It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[mailmandan]

How do you explain to one who is already saved. To obey Christ without works...But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
or Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; or
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. or Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Genuine faith is not without works/obedience (James 2:14-24). Without faith it's impossible to please God so any attempts at abstaining from fleshly lusts, being kind, humble, meek etc.. without faith is futile. So the word "obey" in Hebrews 5:9 leads you to believe that we are saved by obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ? So how can you say that you have truly "obeyed Him" (in that sense) unless you have done it completely, 100%? Are you sinless and perfect?

you think you have obeyed.....
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Have you obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel? (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Are you trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of your salvation? If not, what acts of obedience are you trusting in to save you?

You need to read Titus 1:16 in context - 10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain. 12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." 13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed. That is not descriptive of a genuine believer. Anyone can profess to know God but the proof is in their works.

 

[Cassian]

Re: INSTANT SALVATION; INSTANT ETERNAL SECURITY

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:


But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.


In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.


[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)


The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

I can agree with all you post here since neither the texts nor the statments you make support ES as you think. You have an incorrect definition for justification that is not found in scripture either. That is based on your faulty acceptance of Anselm's Satisfaction theory of Atonement.

All of your citations again have conditions included. The condition is that one believe, believes, is believing. You again post God's promises to man, but where are the promises that a beleiver makes that can be guaranteed?

Eternal life is attained and only by those believers who overcame, those who endured to the end, those that remain faithful. Because you cannot find any text that guarantees man's faith ES is untenable in scripture.

 

[nl]

In his time, a well-known Christian musician named Keith Green (1953-1982) taught and believed that a professed believer's salvation was not always fully secure. I had the privilege to see Keith Green perform his music more than once.

Song: I don't wanna fall away from you.

[video=youtube_share;uu6dR7cz1_o]http://youtu.be/uu6dR7cz1_o[/video]

Lyric exerpts:

After all
I've only grieved Your spirit
And then I don't know why You stay with me
But every time I fall Your love comes through
And I don't want to fall away from You
From You
...
No Lord
I don't wanna fall away from You
No Lord
I don't wanna fall away from You

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ah, the last resort, If you have no substance, nothing to refute the Truth, attack the messenger.
Such a confused theology you have that you cannot even understand the difference between salvation and the attaining of eternal life. You consistently hit that strawman of works salvation because you don't understand scripture and the whole plan of salvation. Even after so many have explained it you cannot grasp it. You cannot see outside of the box of the predestination theology that you espouse which just does not align with scripture.

No one is saying you need to believe it, but you and Atwood just don't comprehend the difference.

to answer your question, we cannot lose salvation, but one can lose eternal life. You have consistantly confused the two, thus cannot understand your opponents.

Eternal life is salvation.

If you have eternal life, you are saved

if you do not have eternal life, Your dead (not saved)

Stop listening to men, who have misled you. Your in serious danger of eternal damnation. because you place to much faith on yourself. and to be honest. No faith in God whatsoever

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In his time, a well-known Christian musician named Keith Green (1953-1982) taught and believed that a professed believer's salvation was not always fully secure. I had the privilege to see Keith Green perform his music more than once.

Song: I don't wanna fall away from you.

[video=youtube_share;uu6dR7cz1_o]http://youtu.be/uu6dR7cz1_o[/video]

Lyric exerpts:

After all
I've only grieved Your spirit
And then I don't know why You stay with me
But every time I fall Your love comes through
And I don't want to fall away from You
From You
...
No Lord
I don't wanna fall away from You
No Lord
I don't wanna fall away from You

Seems he understand eternal security well..

He does not want to fall (his weakness, and his powerlessness)

But every time I fall, YOUR LOVE COMES THROUGH (Gods power. and gods unfailing, unconditional love)

 

[Atwood]

Does a Belief in ES Depend on a Belief in Predestination?

Someone derided Eternal Security as if it were sealed in a theological box of Predestinationism. Of course, that person's trademark here is posting dogmatically without proving from scripture his claims. It appears he has this idea that everyone should bow down to his rhetoric (no need to prove from the Bible "It is written" as the Lord Jesus did).

