Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible
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Of course there are real gifts those in Eph 4:11 are real. The most prized gift of tongues is not genuine especially as practiced by the modern charismatic/Pentacostal crowd.
I guess we must ask is the focus on Christ or is the focus on us? Planting the word of God and watering it with prayer in the hope that God will give the increase and a soul will come to a saving knowledge of Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I guess we must ask is the focus on Christ or is the focus on us? Planting the word of God and watering it with prayer in the hope that God will give the increase and a soul will come to a saving knowledge of Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How did Peter know that Cornelius spoke in tongues and that is was not demonized stuff??
How did the church than knew the difference between good and evil? (Acts 8:13-28, acts 16:16)
So....how do we know now the difference between good and evil?
God is the same yesterday today and forever
The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday today and forever. Isn't He?
I can tell you how I determine what is bad or not.
1 I read the Bible, to gain knowledge of what is Christlike/ Biblical/ Spiritual.
2 I use the Bible to reprove, rebuke, exhort and pierce.
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. Acts 11:15-18
How did the church than knew the difference between good and evil? (Acts 8:13-28, acts 16:16)
So....how do we know now the difference between good and evil?
God is the same yesterday today and forever
The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday today and forever. Isn't He?
I can tell you how I determine what is bad or not.
1 I read the Bible, to gain knowledge of what is Christlike/ Biblical/ Spiritual.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so Act 17:11
This is what Paul did teach the Thessalonians:
Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. 2 'Thes 5:19-21
The Corinthian letter clearly tells about gifts and how to use them.
2 I use the Bible to reprove, rebuke, exhort and pierce.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Math 4:7
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God Ef 6:17
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Tim 4:2
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebr 4:12
3 I pray that the Spirit learns me to discern the right way/words/gifts.
And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Jes 30:21
to another discerning of spirits 1 Cor 12:10
That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; Phil 1:10
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Heb 5:14
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou may be rich; and white raiment, that thou may be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou may see. Rev 3:18
Let's try a bit more specific,someone speaks in a "tongue" first how do you know that the person is speaking a true tongue and not something else? Someone then interprets the tongue how do you know the person is translating it correctly? So how in those does one determine that the one speaking is speaking by the Holy Spirit and not something else? We are to test that spirit so how do you test that spirit?
Don't forget Peter was an apostle who most likely also was given the gift of interpretation,and he also spoke in multiple languages
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when are you going to get started?
do you know the Shepherd's Voice?
...
if this is what you have in mind, expect to encounter resistance. at every turn.
i will never follow these guys. they are not from God.
[video=youtube;8GWARNfkbvo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GWARNfkbvo[/video]
Bob Jones Prophetic Word Of The Month June 2013 "Stonecutters"
Published on Jun 9, 2013
Here is a sample of Prophetic Word:
"The Lord is bringing forth stonecutters. They are His elders and His government; the five-fold ministries. The first thing they will be preparing is the foundation stones for a new temple and a new movement of the Holy Spirit. The foundation that will be laid this year is that of Eph. 2:20 as the foundation is laid upon the apostles and prophets..."
....
2 Corinthians 11:13
Paul and the False Apostles
12But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
do you know the Shepherd's Voice?
...
if this is what you have in mind, expect to encounter resistance. at every turn.
i will never follow these guys. they are not from God.
[video=youtube;8GWARNfkbvo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GWARNfkbvo[/video]
Bob Jones Prophetic Word Of The Month June 2013 "Stonecutters"
Published on Jun 9, 2013
Here is a sample of Prophetic Word:
"The Lord is bringing forth stonecutters. They are His elders and His government; the five-fold ministries. The first thing they will be preparing is the foundation stones for a new temple and a new movement of the Holy Spirit. The foundation that will be laid this year is that of Eph. 2:20 as the foundation is laid upon the apostles and prophets..."
....
2 Corinthians 11:13
Paul and the False Apostles
12But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Why don't we turn the focus back on the passage of scripture? How would Paul's immediate audience know and do these things? The speakers in tongues spoke mysteries that others could not understand. Yet Paul's instructions allowed for him to speak and for one to interpret. If all those concerns you raised are supposed to stop the gifts from functioning, how was the church supposed to deal with these issues? If these concerns are supposed to cripple people and keep them from obeying the passage, why doesn't Paul raise these concerns?
