It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Atwood · Aug 19, 2014

Prophet Peter Proclaimed Eternal Security

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that fades not away,
reserved in heaven for you,
who by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

incorruptible √
undefiled √
fades not away √
reserved √
by the power of God guarded √

What lies behind all this?
Note how Prophet Peter saith,
"according to his great mercy begat us again."

"according to his great mercy"

In other words salvation is by grace, not works.
The sinner pleads, "God be merciful to me a sinner."
The Pharisaic self-righteous jerk pleads his supposed good works
( give tithes of all that I possess; I fast 3 X a week, etc.)

according to his great mercy begat us again.
Now how can a new nature given by God even sin at all?

9 "Whosoever is begotten of God does no sin, because his seed abides in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God." -- 1 John 3.

To be sure the Christian retains the Old Man which is an alter self which can spring into action & sin. But at death this Old Man is gone. There is no way that a child of God can become a non-child of God ("his seed abides in him") any more than a man could ever stop being the child of his human father in this life.

Behind it all is the new birth. The sinner by God's grace (upon trusting Christ as Savior) gets a new birth, according to his great mercy begat us again, becoming a child of God.

As a bonus, let me tell you a secret about the Lord Jesus (shhh!)
You reckon somebody told ol' Pete this secret?:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Cassian · Aug 19, 2014

Atwood said:

by resident heretic Cassian; just his word, which goes nowhere.

Once Saved, Saved! Eternal Security. The prove is conclusive.

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because
thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect?
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]

It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth?
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]

It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]
, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

PRAISE THE AUTHOR & PERFECTER OF OUR FAITH!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins!!!

If it was just my word you would have an easy time refuting what I state. However, you can neither find support for OSAS, nor can you find anything that refutes what I stated.

Your proof is conclusive that OSAS is a false gospel. Everytime scripture is cited showing it is false, you find it necessary to redefine terms, or just deny what it says. You have become quite consistant with your mantra. Most of it is your false proof texts which have nothing to do with OSAS and your strawman that you need to knock down which no one else has ever stated.

Cassian · Aug 19, 2014

Atwood said:

The only person I see and read that does not understand salvation is you.
the meaning you are ascribing does not save either. It ONLY justifies one. Your biggest error here is that you assume that being justified by faith, saves a person. Scripture NEVER makes that statement.

The ONLY place one can find such a statement is in Anselm's satisfaction theory of atonement.
Also, faith ONLY is unscriptural.

Cassian · Aug 19, 2014

Re: Prophet Peter Proclaimed Eternal Security

Atwood said:

I just marvel at the unique way you try to emphasize your incorrect understandiing of scripture.
You cite a text that is one of the most profound statements against OSAS which is I Pet 1:1-5.
You cited the text, but you NEVER finish the text, you stop short of the word "faith". That one word sinks OSAS to the bottom of the sea every time. It is our faith, and it is a faith that must be continuous and active. It is NOT a faith alone, nor is it a faith that is maintained by the Holy Spirit. You are being held responsible for your faith, you and you alone. No faith, no power of God. Very simple understanding.

However, I already know you have twisted this and other texts out of context just to support a false teaching of OSAS.

Atwood · Aug 20, 2014

Some objector has the gall to claim that "through faith" destroys the plain sense of this 1 Peter passage. And he claimed falsely that I stopped short of the faith part of the verse. But the means does not negate the facts, blessed facts of the passage. So the reader can chose to believe the objector or the Word of God, like Eve who chose whether or not to believe God or the serpent who said, "Ye shall not surely die." And like the serpent, the objector just says things without Bible proof (which BTW seems common for him).

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that fades not away,
reserved in heaven for you,
who by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

incorruptible √
undefiled √
fades not away √
reserved √
by the power of God guarded √

What lies behind all this?
Note how Prophet Peter saith,
"according to his great mercy begat us again."

"according to his great mercy"

In other words salvation is by grace, not works.
The sinner pleads, "God be merciful to me a sinner."
The Pharisaic self-righteous jerk pleads his supposed good works
( give tithes of all that I possess; I fast 3 X a week, etc.)

according to his great mercy begat us again.
Now how can a new nature given by God even sin at all?