Predestination/election/foreordination are subjects endorsed in the Bible. There is no escaping those truths.

Rom 8:
foreknew > foreordained > called > justified > glorified.

On the other hand, believers have scratched their heads over these topics, and they disagree with each other on the interpretation of predestination. Eternal Security is endorsed by men with quite different explanations of predestination.

Calvinism has been defined by TULIP: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Elect or of Believers. As a matter of fact, famous apologist Norman Geisler denies all of this but perseverance. J. Vernon McGee was a great & famous preacher whose messages are on YouTube. You find his messages with titles 1) against Calvinism and 2) for Eternal Security.

I do not endorse either Geisler or McGee on the TULIP. The issue of predestination does not have to be settled to endorse Eternal Security. But one does have to believe the promises of God. He has promised us that whosoever believes has everlasting life. Such a one will never perish.

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

The Lord Jesus is the Savior; He is not a mere chance-giver. Let us trust Him. He paid for our sins on the cross. He offers new life and an eternity of bliss in fellowship with Him, just for trusting Him as Savior.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[Atwood]

Outrageous to Deny ES for Having a Condition to Get It

If the Lord makes a promise to you, but gives you a condition to obtain it, it is outrageous to deny the security of the promise based on it having a condition.

The Lord says to us, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

It is truly absurd to turn around and claim that "you shall be saved" is false because "you shall be saved" has a condition of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Concentrate on the promises of God.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

To anyone who has dismissed the Savior as a mere chance-giver,
be sure to actually trust Him as Savior.
Now is the day of salvation,
now is the accepted time.

Beware lest there be in anyone an evil heart of unbelief in turning away from the Living God.

 

[Cassian]

Eternal life is salvation.

which only a dead believer has inherited because he was faithful.

If you have eternal life, you are saved

Yes, same as above.

if you do not have eternal life, Your dead (not saved)

yes, absolutely.

Stop listening to men, who have misled you. Your in serious danger of eternal damnation. because you place to much faith on yourself. and to be honest. No faith in God whatsoever

Since you cannot show any men that have misled me, your assertion is quite meaningless. Especially since what I believe has always existed in the Body of Christ as the Gospel once given.

You and a few others are the only ones that are listening to men, including youselves. You cannot get out of man's opinion, either some other guys opinion or your own. Hardly the Gospel from the beginning as Christ gave it.
It has been quite some time now that I left that melieu of chaos, confusion, and division based on man's opinion.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Does a Belief in ES Depend on a Belief in Predestination?

Someone derided Eternal Security as if it were sealed in a theological box of Predestinationism. Of course, that person's trademark here is posting dogmatically without proving from scripture his claims. It appears he has this idea that everyone should bow down to his rhetoric (no need to prove from the Bible "It is written" as the Lord Jesus did).

Predestination/election/foreordination are subjects endorsed in the Bible. There is no escaping those truths.

Rom 8:
foreknew > foreordained > called > justified > glorified.

On the other hand, believers have scratched their heads over these topics, and they disagree with each other on the interpretation of predestination. Eternal Security is endorsed by men with quite different explanations of predestination.

Calvinism has been defined by TULIP: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Elect or of Believers. As a matter of fact, famous apologist Norman Geisler denies all of this but perseverance. J. Vernon McGee was a great & famous preacher whose messages are on YouTube. You find his messages with titles 1) against Calvinism and 2) for Eternal Security.

I do not endorse either Geisler or McGee on the TULIP. The issue of predestination does not have to be settled to endorse Eternal Security. But one does have to believe the promises of God. He has promised us that whosoever believes has everlasting life. Such a one will never perish.

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

The Lord Jesus is the Savior; He is not a mere chance-giver. Let us trust Him. He paid for our sins on the cross. He offers new life and an eternity of bliss in fellowship with Him, just for trusting Him as Savior.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

If one needs and wants to hold to the theories of man as to what scripture means, then by all means follow these men. All of these men lived since the Reformation and their theories have all been developed since the reformation as well, under the agis of sola scriptura. Not a single idea can be found in Christianity prior to the Reformation. It is man's intellectual best guess as to what a text might mean which is why every one of them can come up with a different interpretation.

