Support your Local Jew!

[zone]

i have pointed this out in another thread actually...by insinuating on numerous occasions that those who disagree with her eschatology are not saved...she is in fact espousing a false gospel that adds extra requirements to the biblical gospel of salvation by grace through faith in christ alone...

you've pointed out zip.
you post a lot inflammatory insults and accusationas against me that you never back up.

i follow through. i present it you...then you bail (not the other scenario you tried ascribing to me).
what happened to the apology you should have offered after falsely representing the LCMS?
lying in fact about them....there was none.
you just found a way to blame me for your foolishness.

you are wrong about Rev 11.
you were wrong about LCMS.
your bogus history of "preterism" which is simply the understanding that all the prophecies related to national Israel came to pass exactly as the NT says they did (which when shown you again just vanish for awhile).
you've accused me of lusting for the extermination of the jews - just a sickening display of your motivations - which are both worldy toward Israel and hate in your heart for me.

really i don't care about the second part - but don't be a hypocrite - love me as your enemy regardless. isn't that your creed, dear?

where's all that rope you gave me to hang myself with Rachel - start some threads.
see you there.

in the meantime, get your history and church history straight.
instead of making it up as you go....adding in conspiracy theories i might add

allegorzing Mystery Babylon to be some world thing that can be held responsible for all the righteous blood shed - even after JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF explained what that meant - several times....cuz you don't like dem A-rabs.

but Rachel knows better than Jesus.

 

[zone]

“Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the religious scholar and spiritual leader of Israel's Sephardic Jews who transformed his downtrodden community of immigrants from North Africa and Arab nations and their descendants into a powerful force in Israeli politics, died on Monday... Yosef was often called the outstanding Sephardic rabbinical authority of the century. His prominence helped boost the confidence of his community, which makes up roughly half of Israel's population...” - AP Oct 7

......


“An eminent rabbi who heads Israel's third biggest political party sparked an uproar in Israel for saying that 6 million Jews perished in the Holocaust because they were reincarnations of sinners. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef was speaking in his weekly Saturday night sermon that is broadcast over the party’s radio stations and is beamed overseas by satellite. He said the six million Holocaust victims ‘were reincarnations of the souls of sinners, people who transgressed and did all sorts of things that should not be done. They had been reincarnated in order to atone.’ [Associated Press, Aug. 6, 2000].

Yehoshua Mashav told Israel Radio that “in plain language (Rabbi) Yosef was saying that Hitler...‘was simply the messenger of God sent to give the Jewish people their just desserts.” [The Independent (UK), Aug. 6, 2000].

“May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arab heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them. It is forbidden to have pity on them. We must give them missiles with relish, annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones.” [2001 Passover sermon. Cf. Haaretz, April 12, 2001].


is there an excuse for this?
what would that excuse be?

there's a reason for it - The Babylonian Talmud teaches it.
does anything excuse it?

is it likely to engender goodwill?
is goodwill the desire?


“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel...With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew. Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.” [Jerusalem Post, October 18, 2010].

Re: Support your Local Jew!

QUESTIONS:

will emminent Rabbi Rabbi Ovadia Yosef be [reincarnated?] saved, because ALL ISRAEL will be saved?

was Rabbi Rabbi Ovadia Yosef in Covenant with God?

 

[Elin]

you need to examine your misplaced theology. It is a contrived travesty by those who can not bring themselves
to charge God with favoritism toward Israel and the children of Israel,

God's only favorites are those who believe in his one and only Son.

Jesus said that apart from that faith, all others are his condemned enemies (Jn 3:18, 36).

We get to choose who to believe. . .Jesus, or your misinterpretation of prophetic riddles.
Another no-brainer.

Rejecters of God's one and only Son have no special dispensation from the Father.

the truth that we have learned through the Spirit.

Any truth learned from the Spirit will always be in agreement with the truth which that same Spirit gave in the NT word of God written.

Neither God nor his Spirit contradicts himself.