9 "Whosoever is begotten of God does no sin, because his seed abides in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God." -- 1 John 3.

To be sure the Christian retains the Old Man which is an alter self which can spring into action & sin. But at death this Old Man is gone. There is no way that a child of God can become a non-child of God ("his seed abides in him") any more than a man could ever stop being the child of his human father in this life.

Behind it all is the new birth. The sinner by God's grace (upon trusting Christ as Savior) gets a new birth, according to his great mercy begat us again, becoming a child of God.

As a bonus, let me tell you a secret about the Lord Jesus (shhh!)
You reckon somebody told ol' Pete this secret?:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Atwood · Aug 20, 2014

Cassian said:

Your straw man Anselm doesn't prove anything. Faith/belief brings both salvation & justification, apart from works. Salvation is the benefits that come from a gracious Savior to the one who trusts Hims as Savior. (a pity you refuse his grace). One of the benefits of salvation is being declared righteous (justification). Both salvation and justification are said to come via faith/belief & nothing else when a man is saved.

Do you believe the scripture which says the following?

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith.And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one should boast.

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

Eph 1:10ff
in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto
salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 4:1ff
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham
believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. . . . that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; . . . 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause
it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Gal 2:15-16
16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham.

Philip 3:8-9
that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that
have faith unto the saving of the soul.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. . . . ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Atwood · Aug 20, 2014

Cassian said:

As so common with Cassian, he just runs on, just saying things -- so there is no point in pondering it. One can chose to believe his personal canards or the scripture I posted to which he has no answer:

Once Saved, Saved! Eternal Security. The proof is conclusive.

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because
thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, thenyou also with him shall be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect?
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]

It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth?
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]

It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]
, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father…1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and betheir God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God areirrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

PRAISE THE AUTHOR & PERFECTER OF OUR FAITH!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins!!!

Cassian · Aug 20, 2014

Atwood said:

Your straw man Anselm doesn't prove anything. Faith/belief brings both salvation & justification, apart from works. Salvation is the benefits that come from a gracious Savior to the one who trusts Hims as Savior. (a pity you refuse his grace). One of the benefits of salvation is being declared righteous (justification). Both salvation and justification are said to come via faith/belief & nothing else when a man is saved.

Do you believe the scripture which says the following?

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith.And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one should boast.

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

Eph 1:10ff
in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto
salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 4:1ff
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham
believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. . . . that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; . . . 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause
it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Gal 2:15-16
16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham.

Philip 3:8-9
that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that
have faith unto the saving of the soul.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. . . . ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

All good texts but nothing in support of OSAS. Justification does not mean SALVATION. Salvation is attained at the end of one's life. We inherit salvation through our faith. There is no guarantee of one's faith. Therein lies your incorrect understanding and your support for OSAS.

It may work for whatever it is that you believe, but scripture has never supported OSAS. It only works in the false theory of predestination whereby man is not an active moral agent.

Cassian · Aug 20, 2014

Atwood said:

As so common with Cassian, he just runs on, just saying things -- so there is no point in pondering it. One can chose to believe his personal canards or the scripture I posted to which he has no answer:

Once Saved, Saved! Eternal Security. The proof is conclusive.

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because
thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, thenyou also with him shall be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect?
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]

It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth?
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]

It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature
[NO, NOT CASSIAN!]
, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father…1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and betheir God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God areirrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

PRAISE THE AUTHOR & PERFECTER OF OUR FAITH!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins!!!

Where is the evidence for OSAS. Most of these texts all have conditions attached. Not a single verse that says we are saved absolutely, by faith alone. None, nada, zilch. 3948 posts and not a single verse in support of OSAS. All you have supported is the erroneous foundational framework for OSAS which is predestination. Lots of man made theories, but no scriptural support as scripture has always been understood from the beginning.

Atwood · Aug 20, 2014

Cassian said:

Wrong, salvation is attained the moment a man trusts Christ as Savior. As my texts proved, both salvation & justification are by faith, apart from works. Salvation includes all the blessings God gives the Christian upon His faith in the Lord Jesus, and one of those is a declaration of righteousness (justification). Anyone who cares is invited to compare your word with God's word, which I posted.

