Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[homwardbound]

Did not Paul say they would cease in 1 Corinthians 13?

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Are you denying Paul said that also?

Not at all, the question thus remains when do they cease not that they have ceased. For some it has they have come to the love of God that goes on forever and put down the other things that is talked about in Hebrews 6 as God permits, not me, you or anyone else.
For me it is done and put down, has been for years, and God is the one that has shown me personally this as you have been shown too. So others have not been shown this yet, and who is it that can show anyone this? You, me, Zone, anyone?
ONLY GOD can do this individually as God sees fit. For it is who that gives the increase? God
I know I trust God. You do too yes?
So putting down the gifts, toys, is done in God, and LOVE of God is spread abroad in and through out our whole being. Loving all as God Loves us, where Prostitutes enter into the Kingdom before any Pharisee. Because why? They know what they are, have been and are asking for God's Mercy, knowing they do not deserve it, as I know I do not either, no matter what I do after belief, I do not deserve God's Mercy ever. And neither does anyone else.

 

[zone]

no where in the Bible did God ever say to figure it out. But he did say upteen times, to trust God in all things.
So are you of self fighting what others believe against what you believe, and thus might not be being led by God.
We today are given the Holy Ghost by belief in God, being thus born again in God's Spirit to walk as Christ walked.
Christ's Job is done, finished, he did what he came here to do and that is:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Through his death, to give you life by his resurrected life, a gift from God to us all that believe, and scripture plainly states to not forbid tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues

Okay, there are those that are fake, but Sister is CHRIST being preached?
What did Christ say to his disciples about that?
Matthew 12:24-26

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]and if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

God knows all, everyone's thoughts and motives, so why can't you just trust God to straighten it out.

Romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So are you done planting and or watering or are you just fighting in flesh?

"Okay, there are those that are fake, but Sister is CHRIST being preached?"

[video=youtube;cQ4114XO-Xo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4114XO-Xo[/video]



HOME - IS CHRIST BEING PREACHED BY THOSE 'NOT FORBIDDING' TONGUES?

you need to tell me if Christ is being preached by the guy in this video while he speaks tongues, or by anyone else speaking tongues (i'm not asking about when actually speaks english....tell me what he is preaching in tongues)

the only things i understand are spoken by him in IN ENGLISH.

- "jesus jesus"
- "yes lord yes lord"
- "FIRE...FIRE"
- "it's all over, it's all over"
- "we worship you lord we worship you lord"
- "god almighty god almighty"
- "it's all over this building church, it's all over this building"
- "bring them bring them bring them"
- "we're gonna pray for more we're gonna pray for more"
- "now FIRE oh FIRE"
- "jesus jesus jesus"
- "we worship you lord we worship you lord"
- "MORE"
- "watch 'em watch 'em"
- "i worship you lord we worship you lord"


SINCE I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE TONGUES HE IS SPEAKING IN, and there is no INTERPRETER, would you, HOME, please tell me if JESUS IS BEING PREACHED in tongues?

is chanting the name jesus or saying fire fire fire bring them bring we worship you PREACHING JESUS?

what did Paul mean that Jesus was preached?

what do YOU mean "Jesus is preached/is Jesus preached"?

7:50

"I WANNA OPEN UP THE ALTAR FOR ANY FIRST TIMERS HERE....WHO WANNA GET WHAT THESE KIDS ARE GETTIN'...I WANNA GET WHAT THESE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE GETTIN'...IF THAT'S YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS....YOUR FIRST TIME ATTENDING THIS REVIVAL...COME ON COME ON...THE ALTAR'S OPEN FOR YOU..I'LL TELL YOU WHAT IT'S SO POWERFUL UP HERE.."

can any of that bring my unsaved neighbor to repentance and faith and trust in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin, or cause him to walk in the ways of the Lord, Home? can any of that bring up a child in the faith delivered once for all, according to Paul's letter to Timothy?

....

you said to and OF sarah:

"So are you of self fighting what others believe against what you believe, and thus might not be being led by God."

do you believe God is doing that to those kids? are YOU led of God?

