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L

letti

Guest
I'm not sure if you read all the posts on this thread (there's a lot of rubbish from the spammer, empty words from the couple of die-hard Dispensationalists), but I thought Zone did a good job of exposing the evils of Dispensationalism. It gets a bit tricky, as supporters of the doctrine tend to be as slippery as eels, but I think she didn't leave much room for them to slither.
Zone,does do a good job, I find she stays in truth.But,we got some that need IDK,I guess come to think of it, some people well they apparently don't want to get it.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

true or false?
 
L

letti

Guest
Romans 10
11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

true or false?
TRUE,that is without doubt true.
 
M

Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
Zone,does do a good job, I find she stays in truth.But,we got some that need IDK,I guess come to think of it, some people well they apparently don't want to get it.
Exactly. They don't care what the truth is, they want the scriptures to fit their beliefs. For whatever reason... Too hard to change, don't want to be unpopular, don't want to be called an "anti-semitist", etc.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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.....we got some that need IDK,I guess come to think of it, some people well they apparently don't want to get it.
there's a lot at stake.
if you have years, and untold numbers of people you have taught this to dogmatically - what's required?
what's the cost of repentance?
how hard is it going to be to stand before those people at your church and say you were wrong?
too hard apparently.


Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Romans 3:29
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

Romans 3:30
since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
 
L

letti

Guest
This kind of reminds me of Plainword, and his rapture threads LOL, sorry.
 
L

letti

Guest
there's a lot at stake.
if you have years, and untold numbers of people you have taught this to dogmatically - what's required?
what's the cost of repentance?
how hard is it going to be to stand before those people at your church and say you were wrong?
too hard apparently.


Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Romans 3:29
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

Romans 3:30
since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
This,is what I have always known as the truth,but I do understand the stakes you mentioned.I't is sadly, a error many will not own up to making,but if they did correct themselves, God would honor that instead of keeping the Lies.All,I can say is, shame on those who preach falsely, and lead there flocks astray.God says WOE to them.But blessed be the righteous,who preach the truth.Thank God we have those devoted to the truth,and stand for it!
 
A

Abiding

Guest
Exactly. They don't care what the truth is, they want the scriptures to fit their beliefs. For whatever reason... Too hard to change, dont want to be unpopular, don't want to be called an "anti-semitist", etc.
........................
 
L

Linda70

Guest
Well,then see it as you will,I see it for what it is, and I won't be swayed.:)
You have already been deceived...therefore you look at the Bible through the eyes of what all the "reformed theologians" are teaching you instead of studying the Bible for yourself. So remain brainwashed.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Christianity does not teach Dual Covenant Theology........

You have already been deceived...therefore you look at the Bible through the eyes of what all the "reformed theologians" are teaching you instead of studying the Bible for yourself. So remain brainwashed.
Linda could you please address this (from your source, though the source doesn't matter) - could you address the distinction(s) and tell me how this is not Dual Covenant theology?

please reconcile that with your source:

Vital Distinctions Between Israel and the Church

Dispensationalists are distinguished from non-Dispensationalists in that they recognize clear Biblical distinctions between Israel and the Church. The following distinctions, illustrated in chart form, are based on the clear teachings of the Scriptures when interpreted in their plain, normal, literal sense.

For example, non-Dispensationalists are horrified at the thought that animal sacrifices will be observed in the future Messianic kingdom, but this is what the Old Testament prophets predicted.

....

The hope and expectancy of Israel was earthly, centering in the establishment of the Kingdom of the Messiah foretold by the prophets (Jer. 23:5-8; Isa. 2:1-5; 11:1-16).

The hope and expectancy of the Church is heavenly, centering in the glorious appearing of Christ to take His people to heaven (John 14:1-3; Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 3:1-4; 1 Thess. 4:13-18).

...

Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 70 weeks or 490 years) involved animal sacrifices. These years will include the tribulation. Israel’s millennial history will involve the same (Ezek. 43:27).

The Church’s history does not involve animal sacrifices. Messiah’s sacrifice is commemorated by means of the Lord’s Table.

...

