Prophecies Fulfilled In Modern Israel

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#41
when people who say they love the Lord Jesus Christ and at the same time come against the nation of Israel and the Jewish people (my brethren after the flesh), I get very upset.
come against?

you mean not approving everything and supporting it all...right?
money guns and horses? sons and daughters' blood?

carnal kingdom building?

of course, when the Antichrist shows up, you'll be gone in the fake rapture.

this kind of extremist zionism disguised as christianity is the most dangerous force on earth at this time, and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ The Lord.

ZERO.

it's ALL false doctrine. poison.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#42
Why is there no need for anything else?


Do you really believe that dispensational theology began in the 1830s with John Nelson Darby? All John Nelson Darby did was systematize Scriptures into dispensations. Dispensational theology didn't originate with him in the 1830s. It was only the method of literal interpretation of biblical prophecy which began with JND. The fallacy is that JND started a false doctrine called dispensationalism. Dispensational theology sees the distinction between Israel and the Church. If one does not make that distinction, the interpretation of biblical prophecy becomes confusing. When preterism teaches that all prophecies were fulfilled in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Roman armies of Titus, then people have to begin "spiritualizing" and "allegorizing" Scripture (especially prophetic Scriptures) to make their theology work into their scheme of things.
The sad view of the faith is to say that all prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD. That view of the faith totally eliminates Israel from the prophetic plan of God and basically calls God a liar. That, my friend, is why that last statement was made at the end of that article.

Yes there are Jews....I am one. God knows their genealogies. The Orthodox,Ultra Orthodox and Chasidic Jews are really the main sects of Jews who follow the Talmud and the Torah. It's called Rabbinic Judaism. They are the ones you usually see praying fervently by the Western Wall. All prophecy was not fulfilled in 70AD. Israel is back in their land in unbelief....Ezekiel's prophecy of the "dry bones" is being fulfilled now. (Ezekiel 37).

About the "obsession" with this topic being a waste of time and a topic which doesn't advance the Gospel...let me ask you this question: Do you believe it is a waste of time to share the Gospel with the Jewish people? Why does sharing the Gospel with the Jewish people not advance the Gospel?

I'm sorry you feel that way....but honestly, when people who say they love the Lord Jesus Christ and at the same time come against the nation of Israel and the Jewish people (my brethren after the flesh), I get very upset.

Was your very first statement "The promises will be fulfilled in the New Earth and New Jerusalem. There is no need for anything else." your assessment of that entire article?

If you desire for me to be more open with you, then you (and your friends) should act in like manner...instead of calling me, and several of my friends, heretics for believing in the literal interpretation of biblical prophecy, which is dispensational theology.
very skilled and highly developed apologist for the false and corrupt system of dispensationalism, imposed on the Biblical narrative, and is antichrist in that it denies the fulfilled promises in Jesus Christ alone, according to the prophets, for Israel first and the gentiles shortly afterward.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#43
This article was written by an Israeli brother in the Lord, Dr. Elisha Weismann and edited by his brother in law, Dr. James Ach, who is also an Israeli brother in the Lord. I will just post the first two paragraphs of the article....and for those who wish to read the complete article and comment, please follow the following link:

Prophecy/Current Events | dorightchristians

“Pastor” Steven Anderson created a video in which he explains that God did not cause Israel to be regathered as a nation in 1948, due to the nation’s continued rejection of Christ. Anderson is not alone in sharing this sentiment, the Aryan Nation, Ku Klux Klan and Catholic Church agree with him.

Apparently, Anderson is of the persuasion that the promise of God to bring Israel back into their land depends upon their acknowledgment of Christ as Messiah. Yet, if Israel is said to be blinded for the moment (Romans 11:26), then how would Israel as a nation be expected to corporately turn to Christ? Anderson is also opposed to dispensationalism, which is the death-knell of every amillennial, post millennial, preterist, historicist and covenant system of theology which fails to rightly divide the word of truth, and leads to blurring the distinctions between the church and Israel. (See our Article on Steven Anderson’s “After The Tribulation” and “Debunking Myths About Israel” for a refutation of common proof-texts used by these systems to claim that the church and Israel are the same.)

