Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[Morpheus]

Like, OMG, are you THE Morpheus???

If you take the red pill, you will find out. Take the blue pill and you will never know. The choice is yours alone. I cannot force this upon you.

 

[homwardbound]

The problem with that statement is the word "Witness". No one has been able to substatiate the stories of the man known as Jesus Christ beyond the fact he was a radical Jewish Rabbi who a initially small number of people believed he was the heralded Messiah. Many more people didn't believe him. As a result, the only thing we know for sure is that his followers were the most militant throughout history and were able to spread his mythology (and by this point it was mythology) throughout the world through a mixture of insurgency, uprising, oppression and in the modern era indoctrination and 'Brain Washing'. If there is a devine god then evidence to amass to that 60% has yet to surface and be tangible.

So be it, as you say

 

[homwardbound]

If the Sun were larger our planet would support life as we know it. But we could be having a similar conversation from the surface of mars. Or this solar system may not be able to support carbon based life, so this conversation will be being had in another system, or..... here is the scary possibility. there may be no other Carbon based intelligent life in our universe and the fleeting existence of the earth will disappear in the blink of an eye without any impact or implication the universe as a whole. I'm afraid you give our existence more importance in the universe than we as a species deserve. But in that fact you are no different to any other Christian.

To each their own we all have free will, and mine is to love all no matter what and is done for me through me by God the creator of all, in whom I believe through Son loved us and loves us all so deeply that he went to the cross for this world, to bring us into his kingdom in the Spirit not the flesh, is all I am saying in what I see as truth, just as you are doing the same to me, from your perspective, and you have taught me things I can't explain and I thank you for that, made my faith grow even stronger in ?Faith to God through Christ. Maybe I have done the same for you in your faith that there is no God. No matter I just love you because God first loved me and all the whole world. It is nothing more that a response to the creator of all in thanks and praises

 

[homwardbound]

If the Man Jesus Existed, which I will admit there is strong evidence to that fact then when he died, he died, he ceased to be, his body and brain ceased to operate and he died. The same way that every other human does. As for the longevity. I would highlight 2 points. A number of the stories of Christ have been verified by biblical scholars as being inherited from the amalgamated Roman Pagen Religion which pre dated Christianity. These include stories such as the activities that occured at the last supper and the resurrection. Documents which have been dated before the days of christ tell these stories of a different character. The official line of the Roman Catholic Church is that these documents were written by demons who travelled back in time to obscure the story of Christ. So we are now into the realms of Science Fiction.

In terms of these being special because of the longevity; what of the stories of ancient Egypt, the gods of ancient rome, the gods of sumeria. All of which are documented, all of which still have active followers today, and all of which predate Christianty by Centuries. Yes Christianity has been one of the most widespread Mono-theistic religions but with the might of the Roman Empire forcing it's influencial boot on the societies of Ancient Europe and Africa. The Military might of Medieval Kingdoms of England, France, Spain and Portugal Spreading their variations including the Puritan Pilgrim fathers of your nation who wanted to escape Europe when Puritan ethics were no longer tolerated by the now more educated masses. Atheists have had and even today retain reasons to fear violent suppression by those blinded by their faith. From the crusades to the spanish inquisition. Christianty has spread through conquest to be the major faith of the world. Exactly what people are now saying about Islam.

Every person when born are designed in such a way that whatever they think is a direct emotional feeling. Go to a scary movie, do people get scared? Do we react to the movie as we get into it? What is in control, we know the movie is not real, yet our emotions predictably react to whatever we are thinking right?
So do emotions (feelings) know any right or wrong?
Can anyone change how they feel, trying to change feelings

 

[homwardbound]

So does being told one of my parents are burning in hell for eternity.

But I'd never say anything as appalling as that to someone who isn't in my little sub group.

I see you are talking religion in its religiosity, and have been harmed by this. These fanatics are not of God or from God. that does just love them anyway, and by this unconditional love he has for us all, when we see this is; is when we will change and not condemn anyone, seeing how we deserved to be condemned and still deserve it. Yet he gave us life in Spirit by the resurrection of Son.
Now by the grace of God we are pardoned, So go on and say what you want to say, you are just showing the fallen flesh that God came to redeem through the cross of Son
There are a lot of people that harm the Mercy of God. It is man fallen flesh that can't please God
The battle is flesh verses Spirit of God in love to all
Adam and Eve that day were born in the flesh with a living soul they already had, not born in the Spirit of God?
God came to give us life in the Spirit that Adam and Eve never got along with every man after that, born of the flesh in need to be born again of the Spirit of God, it is that simple being offered from God as a free gift period. Now that is Mercy, that a lot of people miss or get at first and then forget, and start condemning others, to make then feel good about themselves trying to pass their sin(s) off onto another.
Refuse that which I think you do and are right now, right on, but please understand, this behavior of others is not of God

 

[homwardbound]

Conversely.. Would Fatally dangerous weather, germs, disease and horrible birth defects signify BAD design?

