The Importance of Rightly Dividing the word of Truth

[ChosenbyHim]

but this "Church Age" 'gospel':



comes to an end, God becomes a respecter of persons; and some other way of salvation begins because....



can you clean up this heretical mess Chosen?

where are there 2 bodies?
huh?

The two bodies or groups of people can be found in Revelation 7:


7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. - Revelation 7:1-17 (King James Bible)



The first group of people is the Jews. They are highlighted in Black. And we read about them from Rev. 7:3-8.


The second group of people are the Gentile Nations which get saved during the time of Jacob's trouble. And they are highlighted in Blue.


The 144,000 servants which are sealed in their foreheads with the Seal of God are Jews. We know this because they are selected from the twelve tribes of the Children of Israel.


We know that the second group of people are Gentiles because according to Rev. 7:9 this great multitude is of all Nations, and kindreds, and tongues, and people.


It's very clear Zone. There is a definite distinction being made in the context of the whole chapter of Revelation 7. And it is a distinction between the Jews (144,000) and the Gentiles (a great multitude of all nations, tongues, and people).


Start reading the Bible and taking what it says literally. And not just figuratively or allegorically.

how do people get saved in YOUR version of Jacob's Future Trouble?

It is NOT MY version of the time of Jacob's trouble. It is what the Scriptures teach.


I already answered this question Zone. Salvation in the time of Jacob's trouble will be by faith AND works. There will be an element of works for a tribulation saint. Read Rev. 12 and 14. And then go back to the Gospels and read Matthew 25 and Mark 13. And then go to James' epistle and read it.

so what's the other gospel? (there is no other btw).

There is more than one Gospel in the Scripture as a whole. In the Church Age, we are to preach only the Gospel which was delivered to Paul, which is the Gospel of Grace (Acts 20:24), also known as the Gospel of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:1-6).


But in the time of Jacob's trouble, the Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached:


13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. - Matthew 24:13-14 (King James Bible)


And also the everlasting Gospel:



6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. - Revelation 14:6-12 (King James Bible)

dispensationalists:

is ChosenbyHim preaching the Biblical gospel?

if not, what's wrong with it?

Zone, question for you:

Do you really believe that the Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24) and that the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 4:23, 24:14) is the same Gospel???

 

[LT]

Do you really believe that the Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24) and that the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 4:23, 24:14) is the same Gospel???

Paul preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. They are the same message. Read the Book of Acts. The Gospel of the Kingdom never stopped being preached, even after the 'rejection of Messiah'.

(one example is Acts 28:31, but the whole book is full of references)

Rightly dividing is wise. Dividing for the sake of division is foolishness.
But you will read the verse I posted, and ignore the implications, because you are not here to learn.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

[/SIZE][/COLOR]What about them? Did they NEED saved?

Well EG, what was the CONDITION and COMMANDMENT for them that needed to be heeded and obeyed in order for them to remain in right standing and fellowship with God?

[/COLOR]
Again, Did they need saved? Your logic boggles the mind. They did not need saved. They did not need grace. Thus your question is invalid.
[/SIZE]

Again, Well EG, what was the CONDITION and COMMANDMENT for them that needed to be heeded and obeyed in order for them to remain in right standing and fellowship with God?

Funny thing is. Adam (after the fall) Noah, and all other people who were saved pre cross was saved the same way. Thus I am not sure what your trying to argue here.

My point here EG, was that the Old Testament Patriarchs, before, during, and after the giving of the Law, were not saved by looking forward to the cross.

And you would be in error. Because they will be saved the same way, As the same gospel which is taught by us is spread out by the 144000, and the two witnesses. and the ones who are saved by them.

No EG, you are the one in error here. They will not be saved the same way in the tribulation (time of Jacob's trouble), that we today in the Church Age are saved.


The Gospel today which is taught and preached by us is the Gospel of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection (1 Cor. 15:1-6).