"We today are given the Holy Ghost by belief in God, being thus born again in God's Spirit to walk as Christ walked."

did Jesus do anything like we see in that video? Himself and TO OTHERS?

 

[zone]

no where in the Bible did God ever say to figure it out. But he did say upteen times, to trust God in all things.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
20do not despise prophetic utterances.
21But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;
22abstain from every form of evil.

did Paul say figure this out?
he said:

1) examine everything carefully
2) hold fast to that which is good
3) abstain from every form of evil

he is clearly instructing people to know the difference between that which is good and that which is evil.
is this another way of saying figure it out?

1 Thessalonians 5:22
reject every kind of evil.

1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

John said:

1) do not believe every spirit
2) but test the spirits
3) to see whether they are from God
4) because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

is this another way of saying you better figure this out, people?

no where in the Bible did God ever say to figure it out. But he did say upteen times, to trust God in all things.

Proverbs 3:5
4So you will find favor and good repute In the sight of God and man. 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight

Proverbs 22:20
Have I not written thirty sayings for you, sayings of counsel and knowledge

Proverbs 22:17
Pay attention and turn your ear to the sayings of the wise; apply your heart to what I teach

are David or Solomon (through inspiration) speaking in tongues and we can't understand them without an interpreter?
isn't everthing always about being instructed in the ways of the Lord through what is written?

Galatians 6:7
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

paul is instructing here.
very serious matters.
is it done (through inspiration of the Holy Spirit) in a very clear manner, that we are supposed to understand and READ or HEAR about - from what The Holy Spirit had him WRITE?

are are we "not told anywhere to figure it out"?

is there, at any time, any instruction from the Holy Spirit that Christians are told they should turn off their brains to understand, or that they shouldn't figure out?

WHO is it that enlightens the mind and opnes up the Testimony of Jesus Christ to the believers?
is it the guy in the video?

or is it the Spirit?

will the Spirit ever lead people (who BY HIS OWN COMMISSION now desire to keep the words of Jesus) away from the teachings of Jesus.....exchanging them for incoherent noises, and disorder, and falling down?

 

[SarahM777]

1 Thessalonians 5:21
20do not despise prophetic utterances.
21But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;
22abstain from every form of evil.

did Paul say figure this out?
he said:

1) examine everything carefully
2) hold fast to that which is good
3) abstain from every form of evil

he is clearly instructing people to know the difference between that which is good and that which is evil.
is this another way of saying figure it out?

1 Thessalonians 5:22
reject every kind of evil.

1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

John said:

1) do not believe every spirit
2) but test the spirits
3) to see whether they are from God
4) because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

is this another way of saying you better figure this out, people?



Proverbs 3:5
4So you will find favor and good repute In the sight of God and man. 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight

Proverbs 22:20
Have I not written thirty sayings for you, sayings of counsel and knowledge

Proverbs 22:17
Pay attention and turn your ear to the sayings of the wise; apply your heart to what I teach

are David or Solomon (through inspiration) speaking in tongues and we can't understand them without an interpreter?
isn't everthing always about being instructed in the ways of the Lord through what is written?

Galatians 6:7
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

paul is instructing here.
very serious matters.
is it done (through inspiration of the Holy Spirit) in a very clear manner, that we are supposed to understand and READ or HEAR about - from what The Holy Spirit had him WRITE?

are are we "not told anywhere to figure it out"?

is there, at any time, any instruction from the Holy Spirit that Christians are told they should turn off their brains to understand, or that they shouldn't figure out?

WHO is it that enlightens the mind and opnes up the Testimony of Jesus Christ to the believers?
is it the guy in the video?

or is it the Spirit?

will the Spirit ever lead people (who BY HIS OWN COMMISSION now desire to keep the words of Jesus) away from the teachings of Jesus.....exchanging them for incoherent noises, and disorder, and falling down?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to zone again.