Yet the Scriptures have only ever had one meaning, the same meaning from the beginning. A meaning that has not changed from the beginning since the Gospel was given.

As all of these men believe is that what they develop is truely scriptural, one cannot refute them since it is opinion. Which is why all of their views are all of equal value and meaning, from Luther, Calvin, Knox, Wesley, to Eddy, Thomas, White, Rush, Parham, Campbell, and a host of others.
If you can prove Calvinism, predestination from scripture, then their interpretations are just as valid because they derived them all from scripture.

So, good luck.

 

[newbirth]

Genuine faith is not without works/obedience (James 2:14-24). Without faith it's impossible to please God so any attempts at abstaining from fleshly lusts, being kind, humble, meek etc.. without faith is futile. So the word "obey" in Hebrews 5:9 leads you to believe that we are saved by obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ? So how can you say that you have truly "obeyed Him" (in that sense) unless you have done it completely, 100%? Are you sinless and perfect?

I would assume we are born again living by faith having the remission of sins Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
...why else would one want to obey Christ. To suggest one is trying to obey without faith is judgemental if anything.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Have you obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel? (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Are you trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of your salvation? If not, what acts of obedience are you trusting in to save you?

God cleaned us up now he is showing us how to stay clean...I don't know how you guys can't see that.[SUP]
17 [/SUP]And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[SUP]20[/SUP]By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And having an high priest over the house of God;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised


[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

You need to read Titus 1:16 in context - 10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain. 12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." 13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed. That is not descriptive of a genuine believer. Anyone can profess to know God but the proof is in their works.

Yet you object everytime someone mention works....you judge for yourself brother
1 John 2:29

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Outrageous to Deny ES for Having a Condition to Get It

If the Lord makes a promise to you, but gives you a condition to obtain it, it is outrageous to deny the security of the promise based on it having a condition.

The Lord says to us, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

It is truly absurd to turn around and claim that "you shall be saved" is false because "you shall be saved" has a condition of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Concentrate on the promises of God.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

To anyone who has dismissed the Savior as a mere chance-giver,
be sure to actually trust Him as Savior.
Now is the day of salvation,
now is the accepted time.

Beware lest there be in anyone an evil heart of unbelief in turning away from the Living God.

Your arguemnts are getting more absurd as you attempt unsuccessfully to proving ES. It has conditions whether you think it does or not.
Then what is even more bizarre is the last text you quote is diametrically opposed to ES. Amazing.

 

[Atwood]

Who Would Prefer the "I-said-it"s of a heretic to God's Word?

Someone keeps droning on with his non-Bible statements.

I believe God's word, not human pontifications.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I shall dwell in the House of the LORD forever!

 

[nl]

You can pick and choose the Scriptures that you like and ignore the rest. Or, you can ignore none and consider all that you can.

Jesus taught the parable of the Sower. The seed was the Word of God. Some seed fell on the rock. The seed grew but only for a limited time.

Jesus explained that the seed on the rock represented those who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Theology and doctrine have their important place. You can argue for and against various doctrines. What I don't want to do is argue against Jesus (or ignore Him). We never outgrow the need to maintain a fear of God.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." - Luke 8:13

 

[Cassian]

Re: Who Would Prefer the "I-said-it"s of a heretic to God's Word?

Someone keeps droning on with his non-Bible statements.

I believe God's word, not human pontifications.

Yet you cannot prove that ES is actually God's word. All you have produced is your personal pontifications of an already established false teaching of scripture. Where are your bible statement supporting ES, 3132 post and none have yet been presented. How come if it exists in scripture?
YOu don't seem to be able to get beyond your personal opinion which is worthless if you cannot support it with scripture, as it has always meant, not a man's interpretation and surely not your personal interpretation.

