A brother from Nairobi, Kenya shares his conviction about the Bible Version Issue

[Agricola]

Forgive my ignorance, but how radically different is the KJV compared to your bible of choice?

I'm genuinely intrigued how different bibles can cause such a divide

Depends who you ask. Obviously the members of King James Only cult will be foaming at the mouth and boiling with rage as they claim the King James of 1611 is the final perfect Bible.

HOwever, the diferences between King James, NIV and most other Bibles is negligent. There are obviously some minor translation differences, but they do not detract from the main message.

OF course most seasoned Christians already know to use at least two Bible versions side by side when doing a study in order to get a better picture. I use King James and NIV.

Yet again I will point out I have nothing against the King James, I think its brilliant, I just have issues with the King James Only Cult and thier ridiculous claims.

 

[Agricola]

You will give cult members a heart attack if they read this!

 

[santuzza]

APebbleThrown, it's not so much that there are differences in the Bible translations, but the insistence by the KJV only cult that the KJV is the only truly inspired word of God that is the sticking point.

 

[danschance]

Forgive my ignorance, but how radically different is the KJV compared to your bible of choice?

I'm genuinely intrigued how different bibles can cause such a divide

I really doubt the division is the result of translation issues. The KJV ONLY cult hates all and every English translation except the KJV.

It's kind of like this: If I say I hate all blue eyed persons, would you then wonder what is wrong with blue eyed people or the one who hates the blue eyed people?

 

[iamsoandso]

we take one bible and compare it to the Greek and Hebrew,others thumb through but cant follow along,,,,

 

[Agricola]

I really doubt the division is the result of translation issues. The KJV ONLY cult hates all and every English translation except the KJV.

It's kind of like this: If I say I hate all blue eyed persons, would you then wonder what is wrong with blue eyed people or the one who hates the blue eyed people?

I stopped short of making such a comparison, but now you have opened this tin of worms, then well lets go the whole Hog. There was a leader of Germany called Hitler, who came up with his idea of The Aryan Master Race. Only pure bred Germans were perfect, all other humans were not. Most other ethnic groups such as Jews were sub humans who needed to be exterminated.

Although we are talking about a cult and its worship of the King James Bible, the ideaology is still the same as Hitler. I can not be bothered wading through all of ChosenbyHim posts, but he is on record by saying it would be a good thing if all Bibles, and religious texts and scrolls other than the King James of 1611 are destroyed and no trace of them exist. This of course includes all the Torahs etc which date back thousands of years.



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[Praus]

Well first off Danschance, the King James Bible is actually easier to read than a lot of the new versions according to the Flesh-Kincaid Grade Reading Level Indicator. The King James Bible uses mainly 1 to 2 syllable words while the Vatican versions use 3 and 4 syllable words. So get your facts straight.

Mingled people (Jer. 25:20) from the nethermost (1 Kings 6:6) ate snuffdishes (Ex. 25:38) and palmerworm (Joel 1:4) every quarternion (Acts 12:4). Their sheepcote (2 Sam. 7:8) were in shambles (1 Cor. 10:25). Naught (Prov. 20:14) to worry. We outwent (Mk. 6:33) to bewray (Isa. 16:3) the breeches (Ex. 28:42) with putrifying sores (Isa. 1:6) on the sackbut (Dan 3:5).

Beeves (Lev. 22:19) armholes (Jer. 38:12) and emerods (Deut. 28:27) canker (2 Tim. 2:17) the bald locust (Lev. 11:22) before horseleach (Prov. 30:15) broilered (Ex. 28:4) the calves of our lips (Hos. 14:2) and cast the same in his teeth (Mt. 27:44) burning ague (Lev. 26:16) and chalkstones (Isa. 27:9)! Besom (Isa. 14:23) liers (Josh. 8:14) girt (2 Kings 1:8) the hasty fruit (Isa. 28:4) while lapwing (Lev. 11:19) helve (Deut. 19:5) the hindmost (Num. 2:31) apothecary (Ex. 30:25). The ambushment (2 Chron. 13:13) cauls (Isa. 3:18) chapiter (1 Kings 7:16) from ambassage (Lk. 14:32) and his flesh pots (Ex. 16:3) freckled spot (Lev. 13:39) the mallows (Job 30:4). Then nergal (2 Kings 17:30) mufflers (Isa. 3:19) astonied (Ezra 9:4) the farthing (Mt. 5:26) flagons (Isa. 22:24) mincing (Isa. 3:16) mete (Ex. 16:18), maw (Deut. 18:3) and assupim (1 Chron. 26:15). Afterwards the college (2 Kings 22:14) oil tree (Isa. 41:19) was neesings (Job 41:18), plaiting (1 Pet. 3:3) pleasant plants (Isa. 17:10) and rereward (Number 10:25) ribband (Num. 15:38).

