It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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Will these arguments ever end?
Even if one side wins, it doesn't even make them correct. It just means they won the debate.
The Bible says not to argue for a reason. In my honest opinion, it is useless.
So please, enough. Just agree to disagree.
Even if one side wins, it doesn't even make them correct. It just means they won the debate.
The Bible says not to argue for a reason. In my honest opinion, it is useless.
So please, enough. Just agree to disagree.
Feedm:
Thanks for posting some really good verses.
The verse doesn't say that. John 3:36 contrasts
1) believing and thus having eternal life (not just a shot at it)
vs.
2) not obeying the Son; thus to the Lake of Fire.
Sin leads to the Lake of Fire.
But belief in the Lord Jesus is the escape.
The only obedience which saves is believing, for it is an imperative to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. Obedience to commandments in general is no way to salvation. When the commandment comes, sin revives even in the life of a Christian (Rom 7).
What is amazing is that anyone thinks he can be saved by obeying God's rules, since the Word says, "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." Thus it would appear that this obedience/works POV is based on the pride of thinking you can do this.
Faith is the only route to pleasing the Lord even in the Christian life after you are saved.
Gal 2:
For I through the law died unto the law, that I might live unto God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought."
But good works are the proof of faith and must follow geniune faith in the Lord Jesus, though in many ways we all stumble, and we shall find ourselves confessing our sins frequently, unless we are self-righteous fools.
Heb 5:9 and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey = him the author of eternal salvation;
There is a hypothetical, but only a hypothetical justification by works -- if you can be perfect you will get eternal life. But no one can fulfill the perfection standard nor even get close. For "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." You have to go on and quote the context wherein prophet Paul is bring all under condemnation.
CONTEXT
Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. … Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, [e.g, those who deny eternal security] not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his works: to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life [it never happens before one trusts Christ as Savior, and even the saved sin plenty]: but to them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; [that's all of us] but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek : for there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: …
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
[so what good does 2:7-9 do you?]
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
1They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one: . . .
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
There is no summation of Faith & obedience in these verses. They are not connected here. Being a believer in God is essential to salvation. He who comes to God must believe that He is. But 1:22 does not speak of salvation.
Salvation is what the disobedient need. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to a change of mind.
Heb 10:38-39:
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Those who draw back are mere professors, like those who deny salvation and pretend to be Christians. Them who believe to the saving of the soul are a different group from those who draw back.
2Pe 2:20 also speaks of the possibility learning about Jesus escaping pollutions as by following Christian morality, but it does not describe such as saved -- the words saved or eternal life are not in your quote.
And what will you do about yourself when you realize that you have had knowledge of the Lord Jesus and known the way of righteousness, but turned away from it? The way of righteousness is trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. But if you despise this and seek to establish your own righteousness, you turn back to your filthy rags of pretended self-righteousness.
This is addressed to an entire City Church of Ephesus, and has nothing to do with how you should be saved. Indeed, the City Church of Ephesus is gone now (I believe).
This is a blanket statement about all men, whether Jews of Gentiles. If you ever are righteous, according to Rom 5 you are made righteous by a free gift when you trust Christ as Savior. Your righteousness indeed comes by OBEDIENCE. But not YOUR obedience; it is Christ's obedience which as a free gift (of grace) confers righteousness on the believer in Him.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. ; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) …
by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men to justification of life. … by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. … even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Yet, through Jesus Christ we can be righteous, as the Bible tells it is the Righteous that will be saved. We should not go around calling ourselves the righteousness in some prideful sense, but this is what scripture teaches.
The righteousness obtained is through Christ's obedience. If you get it, you get it as a gift of grace.
You confuse the doctrine of salvation unto a status of righteous with God and eternal life with the doctrine of how a saved person (whose Old Man was co-crucified with Christ) is to live after He is saved, how practical righteousness is achieved in the Christian life. Rom 6:16 never says "eternal life." The passage goes on to say:
" Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."
You are making things up. Your equation is bogus. "unto eternal life" is your addition.
