The Importance of Rightly Dividing the word of Truth

[zone]

HOW TO NOT UNDERSTAND Re: The Importance of Rightly Dividing the word of Truth

HyperDispo 21
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
Therefore the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof......but then that nation will be raptured away for 7 years, and then the kingdom of God will be given back you in earthly Jerusalem after the Mystery Gap Church Dispensation is over.

uh...no.
wrong

 

[zone]

Here is another important distinction that needs to be made in order for one to understand the Scriptures and Bible Prophecy.

In the Dispensation of Grace (Church Age), the temple of God is in the body of every true born again Christian:

hi Chosen:

could you rightly divide the word of truth concerning something paul said,please?

what did paul mean here (in reference to the Dispensation of Grace (Church Age):

1 Corinthians 7
13If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

is this Covenant language?

hmm....the children of a believer & and unbeliever - who is made holy (consecrated) by the believer - their children are not "unclean" but are holy (consecrated).

Malachi 2:15
Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

dunno...you tell me.

can people New Covenant people end up unfaithful?
the bible says they can.

so what's up with the children (infants) being holy? (consecrated)

 

[zone]

One other thing LT, are you aware that there will be a Second Resurrection???


But check this out, I just looked for the term Second Resurrection, and it does not appear anywhere in the Holy Bible.


While the term "Second Resurrection" does not appear in the Holy Bible, a Second Resurrection is still taught and implied in the Holy Bible?


How?


Well if there is a First Resurrection, well then there must be a Second Resurrection.


And again, if the First Resurrection is only the Resurrection of Tribulation Saints (Rev. 20:4), well then what about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and the Old Testament Saints with Him at Jerusalem ( Matt. 27:52-53) and the Resurrection at the Rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:16-18)?


I now ask you LT, How could those two resurrections just mentioned not be a part of the First Resurrection?


Jesus Christ is called the firstfruits of them that slept:


20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. - 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (King James Bible)



After reading this passage of Scripture, it should be very clear that the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Matt. 27:52-53) was a part of the First Resurrection

um...right.

and blessed are those have part in CHRIST'S RESURRECTION the first ressurection - on THEM, the second death has no claim

Romans 6
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Ephesians 2:6
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus

so that leaves THE RESURRECTION - of the just and the unjust...on the last day.

which is not before the rapture; at the rapture or 1,000 years after the rapture.

it's on the LAST DAY.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

so then why do the other jews (who are chosen) get left behind to be killed when you and the Body get raptured before the tribulation.

Because only the Body of Christ (saved, born again believers) will partake in the Translation (Rapture).



If a Jew wants to partake in the Rapture of the body of Christ, then he must get saved in this Dispensation by coming to repentance and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.


So a Jew can partake in the Rapture, but again, he must get saved first. Because only born again Christians will partake in the Rapture.

how do they get saved in that DISPENSATION.

In the time of Jacob's trouble, Jews get saved by keeping the commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus Christ.


And they cannot take the mark of the beast; because if they do, they automatically lose their salvation (Heb. 6 & Heb. 10).


17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. - Revelation 12:17 (King James Bible)



7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. - Revelation 14:7-12 (King James Bible)

do people in the tribulation dispensation - which you and the Church are not here for - baptize in water.
why would they.

Again Zone, that is a really good question. That I need to do some study on. To the best of my knowledge, I don't believe that water baptism is in effect. Again, though I need to do a study on that to verify whether that is the case or not. I am aware though that the Sabbath, the keeping of the Sabbath is brought back in during the time of Jacob's trouble:



15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:15-27 (King James Bible)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Okay, what about the Holy Ghost coming on to Cornelius and family as Peter spoke the word to them before water Baptism was ever placed on them?
I mean if they had NOT gotten water Baptized after the receiving of the Holy Ghost, would they have still been saved? Or would God have repented and taken away what God had obviously already given, a born again life to us Gentiles, without any works on their own.

10 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. - Acts 10:1-48 (King James Bible)



From reading this passage of Scripture, I would say yes to your question Homwardbound. I believe that they would have still been saved even if they would have not had the chance to get water baptized. And I believe this is the case because Cornelius and his house (family) already had received the Holy Ghost. Therefore they were saved already.


