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[Linda70]

The Church Age was a mystery according to the New Testament:

The Church, as the Body of Christ, composed of saved Jews and Gentiles of this age was a "mystery"....a truth which God hid from men in Old Testament times, but which He has revealed in the New Testament.

The Old Testament does not mention anything about the founding of the New Testament Church by Christ, the component members of New Testament churches (Ephesians 3:3-9), or the special relationship Christ has with His churches (Ephesians 5:23-32; Revelation 1:12-13,20).

The Old Testament describes man's creation and fall and contains the record of God's preparations for and prophecies of the first and Second coming of the Savior, Jesus Christ. Also included are the prophecies of a coming tribulation period for the nation of Israel, which does not include the Church.

It can be divided into the following categories:

From Genesis to Deuteronomy: Creation of heaven and earth and man; the beginnings of the Jewish nation; the Law of God (including the 10 Commandments)

From Joshua to Esther: The history of Israel, the Jewish nation

From Job to the Song of Solomon: The Poetic books, dealing with profound questions of life and the worship of God

From Isaiah to Malachi: Prophecies concerning Israel and mankind as a whole and of Jesus Christ.

There is nothing in the Old Testament about the Church or the Church age.
****************************************************************
The New Testament contains the accounts of Christ's birth, life, death, resurrection, return to Heaven, and the teachings of Christ's followers, the epistles to the various churches, as well as prophecies of the future.

It can be divided as follows:

From Matthew to John: The four Gospels giving the Birth, Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ

Acts of the Apostles: The history of the establishment and spread of the churches

From Romans to Philemon: Paul's Epistles, written to instruct various churches

From Hebrews to Jude: Called the "general epistles," these were written for Christians in general

Revelation: Prophecy about the end of the world

O.T. - Promise / N.T. - Fulfillment

O.T. - Types / N.T. - Reality

O.T. - Preparation / N.T. - Presentation

O.T. - The Foundation / N.T. - The Building

 

[jahsoul]

It's not a stretch at all. The context determines whether Daniel meant "weeks" or "years".
Daniel was writing to Jews.

The period between the 69th and 70th week is the church age. The church age was unknown in the OT...it was a "mystery" (which is something hidden in the OT and revealed in the NT). When the church ends at the rapture (which was also a unknown to Daniel, as was the Church age), the 70th week of Daniel will begin. This will be the 7 year Tribulation period. What would be the purpose in revealing the "church age" to Israel? They were looking for the coming Messiah/Redeemer and the "restored" Messianic kingdom...which is totally distinct from the Church. God revealed to Daniel only what He wanted Daniel to know....and that didn't include the Church age. I'm not sure what you mean by "everything else"?

Get out your Bible and use it as you read this article:

"The Redemption and the Reclamation"

That might be the disconnect with me; I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. Another thing, if this church age wasn't revealed, why did God include it in the 70 weeks? Why wouldn't God just speak of a separate mystery that would be found later instead of throwing off the whole week system that seems to work fine for the first 68 and 70th week? One more thing; if the church age wasn't to be revealed to Israel, why did the early church consist of a lot of Israelites (Judeans)?

 

[jahsoul]

Genesis - Deutoronomy - Creation, Fall, Flood, Hebrew Patriarchs, the beginning of the Children of Israel, Hebrews in captivity,
From Joshua to Chronicles: The history of Israel, from judges, Children of Israel wanting a king, United Kingdom of Israel under David and Solomon, split kingdom, up until the destruction of both Israel and Judah.
Nehemiah/Ezra - Leave Babylon to rebuild temple
Esther - Exile
From Job to the Song of Solomon: The Poetic books, dealing with profound questions of life and the worship of God
Prophets - Pre and post exile prophecies concerning the Children of Israel, Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, Jerusalem, and Christ
1 & 2 Maccabees - the Jewish nation

This is how I always saw it...*shrugs*

 

[Linda70]

That might be the disconnect with me; I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture.

That's too bad. Not too many folks "loving His appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8). I suppose you're not interested in the imminent return of Christ for His Bride.

Another thing, if this church age wasn't revealed, why did God include it in the 70 weeks?

The 70 weeks did not include the church:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

"thy people" is the Jews (Israelites) and "thy holy city" is Jerusalem (in Israel). The Seventy Weeks of Daniel have nothing to do with the Church/body of Christ.

Why wouldn't God just speak of a separate mystery that would be found later instead of throwing off the whole week system that seems to work fine for the first 68 and 70th week?

Do you believe you know more than God? Your statement of "seems to work fine for the first 68 and 70th week" sounds like you have a better plan than what God said in His Word.

One more thing; if the church age wasn't to be revealed to Israel, why did the early church consist of a lot of Israelites (Judeans)?