[/quote]So again "by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. " The only way to become righteous through Christ is by obedience.
By the obedience of one - please do not think YOUR LORD had to obey to make you righteous and you do not! Is the servant above his master?[/quote]
The text says what it says. It is Christ's obedience which makes a man righteous, just as Adam's sin makes a man a sinner. Christ's obedience is just as successful in making men righteous as Adams' disobedience was in making men sinners -- or one may say Christ's obedience is ever more successful, as Grace is the more power King.
Then you are condemned for failure to follow Him. And your unbelieving self has no ability to please the Lord. "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Pride in thinking you can please the Lord by works, prevents a man from throwing Himself on the grace of God and trusting Christ as Savior.
That is what you say. But it is not merely what you believe, but in whom you trust: your own miserable works or Christ's ability to save. To Him who works not, but believes, His faith is reckoned for righteousness. Cannot have eternal life? Then you make the Lord a liar, since He repeats over and over in various expressions:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
"whoever comes to me I will never cast out. "
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast
Thanks for posting some really good verses.
The verse doesn't say that. John 3:36 contrasts
1) believing and thus having eternal life (not just a shot at it)
vs.
2) not obeying the Son; thus to the Lake of Fire.
Sin leads to the Lake of Fire.
But belief in the Lord Jesus is the escape.
The only obedience which saves is believing, for it is an imperative to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. Obedience to commandments in general is no way to salvation. When the commandment comes, sin revives even in the life of a Christian (Rom 7).
What is amazing is that anyone thinks he can be saved by obeying God's rules, since the Word says, "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." Thus it would appear that this obedience/works POV is based on the pride of thinking you can do this.
Faith is the only route to pleasing the Lord even in the Christian life after you are saved.
Gal 2:
For I through the law died unto the law, that I might live unto God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought."
But good works are the proof of faith and must follow geniune faith in the Lord Jesus, though in many ways we all stumble, and we shall find ourselves confessing our sins frequently, unless we are self-righteous fools.
Heb 5:9 and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey = him the author of eternal salvation;
There is a hypothetical, but only a hypothetical justification by works -- if you can be perfect you will get eternal life. But no one can fulfill the perfection standard nor even get close. For "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." You have to go on and quote the context wherein prophet Paul is bring all under condemnation.
CONTEXT
Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. … Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, [e.g, those who deny eternal security] not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his works: to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life [it never happens before one trusts Christ as Savior, and even the saved sin plenty]: but to them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; [that's all of us] but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek : for there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: …
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
[so what good does 2:7-9 do you?]
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
1They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one: . . .
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
There is no summation of Faith & obedience in these verses. They are not connected here. Being a believer in God is essential to salvation. He who comes to God must believe that He is. But 1:22 does not speak of salvation.
Salvation is what the disobedient need. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to a change of mind.
Are you not repeating the same incomplete quote which I finished for you above? Are you ignoring the end of the passage, or do I confuse you with someone else? The text goes on to say,
Heb 10:38-39:
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Those who draw back are mere professors, like those who deny salvation and pretend to be Christians. Them who believe to the saving of the soul are a different group from those who draw back.
2Pe 2:20 also speaks of the possibility learning about Jesus escaping pollutions as by following Christian morality, but it does not describe such as saved -- the words saved or eternal life are not in your quote.
And what will you do about yourself when you realize that you have had knowledge of the Lord Jesus and known the way of righteousness, but turned away from it? The way of righteousness is trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. But if you despise this and seek to establish your own righteousness, you turn back to your filthy rags of pretended self-righteousness.
This is addressed to an entire City Church of Ephesus, and has nothing to do with how you should be saved. Indeed, the City Church of Ephesus is gone now (I believe).
