kerry, what you posted above in part smells like strange incense to me. Were you on drugs when you wrote that one?

"Lost" & "salvation" never even occur in one verse in the Bible.

Kerry, it is noted that you quote not one verse of scripture to support your POV. The Lord Jesus is the one in whom to place your trust, a person, not an artifact. I could accept what you say as a metaphor, but actually it is a person to trust.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security, Not Rabbit Paths

Let us focus:

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Kerry]

Good stuff Atwood as long as our faith is in the work of the cross and not our own. O thought that I was talking biblical fluent people. But if I need to point out every point as to kindergartners I guess I can do that.

 

[Kerry]

Re: Eternal Security, Not Rabbit Paths

Isaiah 41:10

I will uphold you with the right hand of My righteousness.

Whose righteousness? Mine or yours? How do we obtain this righteousness?

 

[Kerry]

Go to biblegateway and look up endured.​ If it's all said and done and no matter what we do then why endure?

 

[Atwood]

Go to biblegateway and look up endured.​ If it's all said and done and no matter what we do then why endure?

Here's why:

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.

(pretty good reason for enduring).

 

[Kerry]

but what about those who do not endure? they accepted Christ and did not endure?

 

[Atwood]

but what about those who do not endure? they accepted Christ and did not endure?

Kerry, let's refrain from making up things. God's Word rules!

The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable!

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security, Not Rabbit Paths

Isaiah 41:10

I will uphold you with the right hand of My righteousness.

Whose righteousness? Mine or yours?

How do we obtain this righteousness?

You obtain it the same way you attained sinfulness, through your representative, through the one in whose race you are incorporated. You must be incorporated into the race of Christ as the natural man is in Adam.

2 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:— 13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam’s transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many. 16 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive theabundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. 18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so
through the obedience of the one the many shall be made righteous. 20 And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly: 21 that, as sin reigned in death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Atwood]

The hand of my Savior is strong,
And the arm of my Savior is long;
Thru sunshine or rain;
In loss or in gain;
The blood flows from Calv'ry
To cleanse every stain.

I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. . . .
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me, 15 even as the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. . . .

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.

He holds my hand,
Jesus holds my hand;
Safely to Heaven He leads the way,
He is my keeper from day to day;
He holds my hand;
Jesus holds my hand;
The road may be long,
But my SAvior is strong;
& He holds my hand.

 

[Atwood]

Fruit Remains; Tutti Frutti, Oh Rutti !

Souls won to the Lord REMAIN!

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

< Rom 1:13:

oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.



Tutti frutti, oh rutti, . . .
Wop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom!

 

[Atwood]

Born Again Christians Endure to the End.

Thus it is senseless to quote (out of context) the Olivet Discourse about "he who endures to the end the same will be saved." For first of all, that passage is about making it to the end of the Tribulation & being saved from persecution/troubles on earth.

Second, All Christians do endure. Why? Because Christ prayed that the they would endure, that is, abide. Now who thinks Christ's prayers are ineffective?

Souls won to the Lord ENDURE!

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain (Greek word meno = abide, remain).:

< Rom 1:13:

oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

BDAG Lexicon (abbridged) on meno:

μένω
1. remain, stay, intr.
a. a pers. or thing remains where he or it is.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
α. of a location stay, oft. in the special sense live, dwell, lodge
ποῦ μένεις; where do you live? J 1:38.
W. prep.
ἐν τῇ ἀμπέλῳ remain on the vine, . . . 15:4b.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
β. in transf. sense, of someone who does not leave a certain realm or sphere:
remain, continue, abide
ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ τοῦ Χριστοῦ remain in the teaching of Christ 2J 9a; cp. vs. 9b.
The phrase μ. ἔν τινι is a favorite of J to denote an inward, enduring personal communion.

—Vice versa, of someth. that remains in someone;
likew. in Johannine usage:
of the word of God 1J 2:14.

The possession is shown to be permanent by
the expr. ἔχειν τι μένον ἐν ἑαυτῷ have someth. continually, permanently 1J 3:15;
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

b. a pers. or thing continues in the same state 1 Cor 7:20, 24.
μ. μετά τινος remain in fellowship w. someone 1J 2:19.