 

[Elin]

The alternative is Replacement theology which you espouse - the inevitable result of which is antisemitism which you clearly practice. - just not smart (Gen 12:3)

Jesus is the author of "replacement theology":

"Therefore, I tell you that the kingdom of heaven will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit."
(Mt 21:43)

I go with Jesus and the "alternative."

 

[Praus]

You and your friends are not interested in a "Biblical" discussion. You are more interested in pushing your own agenda, which is antisemitic to the core.

Who are "you and your friends?" As you can see, I'm very interested in fighting antisemitism.

Jewish Family Services is a major force for good in my city.

 

[PennEd]

you've pointed out zip.
you post a lot inflammatory insults and accusationas against me that you never back up.

i follow through. i present it you...then you bail (not the other scenario you tried ascribing to me).
what happened to the apology you should have offered after falsely representing the LCMS?
lying in fact about them....there was none.
you just found a way to blame me for your foolishness.

you are wrong about Rev 11.
you were wrong about LCMS.
your bogus history of "preterism" which is simply the understanding that all the prophecies related to national Israel came to pass exactly as the NT says they did (which when shown you again just vanish for awhile).
you've accused me of lusting for the extermination of the jews - just a sickening display of your motivations - which are both worldy toward Israel and hate in your heart for me.

really i don't care about the second part - but don't be a hypocrite - love me as your enemy regardless. isn't that your creed, dear?

where's all that rope you gave me to hang myself with Rachel - start some threads.
see you there.

in the meantime, get your history and church history straight.
instead of making it up as you go....adding in conspiracy theories i might add

allegorzing Mystery Babylon to be some world thing that can be held responsible for all the righteous blood shed - even after JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF explained what that meant - several times....cuz you don't like dem A-rabs.

but Rachel knows better than Jesus.

I submit my brothers and sisters, Is THIS someone who has the love Of Jesus reigning in her?

 

[Elin]

Are you jealous of their progress and success in Israel or do you commend them for what they have accomplished? There will always be those that will think evil of the Jews but does that mean that you have to take on that spirit?

Back to the blame-shifting and drip, drip of guilting in lieu of Biblically supporting one's opinion.

Weird. . .red herring.

 

[1still_waters]

Some folks in this thread need to step away and calm their nerves.
Things are getting personal.

I say this as an admin of these forums.

Step away and collect yourselves.

 

[zone]

I submit my brothers and sisters, Is THIS someone who has the love Of Jesus reigning in her?

i submit to you dear friend...that you search RachelBibleStudents posts to me over the years.
her many UNCHRISTIAN accusations and assertions against me.....debunked btw.

and yet posted without rebuke from the CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS with all this love in their hearts.

 

[Praus]

I submit my brothers and sisters, Is THIS someone who has the love Of Jesus reigning in her?

I submit my brothers and sisters, Is THIS someone who has the love Of Jesus reigning in him?

Against the Execrable Bull of the Antichrist by Martin Luther

Against the Execrable Bull of the Antichrist (excerpt)
Martin Luther's Reply to the Papal Bull of Leo X
Source: Roland H. Bainton, Here I Stand: A Life of Martin Luther (Hendrickson Classic, 1950)(pp. 153-155).

I have heard that a bull against me has gone through the whole earth before it came to me, because being a daughter of darkness it feared the light of my face. For this reason and also because it condemns manifestly the Christian articles I had my doubts whether it really came from Rome and was not rather the progeny of that man of lies, dissimulation, errors, and heresy, that monster John Eck. The suspicion was further increased when it was said that Eck was the apostle of the bull. Indeed the sty1e and the spittle all point to Eck. True, it is not impossible that where Eck is the apostle there one should find the kingdom of Antichrist. Nevertheless in the meantime I will act as if I thought Leo not responsible, not that I may honor the Roman name, but because I do not consider myself worthy to suffer such high things for the truth of God. For who before God would be happier than Luther if he were condemned from so great and high a source for such manifest truth? But the cause seeks a worthier martyr. I with my sins merit other things. But whoever wrote this bull, he is Antichrist. I protest before God, our Lord Jesus, his sacred angels, and the whole world that with my whole heart I dissent from the damnation of this bull, that I curse and execrate it as sacrilege and blasphemy of Christ, God's Son and our Lord. This be my recantation, Oh bull, thou daughter of bulls.