Moreover, the portray (Ezek. 4:1) bloody flux (Acts 28:8) botch (Deut. 28:27) his ossifrage (Lev. 11:13) while the pommels (2 Chron. 4:12) pygarg (Deut. 14:5) his victual (Ex. 12:39). Waxed rich (Rev. 18:3) caused a tender eyed (Gen. 29:17) unicorn (Numbers 23:22) to spikenard (Mark 14:3) the sabaoth (Rom. 9:29) the same time a cankerworm (Joel 1:4) cheek teeth (Joel 1:6) the exactors (Isa. 60:17). But that’s not all! The crisping pins (Isa. 3:22) fell out of the chamois (Dt. 14:5) fray (Jer. 7:33) engines (Ezek. 26:9) and succour (Heb. 2:18) the malefactor (John 18:30) into the lily work (1 Kings 7:19)!

For those who think this is but succothbenoth (2 Kings 17:30), vain janglings (1 Tim. 1:6) and superfluity of naughtiness (James 1:21), winefat (Isa. 63:2) and wist (Joshua 8:14) will unstopped (Isa. 35:5). Trow (Luke 17:9) the wreathen (Ex. 28:14) and gay clothing (James 2:3) over the clift (Ex. 33:32) and churl (Isa. 32:5) the checker work (1 Kings 7:17) down the firepans (2 Kings 25:15) and on hungerbitten (Job 18:12) hoar frost (Ex. 16:14). The latchet (Mark 1:7) to the lowering (Mt. 16:3) has occurrent (1 Kings 5:4) and even munition (Isa. 29:7). The mortar (Num. 11:8) pavement (Esther 1:6) is below the almug (1 Kings 10:12) and pressfat (Hag. 2:16) the sheaf (Gen. 37:7). Understandeth what thou readeth?

So if you want to continue in your error of supporting the Vatican and their modern corupt bibles like the NIV, ESV, NASB, etc. Well then that's your choice.

None of those are Vatican-approved Bibles.

http://www.usccb.org/bible/approved-translations/

USCCB Approved Translations of the Sacred Scriptures for Private Use and Study by Catholics

1983 - Present

The 1983 Code of Canon Law entrusts to the Apostolic See and the episcopal conferences the authority to approve translations of the Sacred Scriptures in the Latin Catholic Church (c. 825, §1). Prior to 1983, Scriptural translations could be approved by the Apostolic See or by a local ordinary within a diocese.

What follows is a complete list of the translations of the Sacred Scriptures that have received the approval of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops since 1983.

In addition to the translations listed below, any translation of the Sacred Scriptures that has received proper ecclesiastical approval ‒ namely, by the Apostolic See or a local ordinary prior to 1983, or by the Apostolic See or an episcopal conference following 1983 ‒ may be used by the Catholic faithful for private prayer and study.

Books of the New Testament, Alba House
Contemporary English Version - New Testament, First Edition, American Bible Society
Contemporary English Version - Book of Psalms, American Bible Society
Contemporary English Version - Book of Proverbs, American Bible Society
The Grail Psalter (Inclusive Language Version), G.I.A. Publications
New American Bible, Revised Edition (NABRE)
New Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition, National Council of Churches
The Psalms, Alba House
The Psalms (New International Version) - St. Joseph Catholic Edition, Catholic Book Publishing Company
The Psalms - St. Joseph New Catholic Version, Catholic Book Publishing Company
Revised Psalms of the New American Bible (1991)
So You May Believe, A Translation of the Four Gospels, Alba House
Today's English Version, Second Edition, American Bible Society
Translation for Early Youth, A Translation of the New Testament for Children, Contemporary English Version, American Bible Society

But when you answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ, you won't be able to say that you did not know any better.

We don't know any better because you refuse to answer even the most basic questions about the Authorized Version ...

And in regard to 1 Corinthians 15:6, again I do not have an answer.

... even though your information is directly from God.

http://christianchat.com/member.php?u=103116

"I am very thankful that He opened my eyes to His precious word, the King James Bible. And also to the Bible Version Issue."



KJV-only is not from God, it's Satanic and deliberately designed to lead Christians away from understanding the Bible and developing a relationship with Jesus Christ.

God is always right. And so is His word.

You've already made false and contradictory statements in order to defend you KJV-only position.

If you can't defend KJV-only honestly it's because it's a false teaching. Why not deal with false teaching instead of the TBS's "reasoning"?