We do not preach the Gospel of the Kingdom today. Again EG, things which are different are NOT THE SAME.


God is a God of Distinction.


In the time of Jacob's trouble, the Gospel of the Kingdom is preached by the 144,000 Jews (Matthew 24:14).


And one of the reasons that the Gospel of the Kingdom is preached is to prepare the Jews to receive their Messiah and His Kingdom.

There is no other gospel. never has been, never will be

Well then explain to me what the Gospel of the Kingdom is.


And then also explain to me what the Gospel of the Grace of God is.

lol. I am completely sure of truth.

Works has never saved anyone. Never will.

Works will be needed with faith for salvation in the time of Jacob's trouble:


20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. - James 2:20-26 (King James Bible)

To say works will save is to say we can make up for the penalty of sin (which is death) by something other than death, and mocks and denys the perfect Cross. Which paid the penalty of death for all men.

People in the time of Jacob's trouble are saved differently than people living today in the Church Age.


IN the present dispensation, no works are needed for Salvation. It is by grace through faith alone (Eph. 2).


But in the time of Jacob's trouble, after the Rapture of the body of Christ, people will be saved by faith with an element of WORKS.


A tribulation saint cannot take the mark of the Beast, because if he does take it, he loses his salvation (Hebrews 3, 6, and 10).


That is why he must endure unto the end to be saved (Matt. 24:13, Mk. 13:13). It requires effort on his part to be saved during the Great Tribulation.


And that is why the tribulation saints are described by one of the Elders in Heaven as follows:


"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."


It's faith AND works in the time of Jacob's trouble. Rev. 7:14 clearly teaches that it is.

 

[SarahM777]

Start reading the Bible and taking what it says literally. And not just figuratively or allegorically.

[/QUOTE]

UMMM Chosen,

Bit of a problem when you start taking the whole Bible as being literal. First even in the OT prophecies were NOT all literal.
If you take the entire Bible as being literal you have God being this

or this

Jesus being this

and us looking like this

When figurative speech is used it is meant to be a picture,not literal.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Paul preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. They are the same message. Read the Book of Acts. The Gospel of the Kingdom never stopped being preached, even after the 'rejection of Messiah'.

(one example is Acts 28:31, but the whole book is full of references)

Rightly dividing is wise. Dividing for the sake of division is foolishness.
But you will read the verse I posted, and ignore the implications, because you are not here to learn.

Of course I am here to learn LT.


And yes in the book of Acts, the apostles were still reaching out to the Jews. The book of Acts is a transitional book. Keep that in mind LT.


Also keep Acts 28 in context:


19 But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.
20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
21 And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghostby Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him. - Acts 28:19-31 (King James Bible)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Start reading the Bible and taking what it says literally. And not just figuratively or allegorically.

[/QUOTE]

UMMM Chosen,

Bit of a problem when you start taking the whole Bible as being literal. First even in the OT prophecies were NOT all literal.
If you take the entire Bible as being literal you have God being this

or this

Jesus being this

and us looking like this

When figurative speech is used it is meant to be a picture,not literal.

Sarah, you know what I meant when I said taking what the Bible says literally. Of course there are examples in the Scriptures used in the figurative sense, but it is to give us an understanding of the literal interpretation of the Holy Scriptures. Also keep in mind Sarah, that Scripture uses both Figurative and Non-Figurative Speech and Language.


Therefore the literal interpretation of the Holy Scriptures is NOT hindered by the use of Figurative language within its text.

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah, you know what I meant when I said taking what the Bible says literally. Of course there are examples in the Scriptures used in the figurative sense, but it is to give us an understanding of the literal interpretation of the Holy Scriptures. Also keep in mind Sarah, that Scripture uses both Figurative and Non-Figurative Speech and Language.


Therefore the literal interpretation of the Holy Scriptures is NOT hindered by the use of Figurative language within its text.