The bad design you speak is because of the fall of Adam and Eve. The restoration is Christ new life in him and through him by his finished works at the cross, the diciding line of Human history, before and after.

 

[homwardbound]

How did Sin create Germs? How did Sin create hurricanes? I need an explanation.

This world after the fall, of mankind is not God's. If it were he would not have gone to the cross and died for us. He would have fought as Peter thought when Peter cut off Malcus's ear to stop him from taking Christ away.
And Christ restored this man's ear, had Peter put away his sword and said If this were his kingdom here on this earth, then he would have had legions of angels here to fight, but his kingdom is not of this world
And so by his willingness to go to the cross to his deathhe by his resurrection made an:
Colossians 2:15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[homwardbound]

So sin is more powerful than god?

It must be Cos it totally undid what he created.

Death came by man not God. Free choice was to either eat from that tree or not and were told waht eating from that tree would bring forth and that is death. By free choice Adam brought death to mankind period
Now today God brought forth Mercy to all and is up to us again to either believe or not, if believe we get a get out of jail free card, and by trusting Father through Son we get to stay out of Jail

 

[homwardbound]

If you take the red pill, you will find out. Take the blue pill and you will never know. The choice is yours alone. I cannot force this upon you.

The Matrix is awesome in opening up one to truth at least for me and made my Faith grow stronger, and is why I am not religious nor do I go to church here on earth, only when I am called occasionally for God's purpose in freedom that the came for all to give this too
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-2[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.


[h=3]Hebrews 8:3-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

 

[Sophia1993]

So does being told one of my parents are burning in hell for eternity.

it shouldn't feel like anything to you since it isn't real.

 

[JesusLives]

That is an opinion, and you should not state it as fact. Facts are verifiable. Tell, do you know who Origen was?

Here I thought we were on the same side phil - the following are not my thoughts - I already gave my thoughts in post #475 I just wanted you to know I am not the only one to come to the same thought pattern - I googled and found the below I never heard of this person, but we think alike from the way the scripture is written. Enjoy

Question: "Is the King of Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 referring to Satan?"

Answer: At first glance, the prophecy in Ezekiel 28:11-19 seems to refer to a human king. Tyre was the recipient of some of the strongest prophetic condemnations in the Bible (Isaiah 23:1–18; Jeremiah 25:22; 27:1–11; Ezekiel 26:1–28:19; Joel 3:4–8; Amos 1:9,10). Tyre was known for building its wealth by exploiting its neighbors. Ancient writers referred to the city of Tyre as a city filled with unscrupulous merchants. Tyre was a center of religious idolatry and sexual immorality. The biblical prophets rebuked Tyre for its pride brought on by its great wealth and strategic location. Ezekiel 28:11-19 seems to be a particularly strong indictment against the King of Tyre in the prophet Ezekiel’s day, rebuking the king for his insatiable pride and greed.

However, some of the descriptions in Ezekiel 28:11-19 go beyond any mere human king. In no sense could an earthly king claim to be “in Eden” or to be “the anointed cherub who covers” or to be “on the holy mountain of God.” Therefore, most Bible interpreters believe that Ezekiel 28:11-19 is a dual prophecy, comparing the pride of the King of Tyre to the pride of Satan. Some propose that the King of Tyre was actually possessed by Satan, making the link between the two even more powerful and applicable.

Before his fall, Satan was indeed a beautiful creature (Ezekiel 28:12-13). He was perhaps the most beautiful and powerful of all the angels. The phrase “guardian cherub” possibly indicates that Satan was the angel who “guarded” God’s presence. Pride led to Satan’s fall. Rather than give God the glory for creating him so beautifully, Satan took pride in himself, thinking that he himself was responsible for his exalted status. Satan’s rebellion resulted in God casting Satan from His presence and will, eventually, result in God condemning Satan to the lake of fire for all eternity (Revelation 20:10).

Like Satan, the human King of Tyre was prideful. Rather than recognize God’s sovereignty, the King of Tyre attributed Tyre’s riches to his own wisdom and strength. Not satisfied with his extravagant position, the King of Tyre sought more and more, resulting in Tyre taking advantage of other nations, expanding its own wealth at the expense of others. But just as Satan’s pride led to his fall and will eventually lead to his eternal destruction, so will the city of Tyre lose its wealth, power, and status. Ezekiel’s prophecy of Tyre’s total destruction was fulfilled partially by Nebuchadnezzar (Ezekiel 29:17-21) and ultimately by Alexander the Great.

