King James vs niv

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Tintin

Guest
#81
Kerry, grow up. You're older than most of us here but you're acting like a toddler. The NIV and other modern translations are necessary because the KJV is not understandable for the common person (which God's Word was designed to be). The KJV even used language that was archaic in its day. Why adhere to a translation most can't understand? I'll give you the reason - spiritual pride - the KJV is your god.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#82
Really which ones that were not Latin, oh maybe the German one that was based on Latin.
Several Bibles were based on the Textus Receptus, not the Latin, including the Great Bible, the Geneva Bible, the Bishop's Bible, Tyndale's Bible, the KJV, etc.

get a grip he was King and had heads at his hand
kerry, have you ever heard of the Magna Carta of 1215?

why would he translate the bible oh I know to thwart the power of the catholic church, but oh no the Holy Spirit could not be behind that.
I would think not since the Separatist Pilgrims arrived in Cape Cod, Massachusetts in 1620, they didn't want to be anywhere near King James or the Church of England.

who was behind the NIV, investors. or are you one of the idiots. hate to blunt but I call it like I see it.
I guess I'm an idiot then.

A fool and his money will soon be parted that's the King James talking.
Scripture reference? From the King James please.

 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,669
6,860
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#83
Kerry, grow up. You're older than most of us here but you're acting like a toddler. The NIV and other modern translations are necessary because the KJV is not understandable for the common person (which God's Word was designed to be). The KJV even used language that was archaic in its day. Why adhere to a translation most can't understand? I'll give you the reason - spiritual pride - the KJV is your god.
Agreed............and, if one really thinks about it........to suggest that God is UNABLE to assure His Word is not what He wills it to be......in the KJV, NIV, or the other accepted Translations is to LESSEN GOD. Is it not?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,669
6,860
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#84
I was going to bed, but I had to come back and say this. As smart as we have become I mean smarter than man at any other time. Why do we not have a translation that shows each and every verse as it pertains to the hebrew and the greek. Certainly we are smart enough to do that or are our we. Is there any profit in that. I mean we have puters now that can do stuff. Guess there is no profit in it.
You have a 'puter, and the apparent desire...........so why not get started? Sounds like a great idea........Get going!
 
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Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
#85
Several Bibles were based on the Textus Receptus, not the Latin, including the Great Bible, the Geneva Bible, the Bishop's Bible, Tyndale's Bible, the KJV, etc.
So why aren't any modern versions based on the Textus Receptus? Or are there some?
 

Photoss

Senior Member
Sep 15, 2012
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#86
Though they are different, as of late the TR has been rolled in with the Byzantine Majority Text, and not used as much as it once was. But it's utilised in Bibles such as the World English Bible, the Orthodox Study Bible, Young's Literal translation, KJV2000, and the NKJV (of course).
 
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GraceBeUntoYou

Guest
#87
Kerry said:
Wow dawg your smart. I bow down to you. But, you are so smart that you have not referenced the NiV. I am just an old boy. But I know the difference. The dead sea scrolls line up with the KJ or have you had time to the research. I thank the NIV because uneducated people have the gospel. But if you want the real word we must go back to the hebrew and greek. That is what the translators did under King James. Yes they made a few errors. but it was ordained by the Holy Spirit and not for profit as your New Idiot Version was. Dawg
This is the statement of an illiterate. If one is going to argue for the accuracy of the KJV, because it is reflective of the Dead Sea Scrolls, then not only does this have no bearing on the NT (since the DSS are OT documents), but what about other English translations that use the same base text in translation of the OT as does the KJV? Are these translations also reliable? I think the answer is apparent.
 
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Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
#88
Though they are different, as of late the TR has been rolled in with the Byzantine Majority Text, and not used as much as it once was. But it's utilised in Bibles such as the World English Bible, the Orthodox Study Bible, Young's Literal translation, KJV2000, and the NKJV (of course).
Really? Because I read that the NKJV wasn't based on the same codexes as the KJV. I actually read that the NKJV was based on the same documents as all the other new versions, which include the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.
 
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GraceBeUntoYou

Guest
#89
I was going to bed, but I had to come back and say this. As smart as we have become I mean smarter than man at any other time. Why do we not have a translation that shows each and every verse as it pertains to the hebrew and the greek. Certainly we are smart enough to do that or are our we. Is there any profit in that. I mean we have puters now that can do stuff. Guess there is no profit in it.
I'm hoping I misunderstood you, but just in case I didn't... where have you been for the past 2,000+ years? They're called interlinears, and people have been doing this since ancient times. There are Latin-Greek interlinears (in fact the Western mss, Codex Beza has Latin on one side of the parchment, with Greek on the reverse), there are English-Greek interlinears, and yes, even Hebrew-Greek interlinears. So unless I'm misunderstanding you then you have about 2,000 years of catching up to do.
 