The Bible says to 'let all things be done unto edifying.' If you don't know the tongue, you can't say 'amen' to it. But that doesn't mean you don't allow it, because it is written 'forbid not to speak with tongues.' The church may be able to tell if the interpretation is edifying.
Maybe, but what do you base this one?
wanna find out if you are going to be part of the Five-Fold Ministry God is supposedly ordaining?
(apparently the foundation He already laid wasn't sufficient....IT CEASED or FAILED....and now He needs another)
who knows - maybe you are:
Heart Revealer (Prophet)
Light Giver (Teacher)
Soul Healer (Pastor)
Story Teller (Evangelist)
Dream Awakener (Apostle)
etc.
Fivefold Ministry Test
Welcome to the Five Fold Ministry Test. This is a simple questionnaire that will hopefully identity your top two giftings for impacting people. It only takes a few minutes. Go ahead and try it and see what you think.
Fivefold Ministry Test
yes....that all sounds like a solid construction plan for the New Five-Fold Ministry
(since the first one failed
)
(apparently the foundation He already laid wasn't sufficient....IT CEASED or FAILED....and now He needs another)
who knows - maybe you are:
Heart Revealer (Prophet)
Light Giver (Teacher)
Soul Healer (Pastor)
Story Teller (Evangelist)
Dream Awakener (Apostle)
etc.
Fivefold Ministry Test
Welcome to the Five Fold Ministry Test. This is a simple questionnaire that will hopefully identity your top two giftings for impacting people. It only takes a few minutes. Go ahead and try it and see what you think.
Fivefold Ministry Test
yes....that all sounds like a solid construction plan for the New Five-Fold Ministry
(since the first one failed
)
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Why do you attempt to confuse apostolic gifts with the charismatic gifts? Shame on you.
The conversion of 3000 on the day of Pentecost is not attributed to the evidence of tongues but to the preaching of Gods word by Peter. How is it that you overlook the heart of the matter? Men are converted by the hearing of Gods word. Rom 10:17
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The conversion of 3000 on the day of Pentecost is not attributed to the evidence of tongues but to the preaching of Gods word by Peter. How is it that you overlook the heart of the matter? Men are converted by the hearing of Gods word. Rom 10:17
For the cause of Christ
Roger
he was referring to complete knowledge that would come - when something which was complete would come.
complete knowing. partial knowing would cease when something complete would come.
Jesus and or the eternal state ARE not the subject of that passage.
not by any stretch.
ya....in the future FOR HIM and them.
they have all fallen asleep.
the waiting is the point, not the Second Coming. come on.
no kidding.
the prophets have all spoken.
there aint none today - thats self-evident. millions making the claim and they all disgaree and run around uttering different stuff - not one word of which has been added to scripture.
Did God make a mistake by completing the Bible did men do that when they should not have
this is a point i would like to hear your opinion on.
complete knowing. partial knowing would cease when something complete would come.
Jesus and or the eternal state ARE not the subject of that passage.
not by any stretch.
ya....in the future FOR HIM and them.
they have all fallen asleep.
the waiting is the point, not the Second Coming. come on.
no kidding.
the prophets have all spoken.
there aint none today - thats self-evident. millions making the claim and they all disgaree and run around uttering different stuff - not one word of which has been added to scripture.
Did God make a mistake by completing the Bible
did men do that when they should not havethis is a point i would like to hear your opinion on.
I haven't seen a real one yet, have you? If I faked tongues in any pentecostal or charismatic church today, I doubt one single person would be able call me out on my fabrication. I am willing to bet that almost all of them (who actually claim to interpret), would interpret my babble for me. This is something I'd like to test one day if I ever get the chance. Can you tell the difference in real and fake? If you can, how? Can you interpret some internet videos for us? How would we know you aren't lying?
The God doesn't change argument that people like to throw out for this topic doesn't work. God doesn't change but he has a set plan for things. Parts of his plans stop and start as he wills it. It doesn't mean God changed. If the logic for this argument is drawn to it's conclusion, you call God a liar because he put an end to his first covenant and made a new one, or else you claim that Jesus wasn't God, because "God doesn't change". Of course he doesn't, but he sure can do what he pleases when he pleases, start things when he wants them started, and stop them when he wants them stopped.