No I am not quite sure what you mean. See people have often taken images from Revelation to try to make them literal when the OT already gives us the meaning. Revelation has more symbolism taken from the Old Testament then other book in the New Testament. The OT symbolism opens up Revelation. To take most of Revelation and make it literal ignores the clear meaning that scripture gives to those same symbols elsewhere in the Bible.

 

[homwardbound]

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Hosea 4:6

I would also recommend reading Proverbs - loaded with verses concerning knowledge.

Thanks and I ask for God's knowledge as God sees fit trusting God to do what I my flesh can't do. I call it an exchanged life my life for Christ's at no credit to self ever/ Read all of proverbs many times and still get more out of it every time read over

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. They are the same message. Read the Book of Acts. The Gospel of the Kingdom never stopped being preached, even after the 'rejection of Messiah'.

(one example is Acts 28:31, but the whole book is full of references)

Rightly dividing is wise. Dividing for the sake of division is foolishness.
But you will read the verse I posted, and ignore the implications, because you are not here to learn.

I think you are right. Alot of people we can post and post and post, and they will not listen to truth when it stares them in the face. Like the pharisees, They are too hard hearted.

 

[weakness]

It has always been that he that endures to the end shall be saved. It is to the point of just how destructive and heretical once saved always saved has crepe d into the conversation ,without our even knowing it. Faith without works is dead!!! Ezekiel heard from the lord 33:11 I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked , but that the wicked turn from his ways.12 The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness: neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. 15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statues of life,without committing iniquity he shall surely live.16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him. yet you say the way of the lord is not equal. James 1:22 but be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.27 Pure religion and undefiled before God is this to visit the fatherless and the widows in their affliction and to keep ones self unspotted from the world .13 for he shall have judgement without mercy that has shewn no mercy and mercy rejoices against judgment What does it profit though a man say he has faith and have not works,can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or a sister be destitute of daily food, and one of you say depart in peace be ye warmed and fill : notwithstanding you give them not the things needful to the body , how dwells the love of God in you,and what does it profit? Even so faith if it has not works is dead being alone.18 yes a man might say though has faith and I have works , shew me your faith without your works... for you can not ,But I will shew you my faith by my works. 24 you see then how that by works is a man justified ,and not by faith only 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead ,So faith without works is dead also.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

No I am not quite sure what you mean. See people have often taken images from Revelation to try to make them literal when the OT already gives us the meaning. Revelation has more symbolism taken from the Old Testament then other book in the New Testament. The OT symbolism opens up Revelation. To take most of Revelation and make it literal ignores the clear meaning that scripture gives to those same symbols elsewhere in the Bible.

Okay Sarah, let me clarify to you what I mean.


First let me share with you a very good excerpt and definition of the literal method of interpretation of the Holy Scriptures.

[SIZE=+1]Excerpt From Principles of the Literal Bible Interpretation
[/SIZE]
By Cooper P. Abrams, III
​

Accepting what the words literally mean is a vital part of this first rule. Unless the passage says otherwise, or is clearly using metaphorical languate give Scripture a literal meaning. It is a well stated rule, "If the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense."

• A. The example of Revelation 20:6.
• 
  
  • 1. For example, Revelation 20:6, states that Christ will reign for one thousand years after the Great Tribulation. This thousand years is called the "Millennium" and the verse "literally" states that the time period is one thousand years. Amillennialists falsely assert that this thousand years is only figurative to support their belief that there will not be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth. They deny there will be a thousand year reign of Christ although the Bible says He will rule for a thousand years. They falsely teach it only means some indefinite period of time.
    
    
    2. Here is the problem. If it does not mean a literal one thousand years then how do we go about determining its "real" meaning? Often we are told to let the Bible commentator or scholar tell you, because he has education and incites that the ordinary Christians does not have?! The problem with this answer is which Bible commentator should not go to who you can trust has the correct answer? With what criteria do you test each commentator to see who is correct. Do you see the problem? When you leave the literal method of interpreting Scripture you have no means to determine what the passage says! It is left up to each person to determine for himself what it means without any standard or system of rules to follow. Clearly, this leads to great confusion and makes it impossible to know what God intend to tell us!
    