Photoss

Senior Member
Sep 15, 2012
213
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#90
Really? Because I read that the NKJV wasn't based on the same codexes as the KJV. I actually read that the NKJV was based on the same documents as all the other new versions, which include the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.
Here's from the Wiki page, New King James Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The New King James Version also uses the Textus Receptus ("Received Text") for the New Testament, just as the original King James Version had used. As explained in the preface, notes in the center column acknowledge variations from Novum Testamentum Graece (designated NU after Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies) [the critical text] and the Majority Text (designated M)."

So essentially, the Critical Text (which has the codices you mentioned) was a tertiary source, used mainly for alternate readings mentioned in the margins.
 
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GraceBeUntoYou

Guest
#91
Really? Because I read that the NKJV wasn't based on the same codexes as the KJV. I actually read that the NKJV was based on the same documents as all the other new versions, which include the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.
No, this is a complete fabrication. The NKJV, as indicated previously, is based off the TR, though, it does at times consult the Majority Text. This is why the NKJV resembles the KJV at passages like 1 John 5.7, 1 Timothy 3.16, John 1.18.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#92
Huh?? What are you talking about??

You may want schedule a check up soon, and see if that brain of yours is still functioning properly.
That's exactly Peter Ruckman wrote--I have to believe in UFOs or else I'm "MENTALLY SICK". :rolleyes:

Ruckman and UFOs

Ruckman concludes his “summary of evidence” with these words
:
“If a twentieth-century college educated American does not believe in UFOs (and UFO occupants) he is MENTALLY SICK. He should see a shrink” (Ruckman, Black Is Beautiful, p. 343, emphasis in original).​
 
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Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
#93
No, this is a complete fabrication. The NKJV, as indicated previously, is based off the TR, though, it does at times consult the Majority Text. This is why the NKJV resembles the KJV at passages like 1 John 5.7, 1 Timothy 3.16, John 1.18.
Thanks. Do you have a good site where I can read about this? I have read a little, but it's hard to know what is true. I don't trust the Westcott and Hort guys (from what I read, they were secret Jesuits, or at least non-Christians), so would prefer not to use the Sinaiticus or Vaticanus texts.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
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#94
I have about 13 Bibles sitting on my shelf, not including my Iphone versions. I have read all of them, except not completely the Spanish and Hebrew and honestly, not the Old Testament in KJV.

I also have an older German version which really is just too hard for my basic German. But I am on my second read through of my French version. Strangely, there are differences in these Bibles between basic English Bibles. But nothing that affects doctrine.

I have read a NASB through so many times the back broke and the pages got thin. I read the NIV about 3 times and decided I didn't like it. Holman's is good, but a little bit too dynamic equivalent for me. I also got saved reading a Catholic Bible the New American Bible. Even before I got saved, I ignored some of the footnotes, because I knew Mary was not ever virgin! Amazing how I got saved while reading a Catholic Bible, and reciting the verses I learned in KJV from back when I was a child in the early 60's.

When I found ESV, I found it closest to the original languages. I appreciate that even though Crossway is complementarian, they are honest about the plurals of masculine words including women, although they do sometimes work at presenting their own viewpoint. Mind you, I am talking about the study version. I like the maps, and the history included in the better study versions.

Sorry, I guess I just made another thread about KJV a bit longer, and bumped it up to the top. I figure once you have read more than 10 versions, you have the right to comment a bit. God works through his Word, not limited to one Bible from the 16th century, or whenever the KJV edition was published.

Personally, I agree with Blain in the OP. God can speak through his word no matter what the translation, or original language. He is that BIG a God!!

Sorry for those who trap God in one English version of the Bible.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#95
Kerry, grow up. You're older than most of us here but you're acting like a toddler. The NIV and other modern translations are necessary because the KJV is not understandable for the common person (which God's Word was designed to be). The KJV even used language that was archaic in its day. Why adhere to a translation most can't understand? I'll give you the reason - spiritual pride - the KJV is your god.
Then why hasn't Shakspeare been updated, yet it is a collegiate text is is it not, ah because it would take away from the ambiance and the poetry and romance of the old english, would it not. At least we don't have to learn Latin to read the bible. Just saying be careful. these writers do not have your interest at heart, just your dollar and nothing else. Sorry thats the way it is. like it or not. So read the new idiot version while the investors laugh their way to the bank.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#96
Here we go

Romeo oh Romeo wherefore art though Romeo. Or

Hey Romeo where your bald head is, you no this trash got to go, so get in here for I put 5 cross your lip, thinking you some romeo. If you was romeo then where my Rolls royce. I knew mama was right old, bald head pig farmer.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#97
Hey Josiah was cleaning the temple and they found a book and old book and when it was read, they were very distraught and proceeded to what was written in the book. There was no concern of updating it. If you can read Shakespeare you can read the KJ. Why change it. I am older than most, but my teenage children have no problem with it. Have become that stupid, Well we did elect Obama twice. so maybe we are. But now a day and time when college grads are a dome a dozen, it makes no sense. Unless these so called colleges are just handing out degrees, if you have the money. When I was in High school you had to be in the top 10% to go to college. But, now they take anybody that can get a loan.
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
48
#98
Here we go