Keep in mind also Homwardbound, that Acts is a Transitional book. In Acts 2:38, they had to get baptized in water first to receive the Holy Ghost.



29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 2:29-38 (King James Bible)



But as we have already seen in Acts 10, there is a slight change, in that the Holy Ghost came upon them as they heard the word (Acts 10:44-46).


Therefore, I believe that in Acts 10, that their conversion came before they were baptized in water.

 

[LT]

Keep in mind also Homwardbound, that Acts is a Transitional book. In Acts 2:38, they had to get baptized in water first to receive the Holy Ghost.

But as we have already seen in Acts 10, there is a slight change, in that the Holy Ghost came upon them as they heard the word (Acts 10:44-46).

Therefore, I believe that in Acts 10, that their conversion came before they were baptized in water.

I am pretty sure that these passages show that God didn't send they Holy Spirit with a specific system, but instead, sent it whenever He deemed it proper.
It is foolish to say that God changed His way of doing things from one way to another. He is not tame or predictable, because His Ways are still a mystery to us. He is GOD.
He sends when He wants to send, and withholds when He wants to withhold.
When He makes a promise, He keeps it. When He has a plan, it works out as He planned. But, if He didn't make a specific promise, and if He doesn't make His plan clear for a situation, then to us, what He does may seem unpredictable. But He is still God, and His ways are still good.

God did promise that faith in Christ is salvation to those who believe. Therefore, salvation occurs before the Spirit. The Spirit is a secondary promise, given to those who are already saved.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I'm still stuck on the first sentence,,,,"the answer is no.the 144,000 are not Christians at all.they are Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel:",,,,,,are you saying they are there and sealed with the name of god(so they have obtained the father),,,,but they are not christian. is there any other way to the father than than through the son?,,,,

that is we agreeing with this statement have the 144,000 being saved and in the presence of the father by some other method than the son.,,,,,see john chapter 10,,,,john 10;9,,,,,,"i am the door",,,if they are saved and they entered by the only door(Christ crucified),,,then they are christian(acts 4;12).,,,,,,there are not one group that can come by one method and another that come in by another,,,,,,,,,,

What you must realize is that in the Church Age, there is no distinctIon between Jew and Gentile in the body of Christ (Gal. 3:28-29).

The 144,000 Jewish servants and evangelists show up in the time of Jacob's trouble [Revelation 7:3-8 & 14:1-5 (Daniel's 70th week)], not the Church Age.

They are called the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And they are virgins (Rev. 14:4).

So because there will be a distinction between Jew and Gentile in the time of Jacob's trouble, it should indeed be pointed out that the 144,000 are sealed Jews from all the tribes of the children of Israel (Rev. 7:3).

Also keep in mind sir that Israel is not the church and that the church is not Israel. The Church has NOT replaced Israel.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You are correct. one must rightly divide, but what makes you think you are?It is beliefs like this which gets people to deny dispensational theology. God temple in the NT will be the same as the temple in the tribulational period.

No it will not. Today, the temple of God in the Church Age is the body of the born again believer:


16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. - 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (King James Bible)




14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (King James Bible)



Those passages I just referenced show that today in the dispensation of the Grace of God, that the temple of God is the body of every true born again Christian.


But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there will be a physical temple that is located in Jerusalem.


And it is in that very temple where the antichrist will stand in:



3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (King James Bible)



Again, have a look for yourself at the layout and blueprint of the Temple that is being built right now and that preparations are being made for:



[video=youtube;vFnckQrgO7s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnckQrgO7s[/video]



And that is just a glimpse of what is going on, involving the preparation for the tribulation temple.

God is not going to work through the temple anymore. Why Go back to the symbol when the symbol has already been fulfilled in CHrist.

Again, there will be a physical temple in Jerusalem in the time of Jacob's trouble:



11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. - Revelation 11:1-6 (King James Bible)

People in the tribulation will be saved the same as those today. And have since the begining of time. By faith in God removing their sin by his mercy through redemption.

People in the time of Jacob's trouble will be saved differently than the people of today. Today in the Church Age, salvation is by grace through faith without works (Eph. 2:8-10, Titus 3:4-6, Romans 4:4-5).