    
    3. It is obvious from reading Revelation 20, that the thousand years is literal and not figurative. There is nothing in the passage that would indicate that the period of time is figurative. Thus if we accept literally what the Bible says we are letting the Bible interpret itself. The correct interpretation of the passage is that Christ will literally reign for one thousand years on earth! The literal meaning of the words tell us what God said. There is no confusion or misunderstanding. The question the "spiritualizers" of the Bible should ask themselves is, why did God say literally that this period of time would be a thousand years? If He had some other period in mind, why did not just plainly state what He meant? Why would He say one thing and mean something else. Clearly, the truth is that God said what He meant. He said one Christ will reign one thousands years because that is what will happen.
• • - (Principles of the Literal Bible Interpretation, Cooper P. Abrams, III)

And now Sarah, I will share one more excerpt from Cooper Abrams great work (Principles of the Literal Bible Interpretation) that deals with this important subject of Literal Interpretation of the Holy Scriptures:

• Do the details and specific instructions of the Bible really matter with God? The only place to find the answer is to ask God Himself and the only non subjective place to seek the answer is His written word. Therefore, to resolve the matter and find what God wants we must determine what "thus saith the Lord" because God is the Authority. It is His word! This makes it paramount that one be able to interpret the Bible and determine its absolute meaning. It is a cunning trick of the Devil, that has convinced some men that we cannot know accurately God's truth.
• 
  The problem today is not that God did not give us a method of interpretation. God did give us a method, but many men and churches have refused to use it or not been diligent in seeking it! The method that God gave is theliteral method, or what is called the Grammatical-Historical Method. The Grammatical-Historical method interprets Scripture by taking into consideration the context of a passage, the grammatical uses of the words, and the historical setting in which they were written. The literal method, therefore, "lets Scripture interpret Scripture." It is not a new method in any sense of the word, and is the only method in which the Scriptures interpret the Scriptures.
• 
  The literal method is letting God interpret what He has said. Surely, God is best qualified to tell us what He means. The Bible is the complete word of God to man. Revelation 22:18, says man is not to add to or subtract from the Word of God, the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, clearly states that God gave us the Bible. The verses tell us that the Bible is " . . . profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." When God "breathed" on the writers of Scripture they literally produced the Word of God, completely and accurately. The Bible is not the word of men, but God’s very word as He explains:
• 
  
• 
  
  • "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:20-21)
  
  
  This is called the doctrine of "verbal plenary inspiration," and means God chose each word for its specific meaning. He verbally, fully (plenary) inspired the recording of His written word. God inspired or superintended the writers to use each word because that word conveyed a certain and specific meaning. The words God inspired were given to communicate a certain meaning to those who read it. This means that if we find what was the correctmeaning of the word, considering its context, normal and customary usage at the time it was used, we can know the correct interpretation. The interpretation is the meaning God wanted His words to convey.
  

