This is a pointless debate because the scientific model only goes as far as the moments after the big bang. We could talk about nuclear fission and fusion or about what could have existed before our sun. Simple answer, No body knows what came before the big bang just like we don;t know what is the otherside of a blackhole event horizon. This is not an excuse to fill the void with fairy tales or convenient fiction. It is braver to say we don;t know.
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phil112
Guest
That is an opinion, and you should not state it as fact. Facts are verifiable. Tell, do you know who Origen was?
Truth as a man thinketh, believeth so is he
Why would you word it this way? It sounds like you're trying to quote scripture, though a Google search turned up no biblical source. It's just confusing.
I know the bible has quotes in that format, which is why I said it "sounds like... Scripture" even though it clearly didn't come from Scripture. What I'm accusing you of is asserting something that you want to be backed up by the bible, not by citing the bible but rather by trying to make it *look* like you're trying to cite the bible.
If all you wanted to say is that "dominant thoughts... control [a] person", then I don't think anyone will disagree with you because that sounds like the most profoundly obvious thing I've heard today. I just don't understand why it needs to be said, or why it would be said as a rebuttal to an argument that you disagree with.
If this were a courtroom I would now say 'Objection your honour, Speculation'.
Yes and have been to trial. Was and have been accused, the prosecuting attorney, wow laid out all I have done and claims will do again and again to the judge. Then it came time for my Attorney to speak.
Now I had a public defender, could not afford an attorney and this one was appointed for me, and I did not know him. But when he stood up, I knew and saw as he spoke, he said to the Judge, Yes Father for all that was just said by the prosecutor is true, Howard here is guilty, and in his unredeemed flesh he can be again and again, but Howard Father has cried have Mercy on me please Jesus, and this has been passed on to you Father and you have accepted my sacrifice for Howard Thank you defense rests.
Verdict "not guilty" and in appreciation, response to this not guilty plea, I now just love you and all no matter how anyone else chooses to believe. It is not between you and me,m it is between you and God of this universe period
We are only called to Love, not for selfishness, out of consideration for all, thinking before doing anything that can and does harm our fellow man
Love to all is the key to freedom to all.
I am so sorry that you have been subjected to this kind of treatment by anyone. God is a God of love and He gave us a power of choice. The God I worship would never force you to choose to worship Him, as He only wants our love for Him in return by our choice. People can be very cruel in their words and actions, last week I was told because I belong to a certain denomination that I was a demon and going to go to hell if I didn't repent and change. Personally I would never tell anyone that myself just because I have a different belief than someone else. Jesus said many sheep I have that are not of this fold. He also said My sheep hear My voice. So again sorry you have been mistreated by so called Christians as I don't believe a true follower of Jesus would do that to you. If you have read anything about Jesus life on earth most of the times He got heated was against the hypocritical religious leaders of His day. We seem to have a lot of those in our time too. Blessings to you.
Yes true. yet something or someone had to create it all, and this is best known to me anyway, by the miracles that were done by Christ and then the witnesses that testified to his resurrection, anyway it is what it is
Out of the 100% knowledge to know all and if it is only 40% one can attain out of 100%, then in that other 60% can there be God?
nanos gigantum humeris insidentes
Knowledge is gained and learned with each generation. How we perceive the world around us grows and changes because scientific models allow for change. When you base your view of a world upon a piece of literature you have to change the reality to fit the model rather than the other way around. There is no evidence of a intelligent creation of design behind the universe or the way it works. The human being naturally looks for patterns in everything we do and perceive. If you want give that pattern the name God or Yahweh then go for it. But please do not assume any type of intelligence behind it.
Originally Posted by homwardbound
Truth as a man thinketh, believeth so is he
Originally Posted by Starcrash
Why would you word it this way? It sounds like you're trying to quote scripture, though a Google search turned up no biblical source. It's just confusing.
I know the bible has quotes in that format, which is why I said it "sounds like... Scripture" even though it clearly didn't come from Scripture. What I'm accusing you of is asserting something that you want to be backed up by the bible, not by citing the bible but rather by trying to make it *look* like you're trying to cite the bible.
If all you wanted to say is that "dominant thoughts... control [a] person", then I don't think anyone will disagree with you because that sounds like the most profoundly obvious thing I've heard today. I just don't understand why it needs to be said, or why it would be said as a rebuttal to an argument that you disagree with.
Okay, we all get to think, (believe) how we choose right? So we have Atheists, believers dogmatically and stress and strive is created right?
I mean are we not all looking to be at peace?
The problem with that statement is the word "Witness". No one has been able to substatiate the stories of the man known as Jesus Christ beyond the fact he was a radical Jewish Rabbi who a initially small number of people believed he was the heralded Messiah. Many more people didn't believe him. As a result, the only thing we know for sure is that his followers were the most militant throughout history and were able to spread his mythology (and by this point it was mythology) throughout the world through a mixture of insurgency, uprising, oppression and in the modern era indoctrination and 'Brain Washing'. If there is a devine god then evidence to amass to that 60% has yet to surface and be tangible.
