Where did anyone in the Bible get saved from speaking in tongues. In Acts 2, people in the crowd accused the apostles of being drunk when they heard speaking in tongues. It wasn't until Peter preached that people repented and were baptized. God hath chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
The crowd understood the Apostles in their own language. It's pretty clear.
I Corinthians 12 talks about an unbeliever or uninstructed person saying 'ye are mad' when he hears speaking in tongues. It was the genuine gift, but the reaction of unbelievers is described by the prophecy of Isaiah, "and yet for all that, ye will not hear Me."
Isaiah is talking about foreigners speaking other native languages, not people babbling incoherently.
He says nothing about keeping quiet in those verses. He only tells the tongues speaker to be quiet if there be no interpreter. These statements you are referring to are part of a longer argument leading up to the instructions in verses 27 and 28. He is giving the rational behind the instructions.
14 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
No one interprets today. Those who claim to interpret never can tell the difference in fake and real tongues. In fact many of them probably interpret even when it's fake, making them liars.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now, brothers,[SUP][
a][/SUP] if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [SUP]8 [/SUP]And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? [SUP]9 [/SUP]So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. [SUP]10 [/SUP]There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, [SUP]11 [/SUP]but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
The tongues being practiced at Corinth were not beneficial. Paul alludes them to to instruments without distinct sounds and that if they have no distinct sound, they aren't serving any purpose. He stresses here that the building of the church is what is important.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [SUP]15 [/SUP]What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider[SUP][
b][/SUP] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? [SUP]17 [/SUP]For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
Here Paul stresses that the tongues they were practicing did not help build the church and that it only edifies oneself. He just got through saying in the previous verses that the focus should be on building the church.You can pray all you want to interpret babbling, but you will never be able to unless you are lying. No one can even claim to tell the difference in fake tongues and real tongues. Why is this? Could it be because it's all faked and anyone who claims to interpret is a liar? I've talked to a lot of tongue speakers who admit to faking tongues, or "feel" like they are faking it. No one can ever tell the difference and call them out though. Why is this?
Basically, what I am seeing here is that your doctrine and your understanding of the Bible is dependent on your experiences or the lack thereof. You've never seen severely crippled people healed, so you have a problem with the idea that it happens or can happen.
I was in a Pentecostal church for 2 years. I've got a little experience. I have no problem with it being able to happen and I believe sometimes it has. Most of the time it's faked and has been proven faked by lack of evidence provided. Many have died who refused medical attention because of the lies of their pastors and the pastors blame it on the lack of faith of the one supposedly healed. Medical evidence against the actual healing has been ignored by those who believed they were healed. Is that a lack of faith? Plenty of testimonies and info out there. Look it up.
I have known some people to be healed. The first real experience with it that I can vouch for was when I was in 8th grade. I went to a Christian school affiliated with the church that I and most of the students went to. It was a large church of 3000 or so. There was an evangelist there ministering and praying for the sick. He walked a heavy lady out of a wheelchair. I was far away. I did not know her and I did not know if she could walk at all before this. The next day, though, I could see evidence of a supernatural healing. There was a girl in 9th grade who I'd seen many, many times, and she had severely crossed eyes and wore coke bottle type lenses. I heard she got healed when I was waiting for school in the morning. So I went over to talk with her. She said the evangelists laid hands on her and either prayed for her or told her to be healed in Jesus name and that's how her eyes were straightened. Her eyes looked normal, and she said she did not need her glasses.
I'm thinking of a testimony of a woman I knew in a wheelchair once. There was also the Indonesian evangelist whose head was cut 75% off. You could see the scar. The back was cut, not the front, by Mus. lims attacking the Bible college where he was at. He was originally considered dead. A well known preacher and medical doctor who had run for president laid hands on him and prayed for him. I don't have any medical records for these things. For most of these things, the best you'll get from a doctor is spontaneous remission. A lot of them don't want to put their reputations on the line, unless you get a Christian doctor who believes in miracles. I think there may be some of this type of information from doctors from an old Jack Coe case where they tried to prosecute him in Florida for ministering to the sick trying to apply a law against practicing medicine without a license for laying hands on the sick.
You were deceived. There are videos of those who have gone undercover into the leading faith healers services and those with real ailments are not allowed on stage, just those with borderline problems (i.e. partial blindness, partially wheelchair bound, etc.). Someone with pure blindness or is completely crippled is not allowed near the stage and are stopped by security. Info is gathered from people by church workers posing as regular people coming to hear the sermon from those there for healing so it seems as if the pastor has divine knowledge of the person. This also serves the purpose of screening for those who can be seemingly healed to those who the pastor would not be able to fake it with. Plenty of info out there if you wanna look it up. The rest are just under a spell of religious hysteria, the need to feel something, and are just all around deceived.
Demons can fake signs.
9
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10
and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing,
because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11
Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12
in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I recommend you and others heed the warnings.
I don't know these people, but I've seen a few videos, and this seems to be a pretty well documented healing, since the lady is a pastor's wife and a Gospel singer, and you can even see videos of her when she was unable to walk but was a singer.
Lady Delia Knox Healing Touch from God! - YouTube
I'll take a look, thanks for the link.
What has been debunked? I would imagine the leading person in this arena as far as crowds go is Reinhart Bonnke. How has he been debunked? He and other folks like Benny Hinn tell people in the crowd to believe God for a miracle. How has Hinn been 'debunked'. Sure, you can post problems with his doctrine, but does that mean no one gets healed? He just has people come up on stage and say God healed them, and he asks them some really light questions that don't really inquire much about how they are healed.
I know people have claimed to be healed, one guy of the incurable type of diabetes. I haven't seen him since, but I know his friends and my brother went to church with him and they told me the story. He went to a crusade. His church friends prayed for him, and he stopped taking his insulin. They told him not to, but he believed he was healed. He was apparently healed. He didn't die during that time. But then he pigged out so bad he got borderline diabetes. I've seen this guy eat before, and the story made sense to me because of that.
I was at a big crusade when I was young, and before it started, people would pray for the sick. You'd see someone running at the bottom of the arena and people nearby clapping hands or raising praising God. But it was so far I couldn't see it. There was a little old lady on oxygen in my section, and ushers and attendees laid hands on her praying. She stood raising her hands without her oxygen, and people in my section clapped. I wasn't satisfied with that. The evangelist did not really inquire deeply about illnesses when people got healed there, either. (Like "could you actually walk without this wheelchair before you got here?"). So I decided to go talk to her. I told her I wanted to hear her testimony about her healing. I hadn't seen her come in, but the person sitting next to me had seen her hobble down there with people helping her take the oxygen tank. She looked 85 or 90 years old to me. We talked. She said she couldn't have a heart transplant, the doctor's said, because of her emphazema. She showed me a doctor's letter. She couldn't go for more than a few seconds without oxygen before, and it was hard to walk down the stairs. So I asked her if she wanted to try walking up the stairs without oxygen. I escorted her up and down stairs. People clapped.
You have been deceived. There is plenty of evidence against every well known faith healer debunking them. Look it up.
I dunno Reinhard Bonnke but he seems to be a top guy on the false signs and wonders movement. I'll look into what he does though because apparently he has claimed to raise people from the dead. Words are cheap, so the "so and so told me" or "I heard about so and so" really doesn't cut it for me.