Anyone considering Christ a mere chance giver, is urged to repent of failing to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior and do it NOW!

Salvation is attained at an instant in life; it does not wait to the end of life.

Now is the day of salvation! Here is the proof:

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.

In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.

he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

Cassian · Aug 21, 2014

Atwood said:

You make a lot of claims but cannot seem to back them up. No place does scripture every gurarantee one's faith. You have yet to post such a verse.

Also, there is a vast difference in possessing salvation and actually inheriting it. The scriptural fact is that many who possessed it, gave it up by returning to their sinful ways. As long as man is alive, man cannot guarantee his faith. Faith must be nurtured, matured, worked at, increased and we do that through love, obedience.

You also conflate what Christ did for mankind as if He did it ONLY to believers. (ie)

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

The above text is addressing the work of Christ that was accomplished through His Incarnation, death and resurrection. It applies to all men, the world. Without the salvation from the fall, (death and sin) there can be no calling to be holy, (to become believers).

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. [/quote] Again, this is referencing mankind. Christ gave life to mankind, an eternal physical existence, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, all address this. Spiritually we are made alive IN Christ, not with Christ. Christ gave life to the world through His Incarnation. Once you understand these biblical facts, it might clear up some of your confusion and error.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.
..
Again, the above text is addressing the work of Christ. It is the justification of all things. Col 1:20. It is why the text even makes the distinction between the justification to life, that we SHALL be saved from His wrath, (which is what we do by and through faith. You are confused over the word "justify - justification" because it does not mean the legal definition you are giving it. It is relational, it means to be put into a correct relationship. It does not mean salvation, or OSAS, or guranteed eternal life with Christ.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)
For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

You aught to select better texts, but then you are as confused as to what scripture means, but the words you darkened refute OSAS. It is through faith that we are being saved, not that we have actually been saved. Christ saved everyone from death and sin, and is calling all men to repentance so that one can join with Christ in a mutual, covenantal relationship through which we can attain eternal life.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

this texts gives us three stages in our salvation. The first (being saved) is all men. All men were saved so that each individual man can by faith (justification) be joined with Christ (baptism) the washing and the subsequent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

So, besides the misapplication of most of your texts, and misunderstanding of how a person is individually saved by and through faith, none of your texts even address OSAS. None of the texts state that one's faith is guaranteed and that upon belief, (faith only) one is actually declared spiritually saved.

Why not spend your time trying to find texts that actually support your premise.

Atwood · Aug 21, 2014

Cassian said:

Straw man. I didn't say scripture guaranteed man's faith in my post which gave absolute proof that salvation is instantaneous, not just waiting on the outcome of some judgment. Neither did I negated that scripture guarantees man's faith. But what I did assert is that both salvation & justification are by faith, not by works, & I proved it conclusively from scripture.

What is your proof of that?

On the contrary, I have posted absolute proof that one does not lose salvation. That concept is not in scripture. You don't seem to understand salvation. Salvation is not the outcome of judgment; salvation is the Lord Jesus having mercy on us wretched sinners who deserve nothing good. But solely upon trusting Him as SAvior, we shall never perish but have everlasting life.

The inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, fades not away; and it is guarded by the power of the omnipotent God. That is proved by scripture quoted, along with a huge amount of other passages.

He who began a good work in you [not Cassian, but believers] will complete it.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. Once you are His People, you shall be saved from your sins.

Cassian, why do you go on like that -- that is just you, no Bible proof. It is not a fact at all. He who is begotten of God receives new birth and becomes a child of God. One cannot be unborn again. Your Father is a permanent fact.

Do you not realize that all those words you heaped on 2 Tim 1:9 are not in the text -- that is your imagination. The us in 2 Tim 1:9 is not all mankind; it is believers. Only believers have been given the Holy Spirit and can stop sinning & love. Only believers can suffer hardship with the gospel by God's power. Common men are described in Rom 1-3 quote differently.