Israel has yet to fulfill the birthright promise to Ephraim in Genesis 48-49. The church inherited the spiritual blessings of faith through Abraham, but the church has nothing to do with the physical promises that are yet to be fulfilled in Israel. The spiritual blessings were fulfilled in the genealogy of Abraham through Judah to Christ (Genesis 49:10,Romans 9:1-7, Galatians 3:16), but the birthright was not reckoned after the genealogy (1 Chronicles 5:1-2). The failure of even the most sincere Bible students to get this throughout the Bible is partly responsible for the plethora of heresies and denominations that exist today.

But what we want to focus on in this article, since there is already so much material extant that clearly shows that Israel will be regathered, are many of the other prophecies concerning Israel that are ignored by Anderson and his ilk.
your source, Elisha Weismann claims (typically):

...

The Restoration of the Hebrew Language

Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent” Zephaniah 3:8-9

Since the ousting of the Jews from Jerusalem in AD 70 under Titus and the “Diaspora”, the Hebrew language had largely become obscure, and was only well-known to those who preserved and studied the Old Testament texts among scholars, linguists, and palaeographers. Within the last few centuries, Hebrew had been mixed with German (Yiddish) and Spanish (Ladino).

In 1858, Eliezer Ben Yahuda was born, who by age 12 had mastered several different languages including Russian, German, French and Hebrew. Ben Yahuda is largely responsible for the revival of the Hebrew language which in 1982, became the official language of Israel.

.....

...that Zephaniah 3 is saying Hebrew is the "pure language" in which men will call upon the name of the Lord.


Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

Romans 15
15But I have written very boldly to you on some points so as to remind you again, because of the grace that was given me from God, 16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17Therefore in Christ Jesus I have found reason for boasting in things pertaining to God

Romans 12:1
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#44
Neither. Those who were under the law were justified out of faith; those not under law are justified through faith.

God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised out of faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith. Romans 3:30​
Are you saying that it was their faith in God that justified the circumcised, and it is the uncircumcised's faith in Jesus that justifies them? I could potentially see that since they're both the same, but the Old Testament also pointed specifically to Christ. So anyone who studied it could understand that there was going to be a sacrifice that God made to justify us and that our righteousness came from him. But I don't think that what was being said was that their faith alone justified them. They had to have faith in something, whether that be God, the Torah or themselves. If they had faith in Baal that likely wouldn't have justified them. lol

Romans 3:30 (KJV) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Matthew 1:16 (KJV) And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

The word that is translated as by in one version of Romans 3:30 and out of in your version can have a number of meanings. The of in Matthew 1:16 is the same word as out of, which makes me think that out of should be taken as the direction of something and not the location of something. Otherwise you have Jesus being born outside of Mary instead of out of Mary. So I think the circumcised were justified out of faith and not outside of faith. The reason for their justification, in other words, came from faith.

Romans 3:30 (CJB) because, as you will admit, God is one. Therefore, he will consider righteous the circumcised on the ground of trusting and the uncircumcised through that same trusting.

Romans 3:30 (ASV) if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
 
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Dec 21, 2012
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#45
Pastor Steven Anderson created a video in which he explains that ...
Pastor Steven Anderson :) of the Faithful Word Baptist Church, Tempe, Arizona

link ->
Faithful Word Baptist Church - Phoenix, AZ

Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

"The Jews are Nothing Special in the New Testament" (2 min 22 sec)

[video=youtube;iiyxb79DcjQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiyxb79DcjQ[/video]
 
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BradC

Guest
#46
The order of events concerning the resurrections would be:

1- the resurrection of Christ (1Cor 15:23)
2- the resurrection of the church at the rapture (1Thes 4:16)
3- the resurrection of the tribulation saints (Rev 20:3-5) together with...
4- the old testament saints (Dan 12:2, Is 26:19) at the second coming of Christ to the earth
5- the final resurrection of the unsaved dead (Rev 20:5, 11-14) at the end of the 1,000 reign or millennial age

The first (4) stages would all be included in the first resurrection or resurrection to life, in as much all receive eternal life and the last stage would be the second resurrection or the resurrection unto damnation, in as much as all receive eternal judgment and condemnation at that time.
 