2. to continue to exist, remain, last, persist, continue to live, intr.
a. of pers. (Ps 9:8 ὁ κύριος εἰς τ. αἰῶνα μ.; 101:13)
Pregnant remain (alive), be alive J 21:22f; 1 Cor 15:6; Phil 1:25; Rv 17:10.

b. of things
of a city ἔμεινεν ἂν μέχρι τῆς σήμερον it would have lasted until today Mt 11:23.
μένουσα πόλις a permanent city Hb 13:14.
—ἡ φιλαδελφία μενέτω continue 13:1
—J 9:41; 15:16. εἰ τὸ ἔργον μενεῖ if the work survives 1 Cor 3:14.
λόγος θεοῦ endure 1 Pt 1:23
τὸ μένον what is permanent

3. wait for, await, trans.

 

[know1]

Re: Fruit Remains; Tutti Frutti, Oh Rutti !

Souls won to the Lord REMAIN!

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

< Rom 1:13:

oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.



Tutti frutti, oh rutti, . . .
Wop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom!

I mean no offense when I say this sir, but it is said that Paul the Apostle wrote 2/3rds of the new testament, I think you have topped him on this very thread.
I might suggest you broaden your field of expertise, if you haven't already, and find out if there is more to the kingdom of God than salvation only.
Nothing wrong with defending your belief, but do you talk about anything else?
I have to admit, the number of subjects I have studied in the bible, come woefully short of most people on this forum.

 

[cfultz3]

Kerry, let's refrain from making up things. God's Word rules!

The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable!

Please, let us do just that.....

It does not repent God that He invited the Gentiles also, neither does it repent Him for having giving those previously mentioned gifts to the Jews.

By all means, let us not forget, so that we might endure until the end:

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[Alligator]

WOW... once again 2 Peter 2:20-22 does not speak of salvation. Ive already replied to why it doesn't speak about salvation on another post, so Im not going to do it again.
Okay.
There is more scriptural support that claim that salvation cannot be lost and that God eternally secures those that are saved and his.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creature, the old has gone the new has come".
(If salvation can be lost, then the new creature that you are could be reversed and cancelled)

1 Peter 1:18-19 "redeemed"
The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God himself would have to revoke his purchase that he paid for with the precious blood of Christ.

Romans 5:1 "justify"
To justify means to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus Christ as Saviour are declared righteous by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on HIS WORD and undeclare what he had previously declared. (YEAH RIGHT)

John 3:16
Eternal life is a promise of eternity forever in heaven with God. God promises believe and you will have eternal life. For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever how then can God break his promise by taking away eternal life.

So to sum it up for you my brother:

A Christian cannot be unnewly created, Redemption cannot be undone, eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal, and salvation cannot be reversed.

Jesus said "It is finished" meaning he paid for your past sins present sins and future sins.
Complete meaning final.
To say salvation can be lost is to say that Christ only died for your past sins and present sins but not your future sins.
Which means Christ should of said "It is Half finished" LOL

"What began in the spirit cannot be COMPLETED by FLESH"

Romans 8:38-39
John 10:28-29
Jude 24-25

Salvation is sealed.
I will say that you can lose sanctification to some degree but never salvation.

some philosophical points:

If it is God who saves you, then it is God who keeps you.
If it is on you to maintain your salvation then you are dependant on yourself to keep your salvation. (wheres the faith in that)

Salvation is of the Lord.

The question isn't "Can I lose my Salvation" because this statement presumes that its by your ability that gets you saved.
HOW SO YOU ASK???? simple... "Can I" refers to your ability.. hint hint works

The question should be this. "Can GOD lose his child"
Simple answer NO!!

The story of the sheep and the shepherd is great comfort to us all.
"and if one strays will not the shepherd leave the 99 and go after the 1, so that he loses NONE"
Notice a sheep is straying but it is GOD who goes after that sheep not you....
and perhaps the best and most encouraging thing about ONCE saved always saved and this story about the sheep is that

You may lose a relationship with him (temporary), but he will never lose a relationship with you (eternally secured)

This post is so full of error I don't know where to begin.
First of all, 2 Peter 2:20-21 absolutely does speak to salvation. People who attach themselves to the false doctrine of OSAS try to explain a away verses like this so as to try and make it fit their doctrine.

Have you never considered scriptures like 1 John 1:7-9. There is a very important little word in that verse and it is IF. IF we walk in the light we have ,nothing to worry about. The implication is obvious to,those who don't walk in the light.

you also fail to consider the fact that we can walk away from Christ on our own and go back into the world. Christ doesn't force us to follow Him.