 

[Ugly]

Pretty ironic title. Considering most churches that allow tongues are in disobedience to scripture. Scripture states tongues should only be spoken in private, unless there is someone to translate, yet how many churches have their seats packed full of people 'speaking in tongues' all at once? And not one word is ever translated? Funny how people want to try to discredit others who don't share their view, but magically manage to miss the equally flawed actions going on in their own circles.

 

[zone]

lol sarah.

i'm just gobsmacked that this is even debatable!
how did this happen?

Jeremiah 7:25
From the time your ancestors left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets.

Jeremiah 25:4
And though the LORD has sent all his servants the prophets to you again and again, you have not listened or paid any attention.

Jeremiah 26:5
and if you do not listen to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I have sent to you again and again (though you have not listened),

Jeremiah 35:15
Again and again I sent all my servants the prophets to you. They said, "Each of you must turn from your wicked ways and reform your actions; do not follow other gods to serve them. Then you will live in the land I have given to you and your ancestors." But you have not paid attention or listened to me.

Jeremiah 44:4
Again and again I sent my servants the prophets, who said, 'Do not do this detestable thing that I hate!'


are the words of the prophets written down now?
why, would i EVER listen to someone today who claims to be a prophet that doesn't know what God ALREADY SAID.

what happens if we keep deciding that what is written down already in the Law & The Prophets & lastly through His Son & His apostles - teleios - is not sufficient?

is there a precendent in God's actions (in the OT while the prophets spoke His words verbatim) that should make us take notice? does He actually get involved with lying prophets and those who love them?

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.

1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.”

like.....do we really think He isn't looking?


Hebrews 1:2
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

*shi-ver*

 

[zone]

when Jesus, THE PROPHET, spoke so that people would not understand....did He speak in tongues?
or did He speak parables in known language(s)?

Matthew 21
The Parable of the Tenants
33“Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country. 34When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servantsc to the tenants to get his fruit. 35And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them. 37Finally he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.’ 39And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;d
this was the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”e

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them. 46And although they were seeking to arrest him, they feared the crowds, because they held him to be a prophet.

...

see, that's not unintelligible sounds that nobody understands.


Matthew 13:13
The Purpose of Jesus' Parables
12"For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14"In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;

if He said THIS, in known language(s), and He had it recorded forever, in known languages, and the purpose was because they refused previously to hear and understand...what on earth does all this other stuff suggest??

 

[presidente]

Pretty ironic title. Considering most churches that allow tongues are in disobedience to scripture. Scripture states tongues should only be spoken in private, unless there is someone to translate, yet how many churches have their seats packed full of people 'speaking in tongues' all at once? And not one word is ever translated? Funny how people want to try to discredit others who don't share their view, but magically manage to miss the equally flawed actions going on in their own circles.

I've addressed the topic of proper order regarding tongues. I am in favor of using tongues in an orderly manner. So are many, many churches where the gifts of tongues and interpretation operate.

If some churches speak in tongues but disobey the instructions about order, that doesn't make it right for other churches to disobey the passage and not allow speaking in tongues or prophesying.

I find it ironic that posters will object to disorderly tongues based on this passage, but their actual intention is to promote disobedience since they are opposed speaking in tongues with interpretation and prophesying in the meeting.

 

[presidente]

that's what the gift was.
but they didn't learn it.
it was a miracle.

you don't know that...because you have degraded the miracle.
made it into a joke.

with possibly eternal consequences.

Possible eternal consequences? I discuss these gifts based on the scriptures. I'd be more concerned with those who categorically condemn all manifestations of practices as being demonic that scriptures identify as gifts of the Spirit.

I can show you scripture for the idea that the speaker does not understand speaking in tongues. But you seem to think the speaker should know what it is.

where did you ever get the idea The Holy Spirit will ever direct anyone away from The Word, read and preached with clarity?
still don't get it, eh?

That's a straw man argument. Why do you think the Spirit would lead people away from the word? The Bible teaches that these spiritual gifts are real and that the Spirit gives them to members of the body of Christ. You are the one who has a problem with that idea.

if you wouldn't mind just posting those passages, we'll take a look.
you're so in error, it's painful to watch.