L

LT

Guest
#47
The order of events concerning the resurrections would be:

1- the resurrection of Christ (1Cor 15:23)
2- the resurrection of the church at the rapture (1Thes 4:16)
3- the resurrection of the tribulation saints (Rev 20:3-5) together with...
4- the old testament saints (Dan 12:2, Is 26:19) at the second coming of Christ to the earth
5- the final resurrection of the unsaved dead (Rev 20:5, 11-14) at the end of the 1,000 reign or millennial age

The first (4) stages would all be included in the first resurrection or resurrection to life, in as much all receive eternal life and the last stage would be the second resurrection or the resurrection unto damnation, in as much as all receive eternal judgment and condemnation at that time.
Why does Rev 20:5 say, "and this is the first Resurrection", if the first resurrection of the Church happened at the beginning of the Tribulation?
It seems clear to me that these events are one in the same, but I'd like to hear your take on this phrase.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#48
This article was written by an Israeli brother in the Lord, Dr. Elisha Weismann
link -> Premillennialism, Calvinism, and Romans 9-11 | hipandthigh

It’s a bizarro screed written by a “Dr.” Elisha Weismann. After a web search, I couldn’t find a “Dr.” Elisha Weismann existing anywhere outside the website where this article was posted. More than likely “Dr.” Weismann (if that is a real name) is a fake “Dr.” or one of those phony titles granted by a backslapping, IFB degree mill like Peter Ruckman’s Bible institute in Florida, and the guy (or gal?) is no more a real “Dr.” as Joel Taylor is a real “pastor/teacher.”
...
Moreover, does this “Dr.” even read outside the rarefied bubble of IFB tin-foil hat theology? Back in 2007, John MacArthur, who the “Dr.” names in his article, preached a blistering Shepherd Conference message defending Calvinism and premillennialism against an amillennial perspective. It so agitated non-premillennialists that entire Reformed blogs imploded upon themselves and books were written.
...
Additionally, is the “Dr.” even aware of such Calvinists as Horatius Bonar, J.C. Ryle, Robert Haldane, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Hodge, Cotton and Increase Mather, Robert Murray M’Cheyne, John Gill, Thomas Goodwin, Matthew Henry, and even John Calvin? Though a number were not premillennialists, they were “Calvinists” and yet affirmed the restoration of the Jews as a nation as Romans 9-11 teaches.

But of course, I am assuming that someone who genuinely has the title “Dr.” before his name would be aware of such things, but maybe my expectations are too much. I mean, even Gail Riplinger is called “Dr.”
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#49
This article was written by an Israeli brother in the Lord, Dr. Elisha Weismann and edited by his brother in law, Dr. James Ach, who is also an Israeli brother in the Lord. I will just post the first two paragraphs of the article....and for those who wish to read the complete article and comment, please follow the following link:
link -> Inside the Mind of a Conspiratorialist | Alpha and Omega Ministries