Romeo oh Romeo wherefore art though Romeo. Or

Hey Romeo where your bald head is, you no this trash got to go, so get in here for I put 5 cross your lip, thinking you some romeo. If you was romeo then where my Rolls royce. I knew mama was right old, bald head pig farmer.
Oh for goodness sake. If we were to ignore the fact that Shakespeare is in fact written in Modern English, and is in many respects already the same as what we read today,

if were were to ignore the fact that large portions of Shakespeare of which were written with particular cadences and poetic meter in mind, the removal of which directly impacts on the literary value of the text,

and also to ignore that Shakespeare is theatre, while the Bible is about saving souls (out of curiosity, you have read the entirety of the Shakespearean canon, yes? If not, why not?),

and ignoring the fact that the Shakespeare you would have read in school would have been altered (albeit in minor ways, i.e punctuation for readability) when compared to the originals,

and ignoring the fact that KJV translators deliberately used more archaic forms (particularly thou in deference to Tyndale's earlier work - Shakespeare, a contemporary of the KJV period, uses thou and the increasingly common and more polite form, you), even though many of those forms were dying out by the end 17th century,

even if I ignore the facile analogy you propose (no one is at all proposing we should insert Rolls Royces into the biblical text!),

it is still an incredible straw man, and also has a deep logical impact on your argument.

If we were to follow your logic to its sensible conclusion, because we MUST and SHOULD study Shakespeare only in the specific language and terms in which he wrote his plays and poetry, we therefore MUST and SHOULD only read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Luther, Wycliffe, Cranmer, Tyndale, not to mention King James, would all be rolling in their graves at the thought. I sure hope you know the difference between aorist and perfect tenses.

And at the risk of repeating myself, so it is clear to everyone else reading...

Just saying be careful. these writers do not have your interest at heart, just your dollar and nothing else. Sorry thats the way it is. like it or not. So read the new idiot version while the investors laugh their way to the bank.


Kerry, you have repeatedly stated this, but a) have not offered any proof for the assertion that the people who worked on the NIV translation are all money grubbing satanists and b) you have not offered any proof that this has impacted on the translation (i.e. that the NIV is demonstrably inferior to the KJV in terms of an understanble and sufficient rendering of the text). Your assertions are merely that, unless you actually want to prove what you have rather roughly alleged.

Plenty of people have already offered various textual arguments in support of why, purely at the MSS critical level, the NIV has some points over the KJV. I suggest you refer to them, and offer a reasoned argument as to why they should be considered wrong, if you can.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#99
Oh for goodness sake. If we were to ignore the fact that Shakespeare is in fact written in Modern English, and is in many respects already the same as what we read today,

if were were to ignore the fact that large portions of Shakespeare of which were written with particular cadences and poetic meter in mind, the removal of which directly impacts on the literary value of the text,

and also to ignore that Shakespeare is theatre, while the Bible is about saving souls (out of curiosity, you have read the entirety of the Shakespearean canon, yes? If not, why not?),

and ignoring the fact that the Shakespeare you would have read in school would have been altered (albeit in minor ways, i.e punctuation for readability) when compared to the originals,

and ignoring the fact that KJV translators deliberately used more archaic forms (particularly thou in deference to Tyndale's earlier work - Shakespeare, a contemporary of the KJV period, uses thou and the increasingly common and more polite form, you), even though many of those forms were dying out by the end 17th century,

even if I ignore the facile analogy you propose (no one is at all proposing we should insert Rolls Royces into the biblical text!),

it is still an incredible straw man, and also has a deep logical impact on your argument.

If we were to follow your logic to its sensible conclusion, because we MUST and SHOULD study Shakespeare only in the specific language and terms in which he wrote his plays and poetry, we therefore MUST and SHOULD only read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Luther, Wycliffe, Cranmer, Tyndale, not to mention King James, would all be rolling in their graves at the thought. I sure hope you know the difference between aorist and perfect tenses.

And at the risk of repeating myself, so it is clear to everyone else reading...



Kerry, you have repeatedly stated this, but a) have not offered any proof for the assertion that the people who worked on the NIV translation are all money grubbing satanists and b) you have not offered any proof that this has impacted on the translation (i.e. that the NIV is demonstrably inferior to the KJV in terms of an understanble and sufficient rendering of the text). Your assertions are merely that, unless you actually want to prove what you have rather roughly alleged.

Plenty of people have already offered various textual arguments in support of why, purely at the MSS critical level, the NIV has some points over the KJV. I suggest you refer to them, and offer a reasoned argument as to why they should be considered wrong, if you can.
So you can read Shakespeare, but need modern english to read the bible. What does that say about you? What is so vain about the KJ that you need to pad the the pockets of the investors of the New idiots version to understand Gods word?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
No, this is a complete fabrication. The NKJV, as indicated previously, is based off the TR, though, it does at times consult the Majority Text. This is why the NKJV resembles the KJV at passages like 1 John 5.7, 1 Timothy 3.16, John 1.18.
So why don't you read all them translations you boasted about. Why do you need the New Idiot Translation?