Which passages? I've posted numerous passages and you have yet to make a solid case for there being any error. Even many cessationists agree with my interpretation of the passages, even that I Corinthians 13 refers to the resurrection, though some try to apply it to death as well.

 

[presidente]

Zone, I love you but, I don't care what your men document say's. Tongues are biblical and reinforced by Paul. Stop looking at men and look to God and the scripture. I know what you have been taught and that is the most difficult thing to go against what you have been taught. But, Zone if you were not ignorant of this fact, you would be endanger of denying the Holy Spirit.

I'm not saying this to pass judgement on anyone, but where do you get the idea that someone has to have the Holy Spirit to 'deny' him. Denying may not be unpardonable. Was Peter denying that he knew Christ the same as blasphemy? You don't want to be denied before the Father, but it may not be the same sin.

Did Christ's opponents in Matthew 12 really have the Holy Spirit? And if they did not believe in Jesus, can you say they weren't ignorant? Christ told the Pharisees "because ye say 'we see' therefore your sin remaineth."

Christ taught that whoever speaks a word against the Spirit would not be forgiven. His words did not make an exception for the ignorant or for those who did not have the Spirit. Paul was a blasphemer who was forgiven because he did it in ignorance. But he did not say he blasphemed the Spirit, and Christ even said there was forgiveness for those who spoke against the Son of Man, but not for those who spoke against the Spirit.

 

[presidente]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God
and is profitable for doctrine

The scriptures are profitable for doctrine when it comes to spiritual gifts as well. If you believe I Corinthians is included in 'all scripture' then you should acknowledge that gifts like the working of miracles, divers tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophecy are given to the saints. You should accept the commandments of the Lord to covet to prophesy, to forbid not to speak with tongues, to let the prophets speak two or three.

It's foolishness to say we don't need to obey these commands to us because we have a copy of the commands now. That's like saying the Israelites were allowed to commit adultery because they got a copy of the Ten Commandments in stone.

for reproof
for correction
for instruction in righteousness

And those who despise prophesying stand corrected by scripture. Those who encourage disobedience to commands like 'let the prophets speak two or three' are to be reproved and corrected by scripture.

That the man of God may be perfect
throughly furnished
unto all good works.

If we want to be complete and thoroughly furnished, we need to let the word of God do it's work in us. We should not reject what the Lord has commanded us for our good. It is he that looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continueth therein that we are told shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[presidente]

Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. Did Jesus speak in tongues ? Always follow the example of the best.

Do you reject I Corinthians as being from the Lord? Should we reject the teaching of the apostles whom Christ sent?

Did Jesus 'repent'? Should we ignore that command?

The long version of Mark 16 says that they that believe shall speak with new tongues. Do you want to follow His example but ignore His words?

 

[notuptome]

Christ is being preached leave them alone as is what Christ said to his disciples, as they were wanting to stop those others from casting out demons and did not follow them. HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are we listening. God knows who God will save, Have Mercy on whom God chooses, not me, you or you or anyone else.
Even Paul stated there are those of envy and strife not sincere and those of sincerity, that he will glory in both, Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder why. Could it be that it is god that gives the increase. and I, you, and all that believe should realize we are nothing more than waterers and or planters
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Colossians 2:19 and not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Philippians 1:14-18

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]and many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]the one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]but the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18[/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

The whole point is that they too busy being "spiritually gifted" to be of any earthly value. Promoting gifts is not preaching the cross of Christ. It should be evident to even the casual observer reading through this thread.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

not the immature believer - the incomplete revelation of the scriptures, wherein God has NOW spoken - all is revealed...through which, everything needed is found.

making a mature church possible, and REQUIRED.

whose fault is it if you don't know that?

I agree with John Calvin, who depending on the translation called your interpretation 'stupid' or 'ignorant.'

We do not have such great knowledge know that our speech, knowledge, and understanding makes Paul's seem like a child in comparison. In the passage, he wrote of his own knowledge as an individual. Paul gives us some guidance on how to interpret this early in the book when he says 'so that ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.' The passage that follows discusses tongues and prophecy and then the resurrection of the believer at the coming of Christ when mortality puts on immortality.

