New book I am reading. The King James only controversy

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Reformedjason

Guest
#1
I recommend this book to anyone interested in the bible version issue. It is informative. It is recommended by people like john macarthur and JI packer so you know it can be trusted.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
I've got it on my shelf. As well as His recent book on the quran.
 
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John_S

Guest
#3
I don't understand the fascination with reading, writing, and speaking 16th Century English.
NO other people in the world today read their Bible in an ancient language - NOT the Spanish, Germans, Italians, Russians, Chinese, or whomever.
ONLY English people have this idiotic notion that reading 16th Century English makes them "holier" than people who don't.

Our Father who IS in Heaven. HOLY be your name. YOUR Kingdom come. YOUR will be done. On Earth as it is in Heaven.

Let "thee", "thy", "thou", etc., die already.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#4
What people don't understand, and, sorry chosenforHim (and, the Lord leads, but don't argue with me anymore, I just end up shredding you :) ) , but , yeah, DIFFERENT VERSIONS of the bible speak DIFFERENTLY to different people.

I don't care how RIGHT more KJV is than another version IF I don't understand the confusin' 16th century Olde English. It's just Greek to me, then !!!!!!! :):(

What's worse? Reading a version that is CORRECTER than another version IF you don't understand what you READ, get discouraged, and, end up NOT reading any bible ?????!?!!!?!?!!!??!!?

READ a version of the bible that YOU understand, that makes sense, that comes ALIVE from Christ to YOU :)
 
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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
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#5
I don't understand the fascination with reading, writing, and speaking 16th Century English.
NO other people in the world today read their Bible in an ancient language - NOT the Spanish, Germans, Italians, Russians, Chinese, or whomever.
ONLY English people have this idiotic notion that reading 16th Century English makes them "holier" than people who don't.

Our Father who IS in Heaven. HOLY be your name. YOUR Kingdom come. YOUR will be done. On Earth as it is in Heaven.
Let "thee", "thy", "thou", etc., die already.[/
QUOTE]Hmmm I am sensing a bit of frustration, are you doing okay?
 
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GraceBeUntoYou

Guest
#6
Only problem with this is the KJV is not as accurate as most modern translations in either, translation or in mss utilized.
 
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Huckleberry

Guest
#7
I don't understand the fascination with reading, writing, and speaking 16th Century English.

Let "thee", "thy", "thou", etc., die already.
Thee, thy, thou, etc., had been out of common usage for several hundred years by 1611 (the 17th century).

The translators desired the most accurate translation possible, so the specific singular and plural pronouns for "you" had to be used. E.g., starts with a "th", it's singular, starts with a "y", it's plural. "Thou only", as opposed to, "all of ye".

They are not used in the AV dedicatory, which I have pasted below. The KJV is the most accurate, most correct, and most honest translation of the Holy Scriptures that we have in English.


TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE
JAMES
BY THE GRACE OF GOD
KING OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, AND IRELAND,
DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, &c.
The Translators of the Bible wish
Grace, Mercy, and Peace

through Jesus Christ our Lord.​
GREAT and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of England, when first he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well unto our Sion, that upon the setting of that bright Occidental Star, Queen Elizabeth of most happy memory, some thick and palpable clouds of darkness would so have overshadowed this Land, that men should have been in doubt which way they were to walk; and that it should hardly be known, who was to direct the unsettled State; the appearance of Your Majesty, as of the Sun in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the Government established in Your Highness, and Your hopeful Seed, by an undoubted Title, and this also accompanied with peace and tranquillity at home and abroad.

But among all our joys, there was no one that more filled our hearts than the blessed continuance of the preaching of God's sacred Word among us, which is that inestimable treasure which excelleth all the riches of earth; because the fruit thereof extendeth itself, not only to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men unto that eternal happiness which is above in heaven.

Then not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state, wherein the famous Predecessor of Your Highness did leave it; nay, to go forward with the confidence and resolution of a Man in maintaining the truth of Christ, and propagating it far and near, is that which hath so bound and firmly knit the hearts of all Your Majesty's loyal and religious people unto You, that Your very name is precious among them: their eye doth behold You with comfort, and they bless You in their hearts, as that sanctified Person, who, under God, is the immediate Author of their true happiness. And this their contentment doth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe, that the zeal of Your Majesty toward the house of God doth not slack or go backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting itself abroad in the farthest parts of Christendom, by writing in defence of the Truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that man of sin, as will not be healed,) and every day at home, by religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the Word preached, by cherishing the Teachers thereof, by caring for the Church, as a most tender and loving nursing Father.

There are infinite arguments of this right Christian and religious affection in Your Majesty; but none is more forcible to declare it to others than the vehement and perpetuated desire of accomplishing and publishing of this work, which now, with all humility, we present unto Your Majesty. For when Your Highness had once out of deep judgment apprehended how convenient it was, that, out of the Original Sacred Tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our own and other foreign languages, of many worthy men who went before us, there should be one more exact translation of the Holy Scriptures into the English Tongue; Your Majesty did never desist to urge and to excite those to whom it was commended, that the Work might be hastened, and that the business might be expedited in so decent a manner, as a matter of such importance might justly require.