Having given my testimony I proceed to take up the bull. Peter said that you should give a reason for the faith that is in you, but this bull condemns me from its own word without any proof from Scripture, whereas I back up all my assertions from the Bible. I ask thee, ignorant Antichrist, dost thou think that with thy naked words thou canst prevail against the armor of Scripture? Hast thou learned this from Cologne and Louvain? If this is all it takes, just to say, “I dissent, I deny," what foo1, what ass, what mole, what log could not condemn? Does not thy meretricious brow blush that with thine inane smoke thou withstandest the lightning of the divine Word? Why do we not believe the Turks? Why do we not admit the Jews? Why do we not honor the heretic if damning is all that it takes? But Luther, who is used to bellum, is not afraid of bullam . I can distinguish between inane paper and the omnipotent Word of God.

They show their ignorance and bad conscience by inventing the adverb "respectively.” My articles are called "respectively some heretical, some erroneous, some scandalous," which is as much as to say, “We don't know which are which.” 0h meticulous ignorance! I wish to be instructed, not respectively, but absolutely and certainly. I demand that they show absolutely, not respectively, distinctly and not confusedly, certainly and not probably, clearly and not obscurely, point by point and not in a lump, just what is heretical. Let them show where I am a heretic, or dry up their spittle. They say that some articles are heretical, some erroneous, some scandalous, some offensive. The implication is that those which are heretical are not erroneous, those which are erroneous are not scandalous, and those which are scandalous are not offensive. What then is this, to say that something is not heretica1, not scandalous, not false, but yet is offensive? So then, you impious and insensate papists, write soberly if you want to write. Whether this bull is by Eck or by the pope, it is the sum of all impiety, blasphemy, ignorance, impudence, hypocrisy, lying – in a word, it is Satan and his Antichrist.

Where are you now, most excellent Charles the Emperor, kings, and Christian princes? You were baptized into the name of Christ, and can you suffer these Tartar voices of Antichrist? Where are you, bishops? Where, doctors? Where are you who confess Christ? Woe to all who live in these times. The wrath of God is coming upon the papists, the enemies Of the cross of Christ, that all men should resist them. You then, Leo X, you cardinals and the rest of you at Rome, I tell you to your faces: "If this bull has come out in your name, then I will use the power which has been given me in baptism whereby I became a son of God and co-heir with Christ, established upon the rock against which the gates of hell cannot prevail. I call upon you to renounce your diabolical blasphemy and audacious impiety, and, if you will not, we shall all hold your seat as possessed and oppressed by Satan, the damned seat of Antichrist; in the name of Jesus Christ, whom you persecute. But my zeal carries me away. I am not yet persuaded that the bull is by the pope but rather by that apostle of impiety, John Eck....

If anyone despises my fraternal warning, I am free from his blood in the last judgment. It is better that I should die a thousand times than that I should retract one syllable of the condemned articles. And as they excommunicated me for the sacrilege of heresy, so I excommunicate them in the name of the sacred truth of God. Christ will judge whose excommunication will stand. Amen.

 

[Elin]

You have very succinctly nailed why some of these people have no problem with disparaging Jewish people so easily. "because of sin, the love of many will grow cold".

I guess there is fruit in exposing them for what they are to the casual reader, but don't delude yourself into thinking you can change their mind. Maybe God will soften their hearts, but I suspect their ever growing appetite for anti-semitism is only being fed and made stronger here.

There seems to be serious confusion of anti-Semitism with NT non-showing of partiality to particular persons.

But as the man says, there is profit in confusion.

Labeling NT non-partiality of a people as anti-Semitism serves the purpose of blame-shifting and the drip, drip of guilting in lieu of a Biblical defense.