This is a blanket statement about all men, whether Jews of Gentiles. If you ever are righteous, according to Rom 5 you are made righteous by a free gift when you trust Christ as Savior. Your righteousness indeed comes by OBEDIENCE. But not YOUR obedience; it is Christ's obedience which as a free gift (of grace) confers righteousness on the believer in Him.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. ; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) …
by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men to justification of life. … by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. … even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Yet, through Jesus Christ we can be righteous, as the Bible tells it is the Righteous that will be saved. We should not go around calling ourselves the righteousness in some prideful sense, but this is what scripture teaches.
The righteousness obtained is through Christ's obedience. If you get it, you get it as a gift of grace.
You confuse the doctrine of salvation unto a status of righteous with God and eternal life with the doctrine of how a saved person (whose Old Man was co-crucified with Christ) is to live after He is saved, how practical righteousness is achieved in the Christian life. Rom 6:16 never says "eternal life." The passage goes on to say:
" Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."
You are making things up. Your equation is bogus. "unto eternal life" is your addition.
[/quote]So again "by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. " The only way to become righteous through Christ is by obedience.
By the obedience of one - please do not think YOUR LORD had to obey to make you righteous and you do not! Is the servant above his master?[/quote]
The text says what it says. It is Christ's obedience which makes a man righteous, just as Adam's sin makes a man a sinner. Christ's obedience is just as successful in making men righteous as Adams' disobedience was in making men sinners -- or one may say Christ's obedience is ever more successful, as Grace is the more power King.
Then you are condemned for failure to follow Him. And your unbelieving self has no ability to please the Lord. "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Pride in thinking you can please the Lord by works, prevents a man from throwing Himself on the grace of God and trusting Christ as Savior.
That is what you say. But it is not merely what you believe, but in whom you trust: your own miserable works or Christ's ability to save. To Him who works not, but believes, His faith is reckoned for righteousness. Cannot have eternal life? Then you make the Lord a liar, since He repeats over and over in various expressions:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
"whoever comes to me I will never cast out. "
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast
Last edited:
K
Kerry
Guest
Yes it is a free gift. Paul often say's that those who endure to the end. Reckon why he would make such a statement? There were some that worked with Paul and he said I gave them over to Satan as they were caught up in the cares of this world. Paul even mentions backsliders whoa wait a minute, what is a backslider?
Enduring to the end is not about what you face but how you face it. We must keep our faith exclusively in the work of the cross. They overcame by the word of their testimony and by the blood of the Lamb. My testimony is that Christ and Him crucified saved me and changed me. Then I began to produce fruit or works as the Holy Spirit works in me and through me. Nothing can I claim of my own. Paul the Apostle said if I boast in anything I boast in the cross.
The cross is my and your righteousness, it is a free gift purchased by His blood. Nothing you do can atone, in fact if you do a good work it is a result or fruit of your faith in Christ and Him Crucified and nothing else.
Enduring to the end is not about what you face but how you face it. We must keep our faith exclusively in the work of the cross. They overcame by the word of their testimony and by the blood of the Lamb. My testimony is that Christ and Him crucified saved me and changed me. Then I began to produce fruit or works as the Holy Spirit works in me and through me. Nothing can I claim of my own. Paul the Apostle said if I boast in anything I boast in the cross.
The cross is my and your righteousness, it is a free gift purchased by His blood. Nothing you do can atone, in fact if you do a good work it is a result or fruit of your faith in Christ and Him Crucified and nothing else.
F
feedm3
Guest
So again "by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. " The only way to become righteous through Christ is by obedience.
By the obedience of one - please do not think YOUR LORD had to obey to make you righteous and you do not! Is the servant above his master?[/quote]
The text says what it says. It is Christ's obedience which makes a man righteous, just as Adam's sin makes a man a sinner. Christ's obedience is just as successful in making men righteous as Adams' disobedience was in making men sinners -- or one may say Christ's obedience is ever more successful, as Grace is the more power King.
Then you are condemned for failure to follow Him. And your unbelieving self has no ability to please the Lord. "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Pride in thinking you can please the Lord by works, prevents a man from throwing Himself on the grace of God and trusting Christ as Savior.