Context:

For God gave us not a Spirit of fearfulness; but of power and love and discipline. 8 Be not ashamed therefore of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but suffer hardship with the gospel according to the power of God; 9 who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, 10 but hath now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 whereunto I was appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher. 12 For which cause I suffer also these things: yet I am not ashamed; for I know him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that he is able to guard that which He has committed unto me against that day.

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. Again, this is referencing mankind [baloney]. Christ gave life to mankind, an eternal physical existence, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, all address this. Spiritually we are made alive IN Christ, not with Christ. Christ gave life to the world through His Incarnation. Once you understand these biblical facts, it might clear up some of your confusion and error.[/quote]

Those are not biblical facts, just your imagination.

It is preposterous to claim that the us in Eph 2:5 is all mankind instead of believers, those who have been saved through faith. Since men are disobedient & do not trust Christ as Savior (faith), this passage cannot = all men. The us in this passage is those who have believed by been saved through faith (not by being born in the world already saved).

Context:

Eph. 2:1
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Christ has not made all men alive and seated them in Heaven with Christ by His death on the cross. If that were so, then the Ephesians could not have been spiritually dead, living by the spirit who works in the disobedient, then changed to being alive. The fact that men in general are now experiencing the spirit of disobedience means that men are in general not saved. The men saved in this passage were saved through faith -- & that cannot = all men. All have not faith.

Utter nonsense. All men are not righteous, not justified, only those who have faith. Men in general have the poison of asps under the tongue; there is none righteous no not one; all man's righteousnesses are as filthy rags. 1 Col 1:20 does not support your imagination. Now since you go on and just post words with no scripture, it falls of its own weight.

poppycock, Rom 5 says we are saved by Christ's life, not by our works.

Your claims about justification are just you making up stuff. I proved to you that both salvation and justification are said to be by faith, apart from works. As salvation comprises all the blessings the Lord gives us by grace through faith, it includes our declaration of righteousness, justification.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)
For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

Nonsense, it is a fact that believers are being saved, as He promised for example in Acts 16. We are not perishing, but being saved. It doesn't say we are put on probation & given a chance. The passage proves that salvation is a present reality & disproves your claim that it awaits the future, as after a judgment. You seem to have forgotten what was the debate here. Do you now retract that salvation only is something awarded in the future, like at the end of life?

Your unscriptural claims require no attention as they have no scripture.

he

Click to expand...

Nonsense. Just look at the word us in context. Us contrasts believers with the lost. The unbelievers have not been washed in new birth nor renewed. The Lord Jesus said that "Ye must be born again," not "You have already been born again."

Let me remind you of the current topic:

Salvation is attained at an instant in life; it does not wait to the end of life.

Now is the day of salvation! Here is the proof:

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.

In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you haveeternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.

he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

The verses were quoted not for eternal security, but to disprove your contention that salvation was something that awaited the future. Now you are claiming that all men are saved. And thus you contradict yourself. To oppose salvation now, you first tried to do it by claiming it is not now because future. Now you try to say it is past & for all men. My scripture proved conclusively that salvation is instantaneous & present.

Atwood · Aug 21, 2014

Absolute Proof of Eternal Security

Do you believe God's Word?
What hinders you from not trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior,
& insisting He is no more than a chance-giver?

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Cassian · Aug 21, 2014

Atwood,

but none of these are at issue. The issue is OSAS. OSAS says as its primary premise that a beleiver cannot lose faith. Salvation is not instantaneous either. We possess it when we enter Christ through baptism which is entrance into Christ. But having it does not guarantee it since it all depends on our faith. Scripture has not support or text that says man can guarantee his faith. Which is why OSAS is false. We are in a relational covenant that has stipulations and conditions in order ot actually inherit the promise of salvation (eternal life).
In all of these posts you have yet to produce any verse that says man can guarantee his faith. I know you cannot do this which is why OSAs is false and has always been false. The only religious system in which is has validity is the Reformed view of predestination. In that system man is not a free moral agent. God is the sole activator of all that transpires regarding what man does. This is not scriptural either, it is actually antithetical to scripture.
I doubt that you even understand the issue at hand. Most of your citations don't even address the believer in many cases.

which is your personal interpretation. You even dismiss Calvin and claim the theory as your personal theory. However, as scripture has always been believed and understood from the beginning, it is a false concept and quite unbiblical.