Israel’s history which is in view in Daniel 9:24 (the 490 years) involves a priesthood limited to the sons of Aaron, and excluding most Israelites. The same applies to the Millennium when Zadokian priests (also sons of Aaron) will serve in the temple (Ezek. 40:46; 43:19; 44:15).

During the Church age every true believer is a priest and able to offer spiritual sacrifices to the Lord (Heb. 13:15; 1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:6). Whereas Israel had a priesthood, the Church is a priesthood.

...

Israel was to observe the Sabbath Day (Exodus 20:8). Sabbath observance will also take place in the Tribulation (Matt. 24:20) and in the Millennium (Ezek. 46:1,3).

The Church is to be diligent and make every effort to enter into God’s rest (Heb. 4:9-11). This is a daily duty.

...

Believing Jews prior to Pentecost, believing Jews during the tribulation, and believing Jews during the Kingdom reign of Christ are not members of the body of Christ.

Comparison & Contrast Between Israel and the Church
thanks. i'll watch for your explanation.
 
Jan 21, 2013
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Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

true or false?
Its True. But its not talking about ethnic jews.
 
L

letti

Guest
You have already been deceived...therefore you look at the Bible through the eyes of what all the "reformed theologians" are teaching you instead of studying the Bible for yourself. So remain brainwashed.
Yep,Thank you.Well I guess,:) I am happy to be brainwashed then.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Its True. But its not talking about ethnic jews.
what? jew & gentile.

both the Israel of God, no distinction. one tree, one flock.

no distinction between unbelievers either < One Lord, One Name, One Covenant, One Second Coming, One Judgment Day.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Its True. But its not talking about ethnic jews.
Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

the gospel went virtually to them alone - first....just as promised.
i don't know what you're talking about.

Israelites.
i don't know why we have to keep playing the shell game with 'Israel/Jews' etc.
those who believe(d) stay in the Covenant (Promise / Tree)...those who don't were (are) cut off.

gentiles who believe are grafted into the Covenant Promise Tree - the Israel of God - CHRIST's.

Matthew 2:2
and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him."

John 1
Jesus Calls Philip and Nathanael
48Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you." 49Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel." 50Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these."
 
A

Abiding

Guest
??
Romans 2:28-29

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 9:6-8



6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh,these are NOT the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
.................


where are the promises for ethnic jews who dont believe the gospel?
 
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B

BradC

Guest
.................


where are the promises for ethnic jews who dont believe the gospel?
The promises were given before they were believed upon. Those (ethnic Jews) who believed, received the promises, and those who have not believed, still have the promises available to them, because the promises have not gone anywhere, but are placed on the shelf of mercy that can be reached by faith, marked, 'YEA & AMEN! The promises are even available into the second coming. Is that amazing or what? Still hope for those ethnic Jews after all, especially when they shall all see him and recognize him as the one they pierced, crucified and had his blood shed on that tree over 2,000 years ago.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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63
.................

Romans 9:6-8


6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh,these are NOT the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

where are the promises for ethnic jews who dont believe the gospel?
ALL ISRAEL must be saved (not really ALL, just kind of all...later type thing)
so we have to invent a separate dispensation for the unbelieving ethnic israelites...and over-ride what Paul said (twice)

after you do it once, well....

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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The promises were given before they were believed upon. Those (ethnic Jews) who believed, received the promises, and those who have not believed, still have the promises available to them, because the promises have not gone anywhere, but are placed on the shelf of mercy that can be reached by faith, marked, 'YEA & AMEN! The promises are even available into the second coming. Is that amazing or what? Still hope for those ethnic Jews after all, especially when they shall all see him and recognize him as the one they pierced, crucified and had his blood shed on that tree over 2,000 years ago.
what have you done with BradC?

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation
.....BradC
 
J

jahsoul

Guest
You have already been deceived...therefore you look at the Bible through the eyes of what all the "reformed theologians" are teaching you instead of studying the Bible for yourself. So remain brainwashed.
*knowing that I'm still on ignore but responding anyway*

I gave you scripture and ignored it and called me anti semetic. Sadly, we aren't the ones who are sounding brainwashed on this topic.