Did Jesus' disciples not go to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" first? What did they preach? It wasn't about the church age...they preached the kingdom message, which is the announcement of the impending kingdom of God and the divine demand to repent.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus Himself revealed the coming Church age (Matthew 16:18) to His disciples. Then He gave His disciples the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:44-48; John 20:21 and Acts 1:8). The Church began at Pentecost, which was a Jewish feast (Leviticus 23:15-21), therefore it is a given that Jews would be present. That's why the majority of the first century church were Jews. Phillip preached to the Samaritans in Acts 8 and Peter preached to the house of Cornelius in Acts 10...and the door was open to preach the Gospel to the "uttermost part of the earth". The Apostle Paul was the one who went to the uttermost part of the earth (of that time period) and preached the Gospel to the Gentiles.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Do you believe you know more than God? Your statement of "seems to work fine for the first 68 and 70th week" sounds like you have a better plan than what God said in His Word.

Lol. You're the one saying that the 70 sevens are not really 70 sevens, but 69 sevens, with about 282 sevens and counting between the 69th and the 70th seven. It sounds to me that it is you who think you have a "better plan than what God said in His Word".

 

[Linda70]

Lol. You're the one saying that the 70 sevens are not really 70 sevens, but 69 sevens, with about 282 sevens and counting between the 69th and the 70th seven. It sounds to me that it is you who think you have a "better plan than what God said in His Word".

Sorry, but you are the one who is twisting the Word of God....not me. Your garbled statement makes as much sense as the person I quoted. Neither he, nor you have a clue about how to interpret Daniel's seventy week prophecy, or any other biblical prophecy. And because your "allegorical" garbled interpretations have their roots in Roman Catholicism, you find it necessary to point the "judgmental" finger at those who posting truth. Shame on you!

 

[BradC]

Sorry, but you are the one who is twisting the Word of God....not me. Your garbled statement makes as much sense as the person I quoted. Neither he, nor you have a clue about how to interpret Daniel's seventy week prophecy, or any other biblical prophecy. And because your "allegorical" garbled interpretations have their roots in Roman Catholicism, you find it necessary to point the "judgmental" finger at those who posting truth. Shame on you!

I am 100% one with you on this.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Sorry,

Apology noted and accepted.

but you are the one who is twisting the Word of God....not me.

Lol. How so? Does not 70 come after 69? For what reason do you install a mysterious gap? How have I twisted scripture. Answer me, if you can.

Your garbled statement makes as much sense as the person I quoted. Neither he, nor you have a clue about how to interpret Daniel's seventy week prophecy, or any other biblical prophecy.

Perhaps it is a rudimentary understanding of mathematics that you have a problem with? I don't understand how counting to 70 after 69 contradicts scripture.

And because your "allegorical" garbled interpretations have their roots in Roman Catholicism, you find it necessary to point the "judgmental" finger at those who posting truth. Shame on you!

Allegorical. Lol. 70 sevens is 70 sevens. Its simple - 1 more seven than 69 sevens. Whether the Jehovah's witnesses admit to this, the Roman Catholics, or even the devil, it can't change the truth. 70 immediately follows 69 - if anyone is being deceptive, it's he who says it does not.

 

[Linda70]

More Scripture twisting....

BTW, I wasn't apologizing

You still remain clueless.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

BTW, I wasn't apologizing

I think you're in the habit of saying what you don't mean.

"Sorry", but you weren't apologising.

"70", but not the number that comes immediately after 69.

More Scripture twisting....

When we are interpreting scripture exactly as written.

You still remain clueless.

When you mean that you have nothing to defend your false doctrine but the opinions of men.

 

[Elin]

This is a great observation. The problem is that we are dealing with a prophecy that was never interpreted within the text; therefor people can stretch it to fit whatever doctrine they want, and there is almost no way to disprove them.

All interpretation of prophetic riddles before their fulfillment is uncertain.

 

[jahsoul]

Do you believe you know more than God? Your statement of "seems to work fine for the first 68 and 70th week" sounds like you have a better plan than what God said in His Word.

This has nothing to do with me thinking that I know more than God. Truth is, your response sounds like someone who can't answer the question that I presented. But I have more questions because I'm genuinely trying to get insight on how this all makes sense; if Jesus revealed the coming of the church age in Matthew 16:18, what church was Christ talking about in Matthew 18:17? Also, if the 70 weeks has nothing to do with the church, why is the church wedged between the 69th and 70th week? I'm seriously trying to understand the purpose of this gap. Where in scripture explicitly details this gap?? If Daniel never spoke of a rapture, what biblical proof shows that it kicks off week 70? Also, what constitutes the church age; Gentiles coming to God?

 

[Josh321]

wow linda i see something in you that i haven't seen for a while on this forum, you actually have understand of the scriptures and doesn't differ from what it is saying and yes the jews will go through the trib not the bride of christ they will be raptured out before it starts

 

[jahsoul]

And just so you know Ms. Linda, I do respectfully disagree with my elders!!!