Which has nothing to do with OSAS. If OSAS was actually viable this text would be superfluous. It is present because God has promised to any who believe and are faithful, that He will not change His miind. That does not address the mind of man who can change it at his own will at any time for any reason. God does not force man to either believe or to change his belief. Therein lies the error of OSAS.

I understand your predicament here because you have literally rewritten the Bible throughout this entire thread. Every single objection that has been raised to OSAS has used scripture to refute your false teaching. It is why it is false because it has never been a teaching of scripture.

Absolutely correct. Paul is addressing believers. Beleivers are a subgroup of the whole of humanity. So if Christ saved mankind, then obviously He also saved those who would believe as well. As long as you don't accept the Incarnation and understand what Christ actually accomplished for the world and mankind, you will never understand salvation as scripture presents it.
You essentially have a philosophical concept of salvation and it revolves around predestination the foundation for OsAs. YOu have a God that is transcentdent, is not active in this world and acts only through preordained decrees. Obviously nothing of this is in scripture which is why you are floundering all over the place and really do not know how to address OSAS.

The US again is believers who Paul is addressing. But again, believers are a subgroup of all mankind that Christ saved from death and sin. By His Incarnation and resurrection He raised mankind to life. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22. Read with understanding and put away your false blinders for a change. You are denying one of the most basic Christian Doctrines, the Incarnation. You have no understanding of what Christ accomplished for us.
Also, I did not include vs 8 of Eph 2. The mankind part ends with vs 5. We have all ben saved by grace. Man has nothing to do with what Christ accomplished and cannot change it, nullify it, cannot effect it in any way.
It is what makes faith possible and man is able to believe and have eternal consequences which would mot be true if Christ did not save the world from Satan, death and sin.

All men and the world have been made righteous. Rom 6:18, Rom 3:23-25, II Cor 5:18-19. Christ reconciled the world to God. He made the world and mankind righteous, which means, to be put into a correct relationship. That right relationship was life. Christ gave man and the world life, defeated the curse of death we inherited through Adam.
It seems you really don't understand the fall either and why Christ was even necessary for man.

I know, that is what I pointed out to you as has every other opponent of OSAS. YOur view is that one is saved immediately finitely, and that justification means not guilty of sin, and thus saved forever and nothing can change that verdict. Maybe now you are beginning to see the error of your view.

Which you have not even begun to prove with any evidence from scripture. All you have done is shown how Calvin developed his false interpretation of scripture and his subsequent followers eventually formed the acronym OSAS. There are several variations, but any one of them is false. It presupposes a totally different kind of God than scripture describes and even a different Christ since the Reformed view does not accept the Incarnation either. They hold to limited atonement which is impossible for the Christ of scripture.

Which you have not refuted. Several of your citations all have conditions that must be met before one inherits that salvation. You have rewritten scripture so you don't recognize all those conditions. God does not grant pearls to swine. Believers who fall and never repent are swine and will NOT inherit the Kingdom and eternal life with Christ. Scripture is very clear and tells it very plainly, as long as one does not impose a false supposition upon it and then rationalize anything to the contrary away.

YOur personal interpretation of scripture, but no evidence that it has always been the meaning of scripture from the beginning. The Holy Spirit did not change how we are being saved than what He originally gave in the beginning.
You will forever remain confused. YOu cannot even phrase correctly what I have stated. YOu phrase it in light of your own interpretation. Any wonder you remain confused. It really is just another strawman.

Atwood · Aug 21, 2014

The Canards of Cassian

Unfortunately Cassian seems to think he can just pontificate, fill the screen with his own words without quoting the Bible & proving from it too much of the time. That sort of palabraria is not worth response.

But here is some of what he says & my responses to specifics:

Cassian said:

The topic of this thread is not OSAS, but OSS, Eternal Security, the POV that Once saved, one is Saved!

But the topic to which I was replying was your claim that Salvation was not now, but waited the future, as if one were not saved until the outcome of a future judgment. That is what I responded to, & I gave the proof that salvation was instant in this life, the Day of salvation. Then you changed subject & went on claiming how everyone was saved -- quite a reversal. So I addressed that false idea also.