But in Daniel's 70th week (time of Jacob's trouble), salvation will be by faith AND works (Hebrews 3:6, James 2:14-26, Revelation 12:17; & 14:9-12)

 

[LT]

No it will not. Today, the temple of God in the Church Age is the body of the born again believer:


16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. - 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (King James Bible)

...

Those passages I just referenced show that today in the dispensation of the Grace of God, that the temple of God is the body of every true born again Christian.

But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there will be a physical temple that is located in Jerusalem.

And it is in that very temple where the antichrist will stand in:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (King James Bible)

Again, have a look for yourself at the layout and blueprint of the Temple that is being built right now and that preparations are being made for:

And that is just a glimpse of what is going on, involving the preparation for the tribulation temple.

Again, there will be a physical temple in Jerusalem in the time of Jacob's trouble:

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. - Revelation 11:1-6 (King James Bible)

People in the time of Jacob's trouble will be saved differently than the people of today. Today in the Church Age, salvation is by grace through faith without works (Eph. 2:8-10, Titus 3:4-6, Romans 4:4-5).

But in Daniel's 70th week (time of Jacob's trouble), salvation will be by faith AND works (Hebrews 3:6, James 2:14-26, Revelation 12:17; & 14:9-12)

I think you are right in the result, but wrong in the spirit of it.
The Temple will be rebuilt. It will resemble the Holy Temple, but it will be an apostate temple of the apostate Church (spiritual Babylon of the 1st 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation). Those who build it are from the Synagogue of Satan.
As for getting saved by works... I don't see God changing away from grace in the Tribulation Period. God says He will seal His own during that time, therefore, He will protect them from getting the Mark. It is God who will be faithful to those in the Tribulation, and if He promised that they will not get the Mark, then He will see that through.

 

[The_highwayman]

No it will not. Today, the temple of God in the Church Age is the body of the born again believer:

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. - 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (King James Bible)




14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (King James Bible)



Those passages I just referenced show that today in the dispensation of the Grace of God, that the temple of God is the body of every true born again Christian.


But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there will be a physical temple that is located in Jerusalem.


And it is in that very temple where the antichrist will stand in:



3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (King James Bible)



Again, have a look for yourself at the layout and blueprint of the Temple that is being built right now and that preparations are being made for:



[video=youtube;vFnckQrgO7s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnckQrgO7s[/video]



And that is just a glimpse of what is going on, involving the preparation for the tribulation temple.







Again, there will be a physical temple in Jerusalem in the time of Jacob's trouble:



11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. - Revelation 11:1-6 (King James Bible)







People in the time of Jacob's trouble will be saved differently than the people of today. Today in the Church Age, salvation is by grace through faith without works (Eph. 2:8-10, Titus 3:4-6, Romans 4:4-5).



But in Daniel's 70th week (time of Jacob's trouble), salvation will be by faith AND works (Hebrews 3:6, James 2:14-26, Revelation 12:17; & 14:9-12)

Is Peter Ruckman still alive and kicking and still leading many astray like you? DO you all still hold the the 1611AV of the KJV and the ENGLISH translation is the only true Bible, DO you all still refuse to study the Bible in the hebrew and GreeK?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sorry EG. I made a generalization that is not true. I have actually made several unloving remarks during this thread, and I am sure that I have offended others. I went too far several times, and I hope you guys can overlook my attitude and forgive me.

its ok bro. Alot of people do not understand what we all believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No it will not. Today, the temple of God in the Church Age is the body of the born again believer:


16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. - 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (King James Bible)




14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (King James Bible)



Those passages I just referenced show that today in the dispensation of the Grace of God, that the temple of God is the body of every true born again Christian.

No argument between us or anyone here. we all believe this. so not sure why yuo keep arguing it.

But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there will be a physical temple that is located in Jerusalem.

And it is in that very temple where the antichrist will stand in:

Again, No argument.

People in the time of Jacob's trouble will be saved differently than the people of today. Today in the Church Age, salvation is by grace through faith without works (Eph. 2:8-10, Titus 3:4-6, Romans 4:4-5).