Weird. . .red herring.

 

[zone]

you've pointed out zip.
you post a lot inflammatory insults and accusationas against me that you never back up.

i follow through. i present it you...then you bail (not the other scenario you tried ascribing to me).
what happened to the apology you should have offered after falsely representing the LCMS?
lying in fact about them....there was none.
you just found a way to blame me for your foolishness.

you are wrong about Rev 11.
you were wrong about LCMS.
your bogus history of "preterism" which is simply the understanding that all the prophecies related to national Israel came to pass exactly as the NT says they did (which when shown you again just vanish for awhile).
you've accused me of lusting for the extermination of the jews - just a sickening display of your motivations - which are both worldy toward Israel and hate in your heart for me.

really i don't care about the second part - but don't be a hypocrite - love me as your enemy regardless. isn't that your creed, dear?

where's all that rope you gave me to hang myself with Rachel - start some threads.
see you there.

in the meantime, get your history and church history straight.
instead of making it up as you go....adding in conspiracy theories i might add

allegorzing Mystery Babylon to be some world thing that can be held responsible for all the righteous blood shed - even after JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF explained what that meant - several times....cuz you don't like dem A-rabs.

but Rachel knows better than Jesus.

i apologize to the forum and retract this post - for it's personal content.
i have used the ignore feature and will not engage certain posters - due to this sort of laspe.
though having already determined not to engage certain individuals - i did.
once again, my apologies to the forum..

zone

 

[Elin]

I thought what I was saying was pretty clear.... Dispensationalism is not heresy.

Anything that disagrees with the words of Jesus (Jn 3:18, 36) and the rest of the NT as much as what is today called dispensationalism is absolutely heresy.

Review the last four pages of this thread for the NT that it contradicts.

 

[Praus]

I submit my brothers and sisters, Is THIS someone who has the love Of Jesus reigning in her?

I submit my brothers and sisters, Is THIS someone who has the love Of Jesus reigning in him?

On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the Jews and Their Lies is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.

In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[1] Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine," [2] and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".[3]

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare against Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are -

(1) for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
(2) for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
(3) for their religious writings to be taken away;
(4) for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
(5) for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
(6) for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
(7) for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.[4]

 

[Kerry]

Dang I thought that the OT was a dispensation, then what was it?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

your bogus history of "preterism" which is simply the understanding that all the prophecies related to national Israel came to pass exactly as the NT says they did (which when shown you again just vanish for awhile).

this one line is worthy of a reply...

preterism is -not- 'simply the understanding that all the prophecies related to national israel came to pass exactly as the new testament says they did'

if that was all preterism was i might almost qualify as a preterist myself...

however preterism puts many prophecies -not- clearly related to national israel in the first century as well...especially if you consider 'full preterism' which places everything from the resurrection of the dead to the new heaven and new earth in the first century...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

returning to the topic of the thread...

[video=youtube;_iZXClyvbH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iZXClyvbH4[/video]

 

[Kerry]

I thought that prophecy died with the Apostles or once the bible was canonized. Now here you are talking about prophecy. Oh and healing also.

 

[zone]

THE "DISPENSATION OF GRACE"

Dispensational doctrine:

Dispensationalism seeks to address what many see as opposing theologies between the Old Testament and New Testament. Its name comes from the fact that it sees biblical history as best understood in light of a series of dispensations in the Bible. Most dispensationalists cite seven dispensations although this is not a critical or foundational factor to the theology:

the dispensation of innocence (Gen 1:1–3:7), prior to Adam's fall,

of conscience (Gen 3:8–8:22), Adam to Noah,
of government (Gen 9:1–11:32), Noah to Abraham,
of patriarchal rule (Gen 12:1–Exod 19:25), Abraham to Moses,
of the Mosaic Law (Exod 20:1–Acts 2:4), Moses to Christ,
of grace (Acts 2:4–Rev 20:3—except for Hyperdispensationalists and Ultradispensationalists), the current church age, and
of a literal, earthly 1,000-year Millennial Kingdom that has yet to come but soon will (Rev 20:4–20:6).

