Yes its satanic heresy to deny eternal security, its an attack on God. In fact those Christ died for were Eternally Secure while they were unbelievers and hating God !
It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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Mine was provoked, and I was just stating an observation. Something I would hope you would listen to but know you won't. Yes I have read scripture, for 53 years, and I have my beliefs. They aren't the same as yours, but I don't make assumptions based on that about your salvation. I believe some day we'll meet before the throne and have a good laugh about all of this. But for now, I think we've run our course and I'll leave you with this...
The God I know doesn't take - or keep - prisoners.
Bless you my friend.
2
2Thewaters
Guest
I dont know what you mean by eternal security.
The satanic heresy is saying the eternally lazy and disobedient and uncaring selfish people think they are going to heaven when they are not.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that licve selfishly and refuse to keep the commandments.
The satanic heresy is saying the eternally lazy and disobedient and uncaring selfish people think they are going to heaven when they are not.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that licve selfishly and refuse to keep the commandments.
Prove:
I was surprised by this, since I don't read the KJV much, and didn't realize that the KJV had a corrupt text there. It should read
Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
Comfort and Metzger's commentaries on the text agree. 046 a late 10th century manuscript supports your reading, but much older manuscripts support the reading I gave. And keeping commandments confers no such right in scripture.
If one is hoping for rights in exchange for keeping commandments, he doesn't realize the depth of his depravity or the extent of his failure to obey commandments.
Your text says nothing on the subject. Sin condemns us all to the Lake of Fire, you and myself included, except for God's grace and the reckoning of Christ's righteousness to the Believer.
Do you realize the depth of your depravity, that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags?
Rom 4:16
For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Salvation has nothing to do with saying "Lord, Lord" at judgment.
2
2Thewaters
Guest
I dont know what you mean by eternal security.
The satanic heresy is saying the eternally lazy and disobedient and uncaring selfish people think they are going to heaven when they are not.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that licve selfishly and refuse to keep the commandments.
The problem with once saved always saved is it makes people relax and not strive (20 times in bible), fight the fight of faith,
1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1 Tim 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
and they are disobedient and not keep the commandments Whic Are Gods conditions of salvation.
the disobedient will never enter heaven no matter what they profess.
"But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people." -Romans 10:21.
"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," -1 Timothy 1:9.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy," -2 Timothy 3:2.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." -Titus 1:16.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." -Titus 3:3.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the cor:7.ner," -1 Peter 2
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." -1 Peter 3:20.
What happened to the disobedient in Noahs day.
Once saved always saved, right?
What happened to adam and EVE in the garden SAVED, in full GRACE living PERFECTLY ]once saved always saved?
Where is adam and eve now?
Once saved always saved?
No. I the grave.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
The satanic heresy is saying the eternally lazy and disobedient and uncaring selfish people think they are going to heaven when they are not.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that licve selfishly and refuse to keep the commandments.
The problem with once saved always saved is it makes people relax and not strive (20 times in bible), fight the fight of faith,
1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1 Tim 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
and they are disobedient and not keep the commandments Whic Are Gods conditions of salvation.
the disobedient will never enter heaven no matter what they profess.
"But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people." -Romans 10:21.
"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," -1 Timothy 1:9.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy," -2 Timothy 3:2.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." -Titus 1:16.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." -Titus 3:3.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the cor:7.ner," -1 Peter 2
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." -1 Peter 3:20.
What happened to the disobedient in Noahs day.
Once saved always saved, right?
What happened to adam and EVE in the garden SAVED, in full GRACE living PERFECTLY ]once saved always saved?
Where is adam and eve now?
Once saved always saved?
No. I the grave.
Written LONG AFTER JESUS WENT TO HEAVEN AND WRITTEN WHILE THE NEW COVENANT WAS IN EFFECT
2
2Thewaters
Guest
2
2Thewaters
Guest
2 Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2 Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Tim 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Tim 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2 Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2 Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Tim 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Tim 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2
2Thewaters
Guest
The thief on the cross was converted.
He had a change of heart and if let off the cross would never steal aggain
his partner was not converted and he would steal again
it matters a whole lot what you do
for it shows the true heart.
We love you lots dad!
and Well do whatever you say...
and we know we have an inheritance with you!
buy, were going to go play with sammy
have fun mowing the lawn
some kids just dont get it
nor do they get an inheritance
its all what you do
what you do
shows true love
He had a change of heart and if let off the cross would never steal aggain
his partner was not converted and he would steal again
it matters a whole lot what you do
for it shows the true heart.
We love you lots dad!
and Well do whatever you say...
and we know we have an inheritance with you!
buy, were going to go play with sammy
have fun mowing the lawn
some kids just dont get it
nor do they get an inheritance
its all what you do
what you do
shows true love
2
2Thewaters
Guest
Johnny- The boy who OBEYS every word father says with love.
Cain - The boy who always had an excuse why that rule never applies to him.
Were both present at the estate reading of their fathers will...
at the end of the meeting one boy recieved the inheritance
and the other boy recieved one dollar
Question: Who recieved the inheritance, Johnny or Cain?
Obvious questions for one hundred, please.
Likewise, there aare boys, even today, who always have some sort of reason why they dont have to keep the fathers commandments...
Cain - The boy who always had an excuse why that rule never applies to him.
Were both present at the estate reading of their fathers will...
at the end of the meeting one boy recieved the inheritance
and the other boy recieved one dollar
Question: Who recieved the inheritance, Johnny or Cain?