Inside the Mind of a Conspiratorialist / September 3, 2013 / James White

A few months ago I ran into one of the writers for the “Do Right Christians” blog, a “Dr. Ach.” I discovered, very, very quickly, that logical thought and honesty is not a high priority on this particular website, and immediately dropped the non-discussion. I thought the background looked familiar when I was directed to an article today by a “Dr. Elisha Weismann.” It surely seems that the Dividing Line has a lot of listeners who listen for some other reason than to learn, that’s for sure. In any case, I read through an article titled “James White Amillenialism, Ecumenism and Curious Habits.” It is one of the most laughable “throw everything including the kitchen sink and see if your followers will buy it” type of screeds I’ve run into in quite a while. Of course, this is a KJV Only site, and KJV Onlyism produces the most wide-eyed forms of vitriol and slander on the Internet, so we should not be overly surprised.
...
3) Then we come to a sub section titled “Other Issues We Have With White.” Oh goodie! :rolleyes: Now we start into the “let’s create all sorts of associations and not bother to establish meaningful links” conspiratorialist thinking that we are running into with Chris Pinto as well. It works like this: “Minnesota recently approved gay marriage. James White was born in Minnesota. Therefore James White approves gay marriage.” That kind of thinking (though, normally, there are as many as five steps to the argument!).
...
Now, the absurdity of such thinking is astounding. Not a single person at the Council of Nicea would have had a clue what the phrase “Roman Catholic Church” even meant, and it is sad that these non-Roman conspiratorialists are always willing to grant to Rome far, far more than history ever does. ... showing that the ESV and other Bibles are part of a Jesuit conspiracy.” Well there you go! Don’t worry about all those debates with Roman Catholic apologists! No, no, that was all a cover, you see! Unless you present KJV Onlyism, you are actually a Jesuit! See, there isn’t a fact on God’s green earth that can stop a conspiratorialist from reaching their goal.

And so we have a fascinating insight into the conspiratorialist KJV Only mindset, where the restraints that keep the rest of us from making wild, illogical and irrational connections are missing, and the result is a muddled mess of accusation and confusion.

About James White
James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. He is the author of more than twenty four books, a professor, an accomplished debater, and an elder of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#50
Don't need to...but you need to read and study Scripture, not what you have pre-supposed in your own mind.
Pastor Steven Anderson :) of the Faithful Word Baptist Church, Tempe, Arizona

link -> Faithful Word Baptist Church - Phoenix, AZ

Matt 8:11-12 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"The Jews will not inherit the Kingdom of God!" (6 min 58 sec)

[video=youtube;vwWxY0YVQkc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwWxY0YVQkc[/video]
 
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Linda70

Guest
#51
I personally know Dr. Elisha Weismann and Dr. James Ach...and I know James White's stand on the King James Bible and his attitude toward those who defend it. This thread is not about James White nor does it have to do with a King James Only debate. James White is also a 5-point hyper Calvinist which is also not the topic of this thread.

On the other hand, I am in total agreement with the fact that Pastor Steven Anderson is a false teacher and it is Dr. Elisha Weismann's and Dr. James Ach critique of Steven Anderson's teaching on Israel that is the topic of that particular blog article...which is also the topic of the OP.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#52
Israel that is the topic of that particular blog article...which is also the topic of the OP.
Israel: "We killed Jesus; we're proud of it!"

[video=youtube;gSAM3VF-Bl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSAM3VF-Bl8[/video]
 
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Linda70

Guest
#53
This thread is also NOT about stereotyping the lie that EVERY Israeli hates Christians. Not every Israeli hates Christians. Also, most Jews don't even understand who a true born again Christian is....that a true born again Christian (not just those who say they are Christians), loves the Jews and loves Israel. Why do many Israeli Jews feel the way they do (as your anti-semitic video stereotypes) about "professing" Christians? Could it be that those very "professing" Christians are totally insensitive to the persecutions of the Jewish people through the centuries? Could it be that "professing" Christians need to learn the history of Israel from a biblical perspective, and no just a sociopolitical perspective?

Until "Christians" learn about the history of Israel from a biblical perspective, the "stereotyping" of every "Israeli hating Christians" needs to stop. It's a very bad witness...and obviously not winning the lost to Christ (to the Jew first, and also to the Greek).
 
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BradC

Guest
#54
Israel: "We killed Jesus; we're proud of it!"

[video=youtube;gSAM3VF-Bl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSAM3VF-Bl8[/video]
Does that bother you Praus? Having those things in his heart bothers you? Why should that bother you? It just makes the need for mercy that much greater. God has to put mercy in your heart to be like your Father in heaven, the father of all mercies. He has concluded ALL in unbelief that he might have mercy on ALL. Christ was wounded for their transgressions and bruised for their iniquities.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#55
Why do many Israeli Jews feel the way they do (as your anti-semitic video stereotypes) about "professing" Christians?
Well tell us!