 

[Atwood]

You can pick and choose the Scriptures that you like and ignore the rest. Or, you can ignore none and consider all that you can.

Jesus taught the parable of the Sower. The seed was the Word of God. Some seed fell on the rock. The seed grew but only for a limited time.

Jesus explained that the seed on the rock represented those who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Theology and doctrine have their important place. You can argue for and against various doctrines. What I don't want to do is argue against Jesus (or ignore Him). We never outgrow the need to maintain a fear of God.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe [the word] for a while and in time of temptation fall away." - Luke 8:13

"The seed is the word of God. And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved. And those on the rock are they who, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

They had no root, which indicates they were not saved. The text does not say that they believed in the Lord Jesus as Savior. They believed the word, the message; they were convinced that it was true. The text does say they believed in the Lord Jesus, but that they received the word.

Do not pick & choose. Consider the whole counsel of God.

It is too much to post in one post:

Faith Belief in the Lord Jesus, is the one & only & the sufficient thing a man must do to be saved.

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall saved.

"
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

 

[Atwood]

Distinguish Human Dogmatic Statements from God's Word

Someone continues just to say things & so dogmatically. He fails to realize apparently that him saying something proves nothing. Give me God's Word -- you an have the human tradition if you want the path to destruction.

I do not believe the human pontifications;
I believe God's Word:

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you shall also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

If you have relegated the Savior to a mere chance-giver,
let this be the day when you actually trust him as Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Reciting Names from Luther to Campbell Puts you in the soup

Scoffing at names from Luther to Campbell just puts you in the soup, if you think that proves some doctrine to be true of false. None of those boys were alive, and no human pontifications about them or anything else has an ounce of proof.

Now God's Word Brings Light. It is written, as the Lord Jesus spoke when proving.

I reject & do not endorse such pontifications.
I accept & believe God's Word:

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.


John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Billyd]

Atwood, it seems to me that the difference that is being argued is the relationship between Salvation and Eternal-Security. Some want to demonstrate that they are the same (I like your term Chance-Salvation), and that Salvation leads to Eternal- Security. John included the third chapter of the Book of John to provide a clear and incontestable answer to this. It is impossible to read the chapter and not find that the only path to Salvation is belief on him, and he promises that if you believe, he will give you eternal life (my definition of eternal security). There is no other way to read (Greek or English) this chapter. Remember, Belief is not saying that we believe, wanting to believe, or telling everyone that we believe.

The remaining scriptures being presented do not dispute the above fact. If they are being read to do so, I ask that those presenting them look at why they are being presented in the place that they are presented, and how they relate to Salvation.

 

[newbirth]

"The seed is the word of God. And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved. And those on the rock are they who, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

They had no root, which indicates they were not saved. The text does not say that they believed in the Lord Jesus as Savior. They believed the word, the message; they were convinced that it was true. The text does say they believed in the Lord Jesus, but that they received the word.

Matthew 13


[SUP]20 [/SUP]But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Originally Posted by nl

You can pick and choose the Scriptures that you like and ignore the rest. Or, you can ignore none and consider all that you can.

Jesus taught the parable of the Sower. The seed was the Word of God. Some seed fell on the rock. The seed grew but only for a limited time.

Jesus explained that the seed on the rock represented those who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Theology and doctrine have their important place. You can argue for and against various doctrines. What I don't want to do is argue against Jesus (or ignore Him). We never outgrow the need to maintain a fear of God.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe [the word] for a while and in time of temptation fall away." - Luke 8:13

The bible does say as many as received him to them gave he power to become sons of God....so they all had the same power

 

[Atwood]

The bible does say as many as received him to them gave he power to become sons of God....so they all had the same power

Receiving the word and believing it, is not the same thing as receiving the Lord Jesus and believing in Him as Savior. You can believe things that the Bible says without trusting Christ as Savior. Indeed, that truth must be well illustrated right here, as so many claim to receive God's Word, the scripture, yet they regard Christ as only a chance-giver, instead of their Savior; the word has been received by some who ever let it take root.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.