Obvious questions for one hundred, please.
Likewise, there aare boys, even today, who always have some sort of reason why they dont have to keep the fathers commandments...
T
TaylorTG
Guest
No, it is not Satanic Heresy to deny eternal security.
It is Satanic Heresy to create a thread which is guaranteed to generate heated debate and confusion.
It is Satanic Heresy to create a thread which is guaranteed to generate heated debate and confusion.
R
rainin
Guest
It is not the thread that is created that brings the problem but the participants in the debate. There is indeed much confusion in such things.
Where in the word, after the death of Christ does it say to ask for ongoing forgiveness between God and you, me or anyone else? Where after the death not before?
And John 1:9 is not it. there is nowhere it states to ask for it over again after asking for it once and believing we have the sin nature we were first born with and that Christ did come in the flesh to redeem us and did do thi8ds once for all
And chapter 2 of 1 John reveals this truth I just stated.
Anyway please show anywhere we are to continue to ask for more forgiveness after the death of Christ, After the recpetion of the forgiveness provided at the cross?
When a Christian stops asking for more, that is when they have received "it is finished"
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, Itisfinished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
And they begin the new life in Spirit and truth with Father, thanks to Son. If one is not past beinjg forgiven by God through Son as it is done, and does not finalize this, that one is still swimming in the cess pool of life here on earth, trying to attain perfection that no person other than Christ can or did
Sorry you do not see this freedom out of stress as of yet, maybe you will, only god knows and I pray so, God shows you
Originally Posted by Alligator
all I ever hear from you people is trust in God, trust in God, trust in God, AS IF I DON'T? That's not even the issue. I do for my salvation whatever God asks me to do. You can call it what you want. I know you are familiar with the parable of the talents. This parable shows the danger of doing nothing.
My post was from the post above in red
Originally Posted by homwardbound
Yes and never said you do not believe and am not fighting you, just sharing with you the difference in stress and rest
Are you familiar with before the cross and after the cross. What is the transition in this before and after
Is before under Law and Christ fulfilling it why?
And in before under Law are we condemned to death, not being able to be perfect to go to heaven?
Read why the disciples asked Christ after they watched that rich man walk away sad who obeyed the law from birth on, who could not give up his worldly possession to be perfect and go there?
The Disciples finally got and were annihilated and ask How then can anyone go to Heaven then read it in Matt 19
Also remember this they had also heard if your hand sins, cut it off, better for part of you to go to heaven than all of you go to hell. This was said about Adultery, just look at another and thus think it, you have sinned, gouge out that eye(s), oh and while you are at it if under the Law cut out thy tongues as well
So now maybe you might see what Christ came to do, fulfill all the Law and Prophets concerning him, to die for you and thus give you new life when you finally move past the death, and agree with and in thankfulness thank God and ask for the new life in Spirit and truth, given at the resurrected Christ
I think by what you just stated here you have and got it just not yet seeing fully
Philippians 3:10-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Not trying to, nor am I judging you, why are ytou taking it as if I am, cause I am not
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
I simply trust God to teach me, my post is from experience in trying to be perfect and work hard in stress with no rest
Originally Posted by homwardbound
Man will do just about anything to not die and yet die in his sins that he does not believe Christ to have taken away, so he can move on into the new life in Chirst in Spirit and truth. At the resurrected Christ, is what you and others might be missing not seeing the whole cross, only seeing the death, a half sham Gospel, where there is no life only death. And one goes out to be all they can be, hoping for Mercy and never receiving it. Being caught up in trying to be perfect in their own flesh, when no flesh willo please God but Christ's and that is done over and out. Then came the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth to give us that new life in Spirit and truth by his resurrection, for our new life more abundantly as he said he came to do in John 10:10
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Direct to God, I pray first to know God personally, not to argue or demand me right to be above anyone else or just to get along with anyone.
Rather just to be comforted in God, and for all others to be the same and know this, God just loves them. That is what I care to know is God the creator of all, and for me found God by Son, and am thankful at rest in God, who does just love us all. that is what Paul prayed and prays about in Spirit and truth, being alive forever with God
You think his being crucified to self is fruitless, I know today it is not, Phil 3:10-11, shows this and 1 Corinthians 15. We are saved by the resurrected life of Christ not the death. To worship in Spirit and truth, not in flesh, look at me scenarios, I go to Church, I,I,I,I,I. Think "I" might be in the way of God doing what God wants through me, it is revealed in Romans 7, every time "I" want to do good "I" do evil, who is the only one that can save me from this body of sin and death?:
And a bid Thank you, as prayers are for you and all as well for als well being from God the Father of Christ who made the way to Father for us through him at the cross
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
There is a problem with your example.
You have Johnny, the boy who ALWAYS follows his Father's commands with love. Has he really? Has he never disobeyed even once?
the father gave a law. He said do EVERYTHING written in this law. or you will be cursed.
So according to this law, Niether of the two children recieved the inheritance.
1 Johnny thought he would, because he obeyed his fathers commands with love. His error was thinking this was enough. His father said perfect obedience only
2. Cain, the boy did not want to follow his fathers command. so he did not..
You should add a third.
3. Paul. Understood he was not worthy to be his fathers son. because he did not do what his father commanded (perfect obedience to his law) Recieved the gift of Love his father offered. based on his fathers perfect son taking the curse of not following ALL his father commanded brought on. Now obeys his father in love. gratitude, faith and hope.