• Chapter 1. FOLLOW THE CUSTOMARY USAGES OF THE LANGUAGE.
• ​
  We have dictionaries that are lists of words with their spelling and definition. A word can have several meanings, but the meaning of a word has a limited meaning. For an example the word "mountain" could be referring to many types of hills of various heights and compositions, but it would NOT be referring to a "tree." The customary, and grammatical meaning of the word "mountain" is a geographical mound or hill of some sort. It would be improper to imply that when the writer used the word "mountain," he was referring to a tree or anything else. It could be used figuratively. For example a person could say "He was a mountain of strength." If used in this manner it would be clearlyapparent in the sentence that this was not a literal mountain, but was a metaphor. A metaphor is a tool of writing that uses the characteristics on one thing to describe this trait in something else. For example one could say that "John was a tower of strength." It would not mean he was a literal “tower” but his strength put him above others.
• 
  Often, Bible interpreters incorrectly give Scripture an allegorical or so called "spiritual" meaning. Paul Lee Tan uses the following example of an allegorical interpretation of Scripture. One Stoicinterpreter allegorically interpreted the biblical account of the journey of Abraham from Ur to Haran as an imaginary trip of a Stoic philosopher who left his sensual understanding and after a time arrived back at his senses! This allegorical interpretation has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham's journey and is a totally false understanding of the biblical passage. Another example of misusing allegory would be to teach that the two pence given to the inn keeper in the parable of the Good Samaritan, represents Baptism and Lord's Supper.
• 
  The only proper time to use allegory in interpreting God's word is when the Scripture itself instructs us to do such as in Galatians 4:24. Paul presenting the distinctness between grace and the bondage of the law compared Sarah and Hagar allegorically to illustrate there differences. Sarah was a free woman, but Hagar a bondwomen. The heir of Abraham would be through Sarah the freewoman, his wife, and not to the bondwoman who was not free. There is no mystical or hidden meaning in Scripture. There can be symbolism in God's word, but it will be clear. Biblical allegory is a tool of language that will illustrate a literal meaning.

- (Principles of the Literal Bible Interpretation, Cooper P. Abrams, III)


And finally to conclude Sarah, let me make one more point regarding this vital subject which is being discussed. And that is this Sarah:


The Scripture has 3 types of applications.


And these are the following:


1) Every verse of Scripture has a Historical application. Because the Scripture is genuine History. It is Book of History.


2) Every verse of Scripure has a Doctrinal application. The Holy Bible is a Book of Doctrine. It teaches theological and Doctrinal truths. In fact, according to 2 Timothy 3:16, the primary reason and purpose for the writing of the Holy Scripture was for Doctrine.




3) Every verse of Scripture also has a devotional/ or spiritual application. This is because the Holy Bible is also a Devotional and Spiritual Book. It teaches spiritual and devotional lessons.


So again, the Holy Scripture is a Book of genuine History. Secondly, the Holy Bible is a Doctrinal Book. It is a Book of Doctrine. And thirdly, the Holy Bible is a Devotional and Spiritual Book. Devotional in the sense that it should be a part of a Christian's daily reading, study, and devotion.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Well I hope this helped Sarah. And if there is anything that you would like me to clarify, please let me know.

 

[homwardbound]

Chosenbyhim

Please tell me what you think about this post here below please

If historyis anything to go by, it seems that the more 'right' a person feels they are intheir theology and ideology, the more justified they also feel not to love;justified by their theology and ideology to separate, to exclude, to reject, toblame, to ridicule, to suppress.


But who is 'right'... probably none of us.We're all musing and contemplating, forming thoughts and interpretations oflife and Scripture, and zooming along upon a planet the size of a grain of sandcompared to the ocean we call our universe.


History's worse atrocities, both great andsmall, were done by people who believed their theology and ideology was 'right'... and more than that, that these beliefs justified the evil actions theydragged humanity through.


Our question to ourselves, therefore, shouldnot be "Am I right?" but rather "Am I loving?" because loveis God's desire. Love is what brings about hope and healing. Love, not theologyand ideology, is what brings heaven to earth, not the other way round.


We're all wrong, at least far more wrong aboutfar more things than we currently realize, that will become known at some pointI'm sure. But how much do we love others, right here and right now, within ourwrongness? ... that is the question.


Mick Mooneywrote this on Face book and I think it awesome
Homwardbound

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Where did you get that from? I don't know if you realize this but in this Christian walk, faith and works go hand and hand. That is the premise of James 2. Because we believe, we obey and do. Those 2 verses that you gave in Revelation has NOTHING to do with a new Gospel. That is the same Gospel that Jesus spoke. (John 14:23)

Sure; in a spiritual sense and application.

But keep this in mind; Faith is all one needs to be saved in this dispensation.