Could it be that those very "professing" Christians are totally insensitive to the persecutions of the Jewish people through the centuries?

Answering your own question with another question...

Could it be that "professing" Christians need to learn the history of Israel from a biblical perspective, and no just a sociopolitical perspective?
Answering your own question with another question...are you scared to answer your own question?

2 Tim 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; ...
 
L

LT

Guest
#56
Why should every Christian be blind to the possibility that these are not real Jews? I will preach the Gospel to Israel, but why should I help the anti-christ rebuild the Apostate Church that is prophesied about in Revelation?!
You all know that the if you are giving money to rebuild the Temple, it will not be a holy Temple, but the "spiritual Babylon" of the first 1/2 of the 70th week.
God has already told us that He alone has the genealogies, and that He will show us those who are frauds and those who are true. Either way, all the Jews today are going to hell if they don't accept Christ. Why do Dipsys support this apostasy?

Linda, tell me where I am wrong.
I am not "anti-Semitic" as you want to view anyone who disagrees. I have supported 3 missions trips to Israel. My problem is when people start acting like the Israeli government can do no wrong, or that Israelis can go to heaven if they follow the Torah, or giving money to "rebuild Israel" without it being an evangelistic mission.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#57
Does that bother you Praus? Having those things in his heart bothers you? Why should that bother you? It just makes the need for mercy that much greater. God has to put mercy in your heart to be like your Father in heaven, the father of all mercies. He has concluded ALL in unbelief that he might have mercy on ALL. Christ was wounded for their transgressions and bruised for their iniquities.
It doesn't bother me except for the foreign aid part--divest now and support your local Jew instead. Clearly Jewish Family Services of Los Angeles (God put lots of mercy in their hearts) could do much better things with my money than these Israelis.
 
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LT

Guest
#58
If I could delete my last post I would... I went too far. I'm sorry. I guess that video upset me a bit.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#59
the nation of Israel and the Jewish people (my brethren after the flesh)
"After the flesh?"

link -> Age of child prostitutes in Israel dropping, report finds - National Israel News | Haaretz

Age of child prostitutes in Israel dropping, report finds

Knesset study cites cases of 11-year-olds used for commercial sex that are among the several thousands of teenagers involved in prostitution.

Neither government agencies nor welfare organizations have accurate information regarding the scope of youth prostitution in Israel according to a report on prostitution involving minors, submitted recently to the Knesset.

The Elem association for youth in distress believes that there are thousands of teenagers involved in prostitution here, yet from 2008 until July 2013, only 29 police files were opened against the clients of these young prostitutes, 12 of them during the first half of this year. Of the 12 cases opened this year, 10 have been transferred to the prosecution and two are still being investigated. Of the other 17 files, 12 were transferred to the prosecution; of those, one case from 2009 was prosecuted and four other investigations were closed, three for lack of evidence.

The report, written by the Knesset Research and Information Center and submitted to the Knesset subcommittee on the fight against trafficking in women and prostitution, states that child prostitutes come from all sectors of society – there are Jews and Arabs, religious and secular, new immigrants and minors who have no legal status in Israel, such as Palestinians and migrants. The report also supports the general assumption that the age at which children start working as prostitutes is dropping; research here and abroad shows that the average age is 13-14, though there have been cases of children as young as 11 being used for commercial sex.

Professionals generally agree that youth prostitution is closely linked to sexual abuse at home, parental neglect, problems in school, low socioeconomic status, gang membership and living in the streets with no safe shelter. However, the report’s authors also say that a new pattern of occasional prostitution is emerging among young people from normative families who have not dropped out of school. These youngsters are lured into sexual exploitation because they want money for brand-name clothes and other consumer products, or to improve their social status.

The report stresses that the Internet has become one of the primary arenas for commercial sexual exploitation of minors.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#60
it is Dr. Elisha Weismann's and Dr. James Ach critique of Steven Anderson's teaching on Israel that is the topic of that particular blog article...which is also the topic of the OP.
pick a crackpot KKK guy (if that is what he is); make a thread and use it to defend antichrist persons and doctrines.
NO SALE