1. There is nothing in the context that indicates he is talking about knowledge coming with a completed canon in I Corinthians 13.
2. The idea that he does mean that does not fit with the passage.
3. There is plenty of evidence elsewhere in the book that he has a later date in mind.

The only reason to see this idea in the passage is if you have an axe to grind and you need a straw to grasp at.

the Word & The Spirit are never directing away from each other.
if you have the Spirit, He will ALWAYS direct you to the Word.
and keep you in it.

That's the issue here, isn't it. The Bible teaches us certain things about spiritual gifts. Yet men's complicated and sometimes irrational 'theology' leads us away from what the word teaches.

 

[notuptome]

Do you reject I Corinthians as being from the Lord? Should we reject the teaching of the apostles whom Christ sent?

Did Jesus 'repent'? Should we ignore that command?

The long version of Mark 16 says that they that believe shall speak with new tongues. Do you want to follow His example but ignore His words?

Why do you wish to emulate a group that needed correction? Do you think it prudent to turn the Lords supper into a drunken bash? Do you think it pleases the Lord when professed believers co-habit in an incestuous relationship and are not ashamed?

The long ending of Mark 16 is questionable in its authenticity. Poor place to build doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

Jesus worked miracles to establish His authority as the Messiah promised to Israel. Even after all His miracles including raising the dead Jesus was rejected and crucified. The Apostles preached Christ and signs followed them to establish their authority as Apostles of Christ. People believe on Christ not because of signs but because the word of God goes forth and the Holy Spirit confirms it's authority as the word of God. The authority is in the word of God and evidenced by the Holy Spirit using it to change men's hearts. Bringing conviction of sin, righteousness and Gods judgment.

Thomas said except he saw he would not believe. Christ appeared to Him and told him to put his finger in His hands and his hand in His side, and be not faithless but believing. In Acts 13, the Sergius Paulus believed when he saw Elymas struck with blindness. Of course, he had heard the Gospel.

In every case the miracles and signs were to convince the Jews. Signs have never been for the Gentiles.

The Bible never teaches this and this idea is disproved from scripture. The Jews seek a sign, but that doesn't mean signs are only for Jews.

Acts 15
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

And read Exodus, too. Yahweh did a lot of things that showed Gentiles that He is Yahweh.

We as born again believers are servants to the extent that we are purchased by Christ. We are not our own. The only thing that a slave/servant does is serve his/her master. In essence your intrinsic value is that of a bond slave to Christ. You are here to contrast the darkness of this sinful world. You are to be light. Everything you say or do is to be for God's glory.

You seem to think that evangelism is the only way to serve God. That type of thinking can be bad for the church. It makes pastoral ministry basically worthless-- except as a means of getting other people to evangelize. It also can distract from the importance of personal holiness, community, and many other necessary aspects of church life that are a part of God's plan for the maturity of bride of Christ.

The bible I believe it's you that causes me to doubt. You see every passage from a skewed perspective and that worries me.

Skewed perspective? Take a look at the OP. It's pretty straightforward, based on what the passage actually says. I don't have to skew anything. It's the cessationists that skew things with long, complicated explanations that, in some cases, more studied cessationists reject.

 

[zone]

Zone, I love you but, I don't care what your men document say's. Tongues are biblical and reinforced by Paul. Stop looking at men and look to God and the scripture. I know what you have been taught and that is the most difficult thing to go against what you have been taught. But, Zone if you were not ignorant of this fact, you would be endanger of denying the Holy Spirit. But thank God you are not, because you do not understand, you must have the Holy Spirit in order to deny Him.You stand in contest with Paul and all of the Apostles. How did Paul convince Peter that the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit? I think that Martin Luther would smack you down if he could get his hands on you. He started this or atleast renewed it.

i'm not ignorant concerning this subject.

deny the Holy Spirit?

when are you guys going to come up with something better than THAT?

how do you know the stuff in that vid (and others) ARE FROM GOD? because you fell over or burbled in blah blah?

what.....does....that.....have to do with anything written about the Church?

so, your assertion is - i am not saved, since i don't have the Holy Spirit....because you have TO HAVE HIM TO DENY HIM?

please stop posting your own thoughts and mixing (deceptively) unrelated passages threatening the unpardonable sin.

post the passage exactly proving your claims in this one post by you.