 

[CoooCaw]

the problem is this....
Assuming Jesus died at the end of the 69th week...
Acts starts with the ascension 43 days later....
Therefore the book of Acts MUST COVER the next seven years ie the seventieth week = the time of Jacob's trouble
Look at all the prophecies about the 70th week and show how they are fulfilled in the early chapters of the book of Acts

and IF THEY ARE NOT THERE - THEN WHERE AND WHEN??????????????????????????

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Therefore the book of Acts MUST COVER the next seven years ie the seventieth week = the time of Jacob's trouble
Look at all the prophecies about the 70th week and show how they are fulfilled in the early chapters of the book of Acts

I don't think the 70th week must cover the time of Jacob's trouble. My words in bold. Let me know if there's another prophecy you think contradicts.

Daniel 9:26a And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: [Jesus dying on the cross, after 7 and 62 weeks]
Daniel 9:26b and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; [and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, after Messiah is cut off, but the text is not saying the 70th week for this event]
Daniel 9:27a And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, [back to Jesus - talking about the 70th week, and His sacrificial death in the midst of it. Also the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and afterward?]
Daniel 9:27b and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. [destruction of temple/Jerusalem again, text not saying this is the 70th week]

 

[zone]

so Jesus 3 1/2 year ministry is in the first half of the 70th week followed IMMEDIATELY by the second 3 1/2 years!?

So who was it that caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease????

the fact you even have to ask this question should make you question everything you believe.

 

[zone]

The New Covenant is in Jesus blood, and His death is the final and sufficient sacrifice for sin. I am pretty sure that every Christian can agree that this prophecy was fulfilled in Christ.

Could this prophecy also apply to the Great Tribulation?

Many believe it does, and no Scripture that I have found has removed this as a possibility. I would not be surprised if the Antichrist uses many messianic prophecies during that time. I am sure Satan would love to deceive Christians based on their eschatology views.

Why are you guys still debating prophecy? It seems pretty clear to me that neither of you will be right in the end. If God needed us to have a clear view of how the End would come, then these visions would have been interpreted in the text, like the other visions! What God has left a mystery, will man make it clear?!
The truth that we find in these prophecies is: that God does have a plan for the end, and it is coming soon.

what The Antichrist?
could you show where is The Antichrist in Daniel 9?

 

[zone]

Im not going to debate this, if you want I can point you in the direction to start your journey to this truth:

10 words were added to Yahchanan (John) that added an additional Passover Feast to Yahshua's ministry, if these 10 words are quthentic, then all 4 messages of the Messiah go completely blank for a year....

This extra Passover was added so the 7th week could be proclaimed fulfilled then, (and im not saying you buy THIS part) the pope can regin as "the vicar of christ" on earth.

I used to also believe this 31/2 yr ministry, but I found out it is not true.

i don't have to believe there was an additional Passover.
i don't have to know the exact year Jesus was born.
none of those dates matter...though it's a fascinating study, and Daniel is where ALL THE DETAILS of the DAYS OF THOSE KINGS are found.

the whole book is fulfilled. it was for and about ISRAEL.

what matters is the 490 years decreed FOR Daniel's people and the city.

from start to finish....FULFILLED.
the "vicar of christ - the pope" is not, i repeat NOT in Daniel, and not anywhere else is the Bible. nowhere.
we can discuss the office of the pope, the false religion of Catholicism, bad guys abounding....GREAT!
but do not insert them into the Biblical text.

Daniel was about - and ONLY - about the jews (israel) and Jerusalem in the days of their final captivity in Babylon...their release...the rebuilding...the Coming of the Redeemer...the death of Him FOR HIS PEOPLE....and abominations and desolations - the KILLING OF THE MESSIAH.....animal sacrifices after Christ; murder of the righteous by the zealots; political subversion; Herod murdering high priests; wars; revolution; false prophets; blasphemies; pagan abominations - of the people (jews and gentiles) in THE CITY Jerusalem.

until the city was razed and God's wrath on her was complete.

the pope specifically is not in the Bible.
unless he was in Jerusalem during Christ's ministry and the Acts of the Apostles.
was he?

the Time of Jacob's Trouble is OVER.

 

[BradC]

It is interesting to note that those who are adamant on this 70th week having already been 'literally' fulfilled following the 69th week, yet allegorize the 1,000 years that Satan is bound and apply it to the present as actively being fulfilled. They have to do this because they are unable to justify the 2,000 plus years since this binding took place nor offer a reason why Christ has not yet come back for the saints. They also have a problem explaining why the events of the time of the great tribulation have not taken place knowing it is a precursor of the second coming. They on purpose leave the nation and people of Israel out of the equation as they struggle with this in their inconsistency all because they have a prejudice with the unconditional promises and covenant of God that was established with and toward that nation and its people. The answer to their dilemma is right in front of them and they do not see it and want you to think it is heresy to believe otherwise. How much more blindness must they fall under before they realize that they wrestle with these scriptures to their own demise and in the process hurt the faith of some, who God will recover.