Recommended Resources: The Serpent of Paradise by Erwin Lutzer

Read more: Is the King of Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 referring to Satan?

 

[JesusLives]

Why are Christians even having this conversation/argument with atheists? I learned a long time ago that it's fruitless to argue with them. I'm pretty sure the bible says not to argue with a fool. Who is the fool? Psalm 14:1. you aren't going to change their mind. only God can do that. Proverbs 26:4. You are just wasting your time. That is all.

I am not trying to argue with the atheists - I am hanging out having conversations with them to try and understand why they believe the way they do and in hopes that I can share the love of God with them and show them not all Christians are condemning them to hell because of what they believe. God gave them a choice to choose just as He gave me. He will not force us to do anything against our will. So I love my brothers/sisters on this thread even if they call themselves atheists.

 

[JesusLives]

That is an opinion, and you should not state it as fact. Facts are verifiable. Tell, do you know who Origen was?

In answer to your question No don't know who Origen was I just google a min ago and read a little bit for the very first time, but still don't know about him.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

it shouldn't feel like anything to you since it isn't real.

Course it isn't real. A lot of abuse hurled at people isn't true... But it's still offensive at times.

 

[phil112]

Here I thought we were on the same side phil - the following are not my thoughts ...............................

If you believe in the bible and want to serve Christ and go to heaven, then we are indeed on the same side, as you put it.

.......................Now you might try to say to me that God was talking to the King of Tyre, but the bible also refers to Satan as being the King of Tyre and human kings are not generally referred to as cherubs/angels. God was talking about Lucifer/Satan in the above verses.........................

What you said, you did not qualify it as an opinion or what someone told you. You stated it as a simple fact, and that is something that can't be proven.

Origen believed it to be the city of Tyre, not satan, and again, that isn't verifiable fact. But if I was a betting man I would bet a ton that Origen was closer to being right about it than anyone you heard it from that it was satan.

 

[JesusLives]

If you believe in the bible and want to serve Christ and go to heaven, then we are indeed on the same side, as you put it.



What you said, you did not qualify it as an opinion or what someone told you. You stated it as a simple fact, and that is something that can't be proven.

Origen believed it to be the city of Tyre, not satan, and again, that isn't verifiable fact. But if I was a betting man I would bet a ton that Origen was closer to being right about it than anyone you heard it from that it was satan.

Yes I do and yes we are. To your first part

To the second part.
You just aren't willing to give an inch are ya? Forgive my stating of fact as you say, maybe I should have said other people/bible scholars have come to the same conclusion I have from studing that it was referring to Satan in Ezekiel 28. Is that better?

 

[mustaphadrink]

So sin is more powerful than god? It must be Cos it totally undid what he created.

As expected, you have this penchance to trivialise what is a serious attempt to explain the truth to you so let me ask you. Would you prefer to be someone who is allowed to make up your own mind or would you prefer to be someone who is nothing more than a robot who has to do what he is told when he is told?

 

[nl]

Worldview options concerning God can be summarized as:

• Atheism—there is no God
• Agnosticism—no one can know if there is a God
• Polytheism—there are many Gods
• Pantheism—everything is God
• Monotheism—there is only one God
• Deism—there is a God, but he has nothing to do with the world today

Adding to the list...

• Agnosticism - is the belief that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable.
• Concerned Agnostic - Agnostic who wants to know the truth about god if somehow it could be known.
• Unconcerned - Doesn't know and doesn't care.
• Idolater - Devoted to one or more invented gods formed by human imagination
• Syncretism - blending of one worldview with another. Syncretism combines different forms of belief or practice.

Note on monotheism - There is more than one type of monotheism. Professed monotheists may demonstrate some level of syncretism in practice. Major forms of monotheism include Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

 

[phil112]

Yes I do and yes we are. To your first part

To the second part.
(1)You just aren't willing to give an inch are ya? Forgive my stating of fact as you say, maybe (2)I should have said other people/bible scholars have come to the same conclusion I have from studing that it was referring to Satan in Ezekiel 28. Is that better?

1. Not when it comes to being accurate about the bible. And I make no apologies for that.

2. As I said, Origen, and other bible scholars, have come to different conclusions than yours. That doesn't make what they say any more factual than what you say, without evidence to support.

So yes, that's better.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

someone who is nothing more than a robot who has to do what he is told when he is told?

Isn't that how you should behave if you believe in god? And if you don't you'll burn in hell?