Let's look at 1 Cor 15:6, again:

1 Cor 15:6 And that hee was seene of aboue fiue hundred brethren at once: of whom the greater part remaine vnto this present, but some are fallen asleepe. (KJV/1611)

1 Cor 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. (KJV/PCE)

You haven't responded yet, instead of admitting that your original position is false, you suggest that I'm straining at a gnat. Why not define "pure and perfect" for us, because so far it's a moving target, from the "text doesn't change other than spelling and printing errors" to "the meaning doesn't change". This is the exact same allegation that you make against the modern Bible translators.

Only changed the topic again, rather than deal with the original false assertion.

The Holy Spirit doesn't write falsehoods about the Bible. Please clarify the nature of the original false assertion regarding text changes first, then we'll continue.

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV/PCE)

And in regard to 1 Corinthians 15:6, again I do not have an answer.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Well, as I have advocated here and throughout my Christian life, it's best to use a mixture of translations. When one is murky, read all the others, and, for the most part, the murkiness disappears. But to say that one translation is "definitive" is misleading at best and heresy at worst.

Santuzza, the new versions contain heresies in them. How do you get the truth when you are going to a bible that has been corrupted? The new versions are based on a totally different Greek text.

It is not good to use the modern versions. The new versions contain an error in the very first verse of Genesis.

In Genesis 1:1, the King James Bible says that:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1 (King James Bible)

The heaven that was created in Genesis 1:1, was the universe and galaxies. The first heaven which is the atmosphere of the earth was created in Genesis 1:6-8.


Now look at what the new versions do in Genesis 1:1:


New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New Living Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created theheavens and the earth.


And nearly all the new versions make this subtil change.


Therefore, the new versions contain an error in the very first of Genesis, hence, the new versions turn Genesis 1:1 into a lie.


In Isaiah 14:12, is where we learn the name of Satan before he fell. And his name was Lucifer before his fall. And the King James Bible identifies the devil's identity prior to the fall.

On the contrary, the corrupt modern bible perversions take out Lucifer and replace it with either morning star or day star. Both those titles (morning star and day star) are titles for the Lord Jesus Christ. So according to the new vatican versions, it was not Lucifer who fell, but it was Jesus Christ who fell from heaven.

That one example alone should cause any Christian to be greatly disturbed. Because that corruption which I just showed you Santuzza is a satanic corruption. It is utter blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.


So again, it is not good to use the modern translations. They are perversions. They are satanic counterfeits. If you want the truth, then get yourself a King James Bible. Get that blessed Book with the thee's and the thou's. Amen.

 

[jimmydiggs]

And nearly all the new versions make this subtil change.

That must be some of that KJV english coming out of ya.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

DIsgusting filthy lies. Your cult is evil and spreads fear. This will only bring worry and fear to vulnerable, weak and easily mislead, this is evil and wicked thing to be telling Christians, but obviously Satan loves it.

Fortunately most people can see your cult is from Satan, but like most false movements and branches of Christianity, it has many people flocking to it. Deluded fools, the lot of them.

No Agricola, it is the truth. When your shown the truth of an issue. Especially one that is as important as the Bible Version Issue, concerning pure and perfect word. You can be assured that we all will give account of how we regarded God's holy word. Be assured of that.

The very fact that the changes that the new versions doesn't bother or disturb you should actually cause you to examine yourself. Any Christian that sees the changes and corruptions that the new versions make should not causally and nonchalantly shrug them off. And sadly that is what a lot of modern day professing Christians do. When they hear the Bible Version Issue and are shown the errors contained in the modern versions, they just shrug it off like if it is no big deal. How unfortunate. How truly sad that is. If a person has the Holy Spirit abiding in them, these changes should at least cause a Christian to be disturbed.

And Agricola, if you don't think that perversion of Scripture is being done today well then you lack spiritual discernment. Are you aware that even in Paul's time, they were corrupting the word of God? At the time when the apostle Paul was still writing the Scriptures, you had people even back in his time who were corrupting the word of God.


17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 2:17 (King James Bible)



Now of course the modern versions also had to corrupt and change this verse as well, so that they could hide their sin:


New International Version
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

New Living Translation
You see, we are not like the many hucksters who preach for personal profit. We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ's authority, knowing that God is watching us.

English Standard Version
For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

New American Standard Bible
For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.

 

[Agricola]

Yes clear as mud to most. I am used to reading old documents and familiar with the styles, archaic spelling and the letters, S look like F, I posted an original exposition from the 17th century on Psalm 23, one woman emailed me bitterly angry and disgusted for posting a disgusting disgraceful thing that was far from edifying to God.

I am Woah, whats wrong with this? I the contacted her and she asked me why the F word was used a lot. I am like, what? Turns out she did not realise that the letter S was shaped like F back then, so she read the word suck as .... you know what and if you don't know, then GOd bless you for having a pure mind!