But in Daniel's 70th week (time of Jacob's trouble), salvation will be by faith AND works (Hebrews 3:6, James 2:14-26, Revelation 12:17; & 14:9-12)

1. Salvation has NEVER been by works.
2. Salvation has ALWAYS been by grace through faith. Abraham was saved by faith not works. Even David understood it was not by works, but by faith.
3. Your teaching a different gospel. which will lead many to hell. rejecting faith alone, and trying to add works to faith is a false gospel. Even the author of hebrews understood this. the work of sacrificing animals NEVER took away sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you are right in the result, but wrong in the spirit of it.
The Temple will be rebuilt. It will resemble the Holy Temple, but it will be an apostate temple of the apostate Church (spiritual Babylon of the 1st 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation). Those who build it are from the Synagogue of Satan.
As for getting saved by works... I don't see God changing away from grace in the Tribulation Period. God says He will seal His own during that time, therefore, He will protect them from getting the Mark. It is God who will be faithful to those in the Tribulation, and if He promised that they will not get the Mark, then He will see that through.

Agree with all. But who builds the temple. It will be Israel only, the spirit of babylon may be part of it, but is not the one who builds it. The spirit of babylon is all over the world. Not just in Israel

 

[LT]

Agree with all. But who builds the temple. It will be Israel only, the spirit of babylon may be part of it, but is not the one who builds it. The spirit of babylon is all over the world. Not just in Israel

I got part of that interpretation from a course I was in taught by Dr. Jimmy DeYoung. Very interesting course. I do not believe it firmly at all (as you know I doubt a 7-year Tribulation period, in favor of a longer time scale), but I did find Dr. DeYoung's work very literal, and very well thought through. (His book is called Revelation: A Chronology)

As for the 'spiritual Babylon', Jerusalem is going to be the center of it. Therefore Israel would rebuild the Temple, but it is inferred that they would be a false Israel.
The second half of the Tribulation, known as the Great Tribulation, the Antichrist will destroy the apostate church and Jerusalem, and move the headquarters to a rebuilt Babylon. It becomes 'economic Babylon' instead of 'spiritual Babylon'. Revelation 18:18,19

I agree that the 'spirit of Babylon' is global. I have made a distinction between the 'spirit of Babylon'(self-righteousness, lust, greed, pride) and 'spiritual Babylon'(the center of the Apostate Church).

 

[iamsoandso]

What you must realize is that in the Church Age, there is no distinctIon between Jew and Gentile in the body of Christ (Gal. 3:28-29).

The 144,000 Jewish servants and evangelists show up in the time of Jacob's trouble [Revelation 7:3-8 & 14:1-5 (Daniel's 70th week)], not the Church Age.

They are called the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And they are virgins (Rev. 14:4).

So because there will be a distinction between Jew and Gentile in the time of Jacob's trouble, it should indeed be pointed out that the 144,000 are sealed Jews from all the tribes of the children of Israel (Rev. 7:3).

Also keep in mind sir that Israel is not the church and that the church is not Israel. The Church has NOT replaced Israel.

hello chosenbyhim,how are you?

Galatians 3;28-29 i do fully agree with. i have followed your post and read through the different reasoning of you and the others and as to the certain definitions of who the 144,000,the church age ect. are. Paul as we know an apostle addresses the same issue in 1cor.chapter 15,,i"m compelled to follow his of who these are and when the "church age" as men refer to it might end.

in 1cor.15;20,,"Christ risen from the dead,become the first fruits of them that slept",,,,as we know that Christ is the first born of the dead. then in 1cor.15;23 we find that Paul set an order on this event,,he states,,,"but every man in his own order(1)Christ (2)the first fruits(3);afterward they that are Christ at his coming.,,,,compare rev.6;11 "and white robes were given to every one of them",,,and he answers their question by explaining that other of their brethren would be killed as they,and it was yet to be fulfilled. now this is the opening of the 5th seal.

the sealing of the servants/144,000 is at the opening of the sixth seal,,,and the brethren who are killed afterward for their testimony is not yet disclosed until rev.7;9 and rev.7;13-17(opening of the sixth seal) so the 144,000 and the remainder of those killed for the testimony of god are together in the sixth.