And now at last, by the mercy of God, and the continuance of our labours, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby; we hold it our duty to offer it to Your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty, that since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of illmeaning and discontented persons, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is, whose allowance and acceptance of our labours shall more honour and encourage us, that all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make GOD's holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self-conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by the truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity, as before the Lord; and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty's grace and favour, which will ever give countenance to honest and christian endeavours against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

The Lord of heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days; that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great God, and the good of his Church, through Jesus Christ our Lord and only Saviour.
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
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#8
[/QUOTE]
I don't understand the fascination with reading, writing, and speaking 16th Century English.
That's a normal reaction to the cult of KJV-only.

NO other people in the world today read their Bible in an ancient language - NOT the Spanish, Germans, Italians, Russians, Chinese, or whomever.
The Greek Orthodox would disagree. :)

ONLY English people have this idiotic notion that reading 16th Century English makes them "holier" than people who don't.
Of course, that's the nature of cults.

Our Father who IS in Heaven. HOLY be your name. YOUR Kingdom come. YOUR will be done. On Earth as it is in Heaven.

Let "thee", "thy", "thou", etc., die already.
Well, there's something to be said for singular/plural identification.

Gen 3:1 ... he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (KJV PCE)

So the serpent was speaking to Eve, but the "Ye" tells us that the commandment from God was addressed to both of them, not Eve alone. The NKJV, for example, loses this information:

Gen 3:1 ... he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” (NKJV)

I think generally "ye" should be replaced by "all of you" (or "both of you" in Gen 3), not just "you". In any case, KJV-onlyism is a poor solution for that issue.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#9
The redeeming quality about 'thou' and 'ye' is you immediately know if it's 2nd person singular or plural unlike 'you' or 'you'.

Aww, arrrgh, Praus beat me to the punch. :(
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
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#10
TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE
JAMES
BY THE GRACE OF GOD
KING OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, AND IRELAND,
DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, &c.
The Translators of the Bible wish
Grace, Mercy, and Peace

through Jesus Christ our Lord.​
GREAT and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of the Church of England, when first he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us.
I fixed it for you! :)

we, as Christians, do certainly consider if James was busy persecuting Christians for their beliefs. It doesn't mean that we should or should not use the KJV, it means it's a good idea to be aware of the issue and let the Holy Spirit guide us.

For our non-American brethren, William Bradford was a signatory to the Mayflower Compact of 1620. This is about the Separatists (radical Puritans, not normal Puritans) versus James' Church of England.

http://www.pilgrimhallmuseum.org/pdf/Bradford_Passage_Religion.pdf

From the journal of William Bradford
Describing the Pilgrims’ Separatist religious beliefs:
"The one side [the Reformers] laboured to have ye right worship of God & discipline of Christ established in ye church, according to ye simplicitie of ye gospell, without the mixture of mens inventions, and to have & to be ruled by ye laws of Gods word, dispensed in those offices, & by those officers of Pastors, Teachers, & Elders, &c. according to ye Scripturs. The other partie [the Church of England], though under many colours & pretences, endevored to have ye episcopall dignitie (affter ye popish maner) with their large power & jurisdiction still retained; with all those courts, cannons, & ceremonies, togeather with all such livings, revenues, & subordinate officers, with other such means as formerly upheld their antichristian greatnes, and enabled them with lordly & tyranous power to persecute ye poore servants of God."
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
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#12
You didn't mention the actual name of the book and the author.

Please post, Jason! Many thanks!
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
#14
I recommend this book to anyone interested in the bible version issue. It is informative. It is recommended by people like john macarthur and JI packer so you know it can be trusted.

Hi there Jason, well if you are going to read James White's book, then you should at least also check out Peter Ruckman's book:



THE Scholarship Only Controversy

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Dec 21, 2012
2,982
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#15
Hi there Jason, well if you are going to read James White's book, then you should at least also check out Peter Ruckman's book:
The Apostle Paul warned us more than one about teachers like Peter Ruckman.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. (KJV PCE)

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (KJV PCE)

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all. (KJV PCE)

Therefore it should be evident that Peter S. Ruckman...

He simply believes that the Jews who are God's chosen people, are the superior people.
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#16
I have no desire to read ruckman's book , I would if it was given to me I guess. I have read that he believes that the king james is right even if it has no greek support for what the translators used. Like a second inspiration. I have to say that is nonsense.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#18
White is very good for apologetics. Good choice Jason. :)
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#20
Hi there Jason, well if you are going to read James White's book, then you should at least also check out Peter Ruckman's book:



THE Scholarship Only Controversy

View attachment 61006
You know. I was looking at the cover and it seems to be a spoof and attack of James Whites book. I would not read any slanderizing gibberish. If they have true points and can back up their claims, why do the ad hominun attack? Sounds like trash to me.