So you are settled with it all was just a big bang, it is not intelligent that the sun is not closer or farther away than it is?
Nothing intelligent behind a big bang, man to me is so arrogant, prideful and just knows more than me, you or you, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is that not prideful?
You are loved no matter how deep you might search, you are loved the same as me and all the world
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phil112
Guest
The "problem" is that you pick and choose what sources you accept. At the time your source lived that called Him a "radical Jewish Rabbi", there also lived people that verified His word. Yet you chose to reject one and accept the other.
And there is evidence that proves "a devine god", yet once again, you choose to reject it.
Okay then why is this Christ if a myth gone on longer than any other, Now I believe these witness, and the greatest story(not a story) truth is an empty tomb. And in the testimony in Acts he hung around risen for forty days, before ascending on high.
Now you all have admitted to the fact that there is more than just this earth here, so where did Jesus go?
Anyway no one sees unless God permits one to see, and there are many that still do not see, even though they profess to believe and have hurt the Gospel in truth, because they have shown by there fruits in condemning others, which shows me they either are learning to love as God does, and later will truthfully apologize to you or whomever they condemned or they are fakes which will be revealed in due time, and many have left their belief because of these fake people of God, and this gets blamed on God and it is not of or from God.
Praying you might see who the true God is, for God just love you, bottom line, just as you are, and if you decide to change anything that is between God and you, you are free in God through Son Christ period, End of Story
God is truth and every man is not
If the Sun were larger our planet would support life as we know it. But we could be having a similar conversation from the surface of mars. Or this solar system may not be able to support carbon based life, so this conversation will be being had in another system, or..... here is the scary possibility. there may be no other Carbon based intelligent life in our universe and the fleeting existence of the earth will disappear in the blink of an eye without any impact or implication the universe as a whole. I'm afraid you give our existence more importance in the universe than we as a species deserve. But in that fact you are no different to any other Christian.
If the Man Jesus Existed, which I will admit there is strong evidence to that fact then when he died, he died, he ceased to be, his body and brain ceased to operate and he died. The same way that every other human does. As for the longevity. I would highlight 2 points. A number of the stories of Christ have been verified by biblical scholars as being inherited from the amalgamated Roman Pagen Religion which pre dated Christianity. These include stories such as the activities that occured at the last supper and the resurrection. Documents which have been dated before the days of christ tell these stories of a different character. The official line of the Roman Catholic Church is that these documents were written by demons who travelled back in time to obscure the story of Christ. So we are now into the realms of Science Fiction.
In terms of these being special because of the longevity; what of the stories of ancient Egypt, the gods of ancient rome, the gods of sumeria. All of which are documented, all of which still have active followers today, and all of which predate Christianty by Centuries. Yes Christianity has been one of the most widespread Mono-theistic religions but with the might of the Roman Empire forcing it's influencial boot on the societies of Ancient Europe and Africa. The Military might of Medieval Kingdoms of England, France, Spain and Portugal Spreading their variations including the Puritan Pilgrim fathers of your nation who wanted to escape Europe when Puritan ethics were no longer tolerated by the now more educated masses. Atheists have had and even today retain reasons to fear violent suppression by those blinded by their faith. From the crusades to the spanish inquisition. Christianty has spread through conquest to be the major faith of the world. Exactly what people are now saying about Islam.
In terms of these being special because of the longevity; what of the stories of ancient Egypt, the gods of ancient rome, the gods of sumeria. All of which are documented, all of which still have active followers today, and all of which predate Christianty by Centuries. Yes Christianity has been one of the most widespread Mono-theistic religions but with the might of the Roman Empire forcing it's influencial boot on the societies of Ancient Europe and Africa. The Military might of Medieval Kingdoms of England, France, Spain and Portugal Spreading their variations including the Puritan Pilgrim fathers of your nation who wanted to escape Europe when Puritan ethics were no longer tolerated by the now more educated masses. Atheists have had and even today retain reasons to fear violent suppression by those blinded by their faith. From the crusades to the spanish inquisition. Christianty has spread through conquest to be the major faith of the world. Exactly what people are now saying about Islam.
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Sophia1993
Guest
Why are Christians even having this conversation/argument with atheists? I learned a long time ago that it's fruitless to argue with them. I'm pretty sure the bible says not to argue with a fool. Who is the fool? Psalm 14:1. you aren't going to change their mind. only God can do that. Proverbs 26:4. You are just wasting your time. That is all.
Please present this evidence that you have. You might be in line for a Nobel Prize.
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phil112
Guest
It is the same evidence that is recognized in legal courts around the globe: Testimony from credible witnesses. There are people, such as myself, that have experienced supernatural events at their request, and are as surely convinced of it as truth as a unanimous jury verdict.
But there are always those, such as yourself, that refuse to accept evidence and the result is a hung jury. Fortunately my eternal destination rests only on my acceptance of Christ, not yours.