NOTE: if LCMS goes Pentecostal-Charismatic, i'll be without a church.
i'll resign my membership, since my convictions will not allow for it.
the movement is not of God.

 

[notuptome]

Thomas said except he saw he would not believe. Christ appeared to Him and told him to put his finger in His hands and his hand in His side, and be not faithless but believing. In Acts 13, the Sergius Paulus believed when he saw Elymas struck with blindness. Of course, he had heard the Gospel.

Really? If folks are going to wait until they see Christ before they believe a lot of them are going to perish. Faith is not seen. Grace is received by faith. Christ acknowledged this to Thomas.

The Bible never teaches this and this idea is disproved from scripture. The Jews seek a sign, but that doesn't mean signs are only for Jews.

Acts 15
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

And read Exodus, too. Yahweh did a lot of things that showed Gentiles that He is Yahweh.

The passage in Acts 15 is the testimony of God before the council at Jerusalem that God was saving Gentiles. That passage supports exactly what I have been saying.

You seem to think that evangelism is the only way to serve God. That type of thinking can be bad for the church. It makes pastoral ministry basically worthless-- except as a means of getting other people to evangelize. It also can distract from the importance of personal holiness, community, and many other necessary aspects of church life that are a part of God's plan for the maturity of bride of Christ.

All things we do are for the purpose of evangelism. Telling the lost they must be saved or they will perish for eternity. Some will have a ministry of prayer, some of suffering but tongues and miracles are over. God ministers to our needs through His Spirit acting in concert with His word delivered to the saints.

Skewed perspective? Take a look at the OP. It's pretty straightforward, based on what the passage actually says. I don't have to skew anything. It's the cessationists that skew things with long, complicated explanations that, in some cases, more studied cessationists reject.

Nothing complicated about it. Tongues ceased. Tongues have always been seen as a sign of impending judgment upon the Jews. No good news comes by tongues. Guess it's up to you. Your lack of concern for souls is disconcerting.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

i'm not ignorant concerning this subject.

deny the Holy Spirit?

when are you guys going to come up with something better than THAT?

how do you know the stuff in that vid (and others) ARE FROM GOD? because you fell over or burbled in blah blah?

what.....does....that.....have to do with anything written about the Church?

so, your assertion is - i am not saved, since i don't have the Holy Spirit....because you have TO HAVE HIM TO DENY HIM?

please stop posting your own thoughts and mixing (deceptively) unrelated passages threatening the unpardonable sin.

post the passage exactly proving your claims in this one post by you.

NOTE: if LCMS goes Pentecostal-Charismatic, i'll be without a church.
i'll resign my membership, since my convictions will not allow for it.
the movement is not of God.

You wouldn't be alone Zone.

 

[zone]

You seem to think that evangelism is the only way to serve God. That type of thinking can be bad for the church. It makes pastoral ministry basically worthless-- except as a means of getting other people to evangelize. It also can distract from the importance of personal holiness, community, and many other necessary aspects of church life that are a part of God's plan for the maturity of bride of Christ.

serve God?
Christ came to serve.
the church is to serve THE SHEEP.
the pastoral office is one of SERVANT.

the church serves the LOST WORLD through the 2 great commands and the great commission.

You seem to think that speaking in tongues and prophecy is the only way to serve God. That type of thinking can be bad for the church. It makes what is written for us basically worthless-- except mishandling 1st Corinthians as a means of getting other people to speak in tongues and prophesy. It also can distract from the importance of personal holiness, community, and many other necessary aspects of church life that are a part of God's plan for the maturity of bride of Christ.