That is what you say. But it is not merely what you believe, but in whom you trust: your own miserable works or Christ's ability to save. To Him who works not, but believes, His faith is reckoned for righteousness. Cannot have eternal life? Then you make the Lord a liar, since He repeats over and over in various expressions:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
"whoever comes to me I will never cast out. "
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast[/QUOTE]
F
feedm3
Guest
We may agree to disagree on minor issues,
but there are major issues for which the Christian is called to earnestly contend for the faith.
John 6 says nothing about DNA at all. The Lord Jesus said that what He had spoken to them was "spirit." It is a figure of speech, like "I am the door." He has no hinges.
The value of Christ's blood and flesh sacrificed on the cross has to be received; but this eating is figurative -- no cannibalism. You receive Christ by faith, by trusting Him as Savior. Imagining that you are turning a piece of bread into Christ's body and then worshipping it, is idolatry.
As the Bible reiterates over and over that eternal life, salvation, comes for only believing, nothing besides believing or trusting Christ can be considered necessary for salvation.
Take God at His word, Hobo.
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
The only way to receive Christ is by believing.
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
James 1
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
The jailer was commanded to "believe" not commanded to "believe only". Night and day difference.
Why in the world would a Christian "stops asking for more forgiveness when they sin" unless that Christian is desiring to be unforgiven and therefore lost?
Heb 6:4,5 proves the Hebrew writer is talking about Christians who can fall away. Heb 6:9 the Hebrew writer was expressing his confidence that those Hebrews would not fall away but remain stedfast and faithful.
Before the world began, God predetermined the group Christian was be saved. God never unconditionally predetermined any individual outside of this group to be saved. So anyone in this group and who conditionally REMAINS in this group faithfully till death will be saved, Rev 2:10. Yet I can fall away from this group and become lost. The group remains saved, I am just no longer part of it.
So only those in this group have the promise of salvation, then after they die they will actually receive the fulfillment of this promise. Salvation is a promise, 1 Jn 2:25 and promises are not something yet realized for if it is realized it is no longer a promise. Salvation, life everlasting is in the world to come, Lk 18:30 and not in this life. Finite, corruptible mortals cannot in this life and this world actually possess life eternal, they must change and put on immortality and incorruption first, 1 Cor 15:52ff. Since God's promises are so certain, God sometimes "calleth those things which be not as though they were" (Rom 4:17) therefore Christians are sometimes said to already possess eternal life (past tense) even though eternal life is still a promise to be actually realized in the world to come.
The bible does not contradict itself by teaching one condition (belief only) saves and many conditions (belief, repentance, confession, baptism) save at the same time...that's impossible. So a biblical, saving belief includes repentance, confession and baptism. I agree that water baptism is something one obediently submits himself to.
Paul is talking about works of merit in Rom 4:4 so those that do not do works of merit but does the work of believing (Jn 6:27-29) will be saved.
Heb 6:4,5 is clearly talking bout Christians that can fall away.
John does not say they were never of us, but they were not of us at the time they went out.
Coffman Commentary: Such a verse as this, of course, is made use of as a crutch for the proposition that a person "once saved is always saved"; however, it should be carefully noted that John did not here write of the false teachers that "they never had been of us," but that at an unspecified previous time, they were not. This is even more clear in the last clause where the word is not that they had never been of us, but that they are not of us. Their departure from the faith became final at some point prior to their leaving; but there is no suggestion by the apostle that those who departed had never been truly converted at the beginning of their Christian association. The fallen angels were not wicked from the beginning but became so; and Judas was not wicked when the Lord chose him as an apostle, but he fell "through transgression."
Even if those anti-Christ's were never of them then that proves an always lost person is always lost but does not prove eternal security.
Rev 2, so the church at Ephesus, even though sealed, could leave their first love, fall away and and have their church (candlestick) removed if they did not repent.
----------------------------
The bible is its own best commentary:
Jn 3:5--------spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>in kingdom
1cor12:13----spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in body
So water is equivalent to baptized born of water = baptized