so there are those who are put to death,from Adam to the fifth seal and then in the sixth seal again those who are killed(die death),,,but in the explanation Paul gives in 1cor. 15;25 is that Christ must reign until he put all enemy's under his feet ,and that the last enemy to be destroyed is death,,,,15;26 and 15;54-58 ,,,,which is stated to be accomplished when rev.21;4 is fulfilled. until then there is the enemy and those who will die for their testimony and those who will face the second death,rev.21;8

so the church age will continue till this point. remember that even though mankind may choose to replace the church with another Israel that as Paul explains from the beginning of 1cor.15 to the end the carnal is as a seed planted. the same as a small seed as if dead in the flesh,,is returned to the dust of the ground. one is corruptible and in such is dead,,,the other is raised incorruptible.

 

[The_highwayman]

[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]No argument between us or anyone here. we all believe this. so not sure why yuo keep arguing it.




Again, No argument.



1. Salvation has NEVER been by works.
2. Salvation has ALWAYS been by grace through faith. Abraham was saved by faith not works. Even David understood it was not by works, but by faith.
3. Your teaching a different gospel. which will lead many to hell. rejecting faith alone, and trying to add works to faith is a false gospel. Even the author of hebrews understood this. the work of sacrificing animals NEVER took away sin.

You are correct salvation is not works based, but faith without works is dead.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I got part of that interpretation from a course I was in taught by Dr. Jimmy DeYoung. Very interesting course. I do not believe it firmly at all (as you know I doubt a 7-year Tribulation period, in favor of a longer time scale), but I did find Dr. DeYoung's work very literal, and very well thought through. (His book is called Revelation: A Chronology)

As for the 'spiritual Babylon', Jerusalem is going to be the center of it. Therefore Israel would rebuild the Temple, but it is inferred that they would be a false Israel.

This is where we disagree, I do not agree Jerusalem has anything to do with it. For it would infer that the beast rides on Jerusalem some how. Jerusalem neither had the power. or the worldwide support to do this. I think this is a misinterpretation of what Babylon is.

The second half of the Tribulation, known as the Great Tribulation, the Antichrist will destroy the apostate church and Jerusalem, and move the headquarters to a rebuilt Babylon. It becomes 'economic Babylon' instead of 'spiritual Babylon'. Revelation 18:18,19

I do not think he destroys jerusalem, Or the temple. I think he keeps his headquarters there. What a better way to be the "fake" messiah to the world, than to set up your headquarters in the religious capitol of the world.

When babylon is destroyed, it is destroyed, both the religious and economic. I think he does this by destroying the worlds economy and bringing it under a one world economy which can be controlled by the beast.

I agree that the 'spirit of Babylon' is global. I have made a distinction between the 'spirit of Babylon'(self-righteousness, lust, greed, pride) and 'spiritual Babylon'(the center of the Apostate Church).

I think babylon is both in one, that is why she has two names.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are correct salvation is not works based, but faith without works is dead.

True faith will have true works. A false faith will show no works.

It is not the works which saved, but the real or true faith.

 

[LT]

This is where we disagree, I do not agree Jerusalem has anything to do with it. For it would infer that the beast rides on Jerusalem some how. Jerusalem neither had the power. or the worldwide support to do this. I think this is a misinterpretation of what Babylon is.

I do not think he destroys jerusalem, Or the temple. I think he keeps his headquarters there. What a better way to be the "fake" messiah to the world, than to set up your headquarters in the religious capitol of the world.

When babylon is destroyed, it is destroyed, both the religious and economic. I think he does this by destroying the worlds economy and bringing it under a one world economy which can be controlled by the beast.

I think babylon is both in one, that is why she has two names.

That works.

 

[iamsoandso]

we read and imagine a temple of stone and wood descending down from Heaven when it is told us that our bodies are the temple of god. the lord is the lord of host so he dwells within the host,hence lord of host. now the head of the body is Christ,and the many members the church.

so what then is meant by the temple of god descending down from heaven into the earth among men? is it not the true temple,Christ in his second coming along with those resurrected in the first Resurrection and those remaining on the earth caught up?,,,,how do we perceive it a carnal temple constructed of the elements or the body of Christ we are told is the true temple?,,,,,you see some are in the temple and others who are outside the temple,,,,,,,,