Then works come after salvation. Works are not done to keep one saved. Works are done to be in the direct will of God and to earn rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

But after the rapture of the church, a new dispensation begins.

And in the new dispensation (Daniel's 70th week), faith AND works will be needed for one to be saved. Just read Matthew 25. what determines whether or not a person gets entrance into the Millennial Kingdom is how he treated Jesus' brethren (the Jews) during the time of Jacob's trouble. It's WORKS.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

1 Peter 1




The Messiah commands much work of us in His Testimony.

There is one New Covenant.

Hebrews 8

Doctrinally, the New Covenant mentioned in Hebrews 8 is for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It is not for the church.


4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. - Hebrews 8:4-13 (King James Bible)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

1 Peter 1




The Messiah commands much work of us in His Testimony.

There is one New Covenant.

Hebrews 8

Also you can check out this good video which brother Edward did in also showing from the Holy Scriptures why the New Covenant mentioned in Hebrews 8 is for the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

And not the church.

The New Covenant not for the Church

[video=youtube;wQ2yvdHEkWs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ2yvdHEkWs[/video]​

Published on Mar 26, 2013
This is a video showing from Heb.8 is not speaking about the Church, as the Covenant theologicans want to interpret to be doing. It is speaking of the New Covenant made to the tribes of Israel, removing the Old Covenant of the Mosaic Covenant, which could not save, with a New Covenant, in which God will save all of Israel.
The modern versions remove the words 'New Testament' and replace them with the words 'New Covenant' to hide the distinction between the two.
Go to Psa.19:7 video, the 'cult of dispensationalism' and see his denial of clear reading of scripture.
Go to the same video and see 'projectcould' and see how he denies that the unbelieving Jew is still special in the eyes of God, since he is 'beloved for the father's sake' and God has preserved him and put him back in the land to give the Jew his promises after the Tribulation.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The two words are still at different meanings church is building not gathering,

Homwardbound, where in the Bible does the word church ever refer to a building??

 

[LT]

Doctrinally, the New Covenant mentioned in Hebrews 8 is for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It is not for the church.

Hebrews 8:4-13 (King James Bible)

This is where your hermeneutic goes horribly wrong. If Hebrews can't be applied to the current 'dispensation' then 1. the blood atonement of Christ is not not for this 'dispensation' either, 2. the types given in the Old Testament don't apply to our redemption in Christ, and furthermore, 3. and your theory of works based salvation during the Great Tribulation is obviously wrong because Hebrews preaches faith-based salvation, not of works.

Rightly divide the Word of God, not hack-n'-slash the Scriptures.

2 Timothy 3:16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
NIV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
AKJV


All Scripture is for THIS DISPENSATION!
You can throw out the parts you disagree with, or explain them away; but you will be judged harshly for teaching others to do the same.

 

[homwardbound]

Homwardbound, where in the Bible does the word church ever refer to a building??

Lookk up te word church translated to Greek

THE CORRECT MEANING OF "CHURCH" AND "ECCLESIA"

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Okay and what about later on in Acts where Peter preaches the word, rather God through Peter in the power of the Holy Ghost, Acts 10 and they receive the Holy Ghost new life, without water Baptism.
And Peter realizes this and states this in acts 11
[h=3]Acts 11:15-17[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
So who are any one of us to stand in the way of God and require others to do this or that, nullifying the gift of God adding works to his grace through Christ?

Well again; Acts is a transitional book. Acts 2:38 illustrates this truth.

And as the revelation progresses in the book of Acts, people begin to receive the Holy Ghost as they hear the word which Peter preaches (Acts 10:44, & Acts 11:15-18).

The conversion in Acts 2:38 came when the Jews and Proselytes repented and were baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

In Acts 10:40-45, we see salvation coming also to the Gentiles. Since Cornelius was a gentile.

Also the conversion in both Acts 10 and 11, came before water baptism. This therefore is proof of how the book of Acts is a transitional book.