Dispensationalist theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

........

THE "DISPENSATION OF GRACE"

Biblical reference/definition: EPHESIANS 3:2

New International Version
Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,

New Living Translation
assuming, by the way, that you know God gave me the special responsibility of extending his grace to you Gentiles.

English Standard Version
assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you,

New American Standard Bible
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

King James Bible
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
you have heard, haven't you, about the administration of God's grace that He gave to me for you?

International Standard Version
Surely you have heard about the responsibility of administering God's grace that was given to me on your behalf,

NET Bible
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
If you have heard of the administration of the grace of God, which is given to me among you.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Certainly, you have heard how God gave me the responsibility of bringing his kindness to you.

Jubilee Bible 2000
if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which has been given to me in you,

King James 2000 Bible
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you:

American King James Version
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

American Standard Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Douay-Rheims Bible
If yet you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me towards you:

Darby Bible Translation
(if indeed ye have heard of the administration of the grace of God which has been given to me towards you,

English Revised Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Webster's Bible Translation
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me on your account.

Weymouth New Testament
if, that is, you have heard of the work which God has graciously entrusted to me for your benefit,

World English Bible
if it is so that you have heard of the administration of that grace of God which was given me toward you;

Young's Literal Translation
if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you,


oikonomia: stewardship, administration
Original Word: οἰκονομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikonomia
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kon-om-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: stewardship
Definition: management of household affairs, stewardship, administration.


...


The dispensation - Greek "economy;" rendered "stewardship," Luke 16:2-4; and "dispensation," Ephesians 1:10; Ephesians 3:2; Colossians 1:25; see the notes at Ephesians 1:10. It means here that this arrangement was made that he should be the apostle to the Gentiles. In the assignment of the different parts of the work of preaching the gospel, the office had been committed to him of making it known to the pagan.

Of the grace of God - In the arrangements of his grace.

Which is given me to you-ward - Toward you who are Gentiles. Not to the Ephesians particularly, but to the nations at large; see the notes at Galatians 2:7. - Barne's

....

2. If—The Greek does not imply doubt: "Assuming (what I know to be the fact, namely) that ye have heard," &c. "If, as I presume," The indicative in the Greek shows that no doubt is implied: "Seeing that doubtless," &c. He by this phrase delicately reminds them of their having heard from himself, and probably from others subsequently, the fact. See [2364]Introduction, showing that these words do not disprove the address of this Epistle to the Ephesians. Compare Ac 20:17-24.
the dispensation—"The office of dispensing, as a steward, the grace of God which was (not 'is') given me to you-ward," namely, to dispense to you. - JFBBC

 

[LT]

Anything that disagrees with the words of Jesus (Jn 3:18, 36) and the rest of the NT as much as what is today called dispensationalism is absolutely heresy.

Review the last four pages of this thread for the NT that it contradicts.

I have been following this thread since it started. I am not sure which scripture you are referring to. None of the scriptures that I've read can clearly refute Dispensationalism(although I disagree with this theology as a whole). Calling it heresy is very strong wording. Saying that it is wrong, or misguided, or has a poor outlook; these are acceptable terms.
Examples of what I'm saying:
Is rejection of Eternal Security a heresy?
Is the modern practice of speaking in tongues a heresy?
These are things that are not "hills we should be dying on". Dispensationalism has some serious flaws, but calling it "heresy" is going too far.
Preach the truth; don't stir up hatred by condemning another persons opinion.

There is no love in your conviction, because it is not rooted in the Spirit, but a conviction from your mind.
Reread my post, and I explained that: some heresy was spoken on this thread, under the guise of dispensationalism, but it was not a part of the doctrine.

If you sincerely think I am wrong, and that Dispensationalism is a true heresy, pm me some of your evidence, and we will clear this up with some Ryrie quotes and scriptures.
I think a separate thread would be better for this type of debate anyways.