No, all the verses I quoted to you give the primary promise (not premise) by the Lord: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." You make up straw men, Cassian. Face the truth, God's word an His promises.

You have to be blind to say that; I posted the proof. Now Cassian ran on, just saying His sola Cassian things, not quoting the Bible. So it goes nowhere, not worth reading.

Let anyone read those passages to see Cassian confuses the blessing of believers with mankind in general.

That is a libelous falsehood.

Utter nonsense. Romans 1-3 says that there is none righteous, no not one, and itemizes the depravity of man. Let anyone reading this check out Romans 1-3. Cassians verse citations do not support at all his fantasies.

Indeed Christ changed the world (katallasso), but the world is not saved because of it.

Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
[man is not saved!]
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved. No salvation without faith.

Again, Cassian goes on giving his sola Cassiana stuff -- no Bible proof, just Cassian's words.

And 1 John says, I ( a believer in the Lord Jesus) have an anointing and am not dependent on any ecclesiastical authorities. My quotations of the Bible with my interpretation is certainly better than Cassian's non-quotation & personal pontifications.

God's word is not of straw. Your pontifications are worse than straw, they are poisonous. Anathema!

If anyone is bothered by Cassian's pontifications, takes them seriously, & wants help, let me know.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Atwood · Aug 21, 2014

Salvation is Instant in this Life (Now) & ES Is True

The utter falsehoods have been repeated implying that Eternal Security has no scriptural support and that salvation waits for the end of life or end of some future judgments (while self-contradictory claiming that all men have been saved by Christ's incarnation and resurrection -- I don't recall if the heretic included Christ's death).

But instead of repeating the scripture again for ES & for Instant Salvation in this life, I refer anyone interested down the board to posts
# 3952 & 3953 for the proof

(which posts are not far off)

Kerry · Aug 21, 2014

Ignorance is not a virtue, but God looks after the ignorant.

Cassian · Aug 22, 2014

Re: The Canards of Cassian

Atwood said:

The only one that has pontifications is you. You are simply giving your personal opinion as to what scripture means. You and a lot of other men have done so over the last 500 years and they all come up with different interpretations. The issue here is your theory, which is not your personal one, but that of John Calvin, has been false already for 500 years.

None of your texts even discuss OSAS because it does not exist in scripture, ONLY in the theory of Calvinism.

You also make a lot of assertions but never can produce any evidence. You say that you seemingly understand the Incarnation but deny every single salvific event of the Incarnation. You may have an erroneous view of that as well since it obviously is not the historical or scriptural one. You still cannot paraphrase what I stated correctly, but interpret it within your false paradigm. Like I stated, you need the strawman so you can at least knock something down.

I believe what scripture has always meant. I believe that the Holy Spriit has preserved His Gospel unchanged by man for 2000 years. Unlike your personal opinion which is worthless. At least you admit that it is your authority and opinion rather than the Gospel as the Holy Spirit gave in the beginning and has preserved for all time, for all men.

Your personal interpretations are just as worthless as Joseph Smith's or Eddy's, or Campbell's, or any other individual who imposes their own interpretation upon the Bible.

OSAS or OSS,(which is your innovative idea) means all the very same thing. Neither is scriptural notwithstanding your interpretation or Calvin's.

You can continue to pontificate and pronounce to your hearts content, but your interpretation cannot change what scripture means. The Holy Spirit has preserved it unchanged in spite of man's foolish attempts to change it, none have ever succeeded.

Atwood · Aug 22, 2014

Distinguish God's Word from Personal Pontifications

Cassian said:

Let the observer look at this post by Cassian (sola cassiana) -- it is his words, not scripture. On the other hand, I quote God's word for proof. And I don't expect anyone to believe something just becs I say it.

This is God's Word, not mine:

ps 34

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and
I will never blot his name out of the book of life.
I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And
who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes
that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

h.

newbirth · Aug 22, 2014

Atwood owns this thread so Atwood posts the longest post and answers his own posts with even longer posts.....

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Kerry

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