Acts 2:17
16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
this happened, according to the promise; given to israel; at Pentecost. peter confirmed it.
you deny that.
Acts 10
Peter’s Vision
9The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hourb to pray. 10And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” 16This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.
17Now while Peter was inwardly perplexed as to what the vision that he had seen might mean, behold, the men who were sent by Cornelius, having made inquiry for Simon’s house, stood at the gate 18and called out to ask whether Simon who was called Peter was lodging there. 19And while Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. 20Rise and go down and accompany them without hesitation, for I have sent them.” 21And Peter went down to the men and said, “I am the one you are looking for. What is the reason for your coming?” 22And they said, “Cornelius, a centurion, an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and to hear what you have to say.” 23So he invited them in to be his guests.
The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24And on the following day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.” 27And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered. 28And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me.”
30And Cornelius said, “Four days ago, about this hour, I was praying in my house at the ninth hour,c and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing 31and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. 32Send therefore to Joppa and ask for Simon who is called Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea.’ 33So I sent for you at once, and you have been kind enough to come. Now therefore we are all here in the presence of God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.”
Gentiles Hear the Good News
34So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him....
1) And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
2) They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear,
3) not to all the people
4) but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
5) And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
any apostles today getting WORLD CHANGING visions then proceeding to follow through and have stuff happen in real time and make proclamations like Peter?
did Peter know what the PLAN was BEFORE he got the revelation in a VISION?
no, clearly not. prior to that he KNEW IN PART.
oh look: the tongues were A SIGN FOR THE JEWS:
The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him.
And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
this happened, according to the promise; given to israel; at Pentecost. peter confirmed it.
you deny that.
Acts 10
Peter’s Vision
9The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hourb to pray. 10And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” 16This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.
17Now while Peter was inwardly perplexed as to what the vision that he had seen might mean, behold, the men who were sent by Cornelius, having made inquiry for Simon’s house, stood at the gate 18and called out to ask whether Simon who was called Peter was lodging there. 19And while Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. 20Rise and go down and accompany them without hesitation, for I have sent them.” 21And Peter went down to the men and said, “I am the one you are looking for. What is the reason for your coming?” 22And they said, “Cornelius, a centurion, an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and to hear what you have to say.” 23So he invited them in to be his guests.
The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24And on the following day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.” 27And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered. 28And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me.”
30And Cornelius said, “Four days ago, about this hour, I was praying in my house at the ninth hour,c and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing 31and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. 32Send therefore to Joppa and ask for Simon who is called Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea.’ 33So I sent for you at once, and you have been kind enough to come. Now therefore we are all here in the presence of God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.”
Gentiles Hear the Good News
34So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him....
1) And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
2) They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear,
3) not to all the people
4) but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
5) And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
any apostles today getting WORLD CHANGING visions then proceeding to follow through and have stuff happen in real time and make proclamations like Peter?
did Peter know what the PLAN was BEFORE he got the revelation in a VISION?
no, clearly not. prior to that he KNEW IN PART.
oh look: the tongues were A SIGN FOR THE JEWS:
The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him.
And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
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The question is not what 'to teleion' refers to grammatically. It's used in an abstract sense. The question is when does this completeness come, this completeness that includes completeness of knowledge and prophesying, the completeness that makes Paul's speech, knowledge, and understanding when I Corinthians 13 was written seem childish in comparison, this completeness that causes Paul to know as he is known? It is the completing of the individual's knowledge, Paul's knowledge ('I' in the passage), and also the completing of the church's knowledge ('we') in the passage. It is not about having access to knowledge, but having the knowledge. It is not about having a book or the knowledge available to us that is in a book. Rather it involves a transformation of the individual so that his prior understanding would seem childish, even a greatly knowledgeable individual like Paul.
What is it about the book of Revelation that makes Paul's doctrines seem childish by comparison? If they are in part, should they be done away with? Why are they included in the canon if that is what Paul is talking about?
If you can't get it from reading the passage, then read the book. The Corinthians were to come behind in no spiritual gift waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And he hasn't been resurrected yet.
What is it about the book of Revelation that makes Paul's doctrines seem childish by comparison? If they are in part, should they be done away with? Why are they included in the canon if that is what Paul is talking about?
If you can't get it from reading the passage, then read the book. The Corinthians were to come behind in no spiritual gift waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And he hasn't been resurrected yet.