Here is the 1 Cor 15:6 in original 17th Century

 

[Agricola]

No Agricola, it is the truth. When your shown the truth of an issue. Especially one that is as important as the Bible Version Issue, concerning pure and perfect word. You can be assured that we all will give account of how we regarded God's holy word. Be assured of that.

The very fact that the changes that the new versions doesn't bother or disturb you should actually cause you to examine yourself. Any Christian that sees the changes and corruptions that the new versions make should not causally and nonchalantly shrug them off. And sadly that is what a lot of modern day professing Christians do. When they hear the Bible Version Issue and are shown the errors contained in the modern versions, they just shrug it off like if it is no big deal. How unfortunate. How truly sad that is. If a person has the Holy Spirit abiding in them, these changes should at least cause a Christian to be disturbed.

And Agricola, if you don't think that perversion of Scripture is being done today well then you lack spiritual discernment. Are you aware that even in Paul's time, they were corrupting the word of God? At the time when the apostle Paul was still writing the Scriptures, you had people even back in his time who were corrupting the word of God.


17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 2:17 (King James Bible)



Now of course the modern versions also had to corrupt and change this verse as well, so that they could hide their sin:


New International Version
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

New Living Translation
You see, we are not like the many hucksters who preach for personal profit. We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ's authority, knowing that God is watching us.

English Standard Version
For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

New American Standard Bible
For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.

Repeating the same thing over and over again dosnt make it right. I also notice you skirt around the faults in your Cults teaching and ignore the rest, just like a good cultist does.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Repeating the same thing over and over again dosnt make it right. I also notice you skirt around the faults in your Cults teaching and ignore the rest, just like a good cultist does.

Well the truth bears repeating so that way, you, and others are without excuse. And yep you are without excuse Agricola. Just like the others who defend these modern satanic bibles and attack the King James Bible.

And I will continue to share the truth. Whether you like it or not.

 

[Agricola]

Any Christian that sees the changes and corruptions that the new versions make should not causally and nonchalantly shrug them off. And sadly that is what a lot of modern day professing Christians do. When they hear the Bible Version Issue and are shown the errors contained in the modern versions, they just shrug it off like if it is no big deal. How unfortunate. How truly sad that is.If a person has the Holy Spirit abiding in them, these changes should at least cause a Christian to be disturbed.

How Dare you... This is disgusting thing to say. Why do you continue to cause doubt in Christians minds, you are wicked for doing this, this is not God at work, this is Satan.

I have known the Holy Spirit for over 30 years and so far Holy Spirit has indicated nothing to me about this so called issue. You are bang out of order, disgraceful behaviour, really is.

 

[Agricola]

Well the truth bears repeating so that way, you, and others are without excuse. And yep you are without excuse Agricola. Just like the others who defend these modern satanic bibles and attack the King James Bible.

And I will continue to share the truth. Whether you like it or not.

Satans truth yes. Not Gods. Your cult is satanic.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

How Dare you... This is disgusting thing to say. Why do you continue to cause doubt in Christians minds, you are wicked for doing this, this is not God at work, this is Satan.

I have known the Holy Spirit for over 30 years and so far Holy Spirit has indicated nothing to me about this so called issue. You are bang out of order, disgraceful behaviour, really is.

Well I am speaking the truth sir. I am not trying to hurt your feelings, I am trying to help you to think. Think and consider what has already been shown regarding this issue. Is not something that you just shrug off nonchalantly. We are talking about God's holy word here. The changes in the modern versions, and a lot of them are attacks on the Lord Jesus Christ's deity, should cause a genuine Christian to be disturbed, or at least concerned. The Holy Spirit must be grieved with a lot of what is going on in Christianity today. And when Christians don't show the ounce bit of concern for God's word, well that must also be grieving to the Holy Spirit. He wrote the Book.

 

[Agricola]

Well I am speaking the truth sir. I am not trying to hurt your feelings, I am trying to help you to think. Think and consider what has already been shown regarding this issue. Is not something that you just shrug off nonchalantly. We are talking about God's holy word here. The changes in the modern versions, and a lot of them are attacks on the Lord Jesus Christ's deity, should cause a genuine Christian to be disturbed, or at least concerned. The Holy Spirit must be grieved with a lot of what is going on in Christianity today. And when Christians don't show the ounce bit of concern for God's word, well that must also be grieving to the Holy Spirit. He wrote the Book.

They dont attack the diety of Christ, is a conspiracy made up in your head, just as people really beleive lizards are ruling the planet and we never landed on the moon. You continually ignore the constructive points made to you, you are a brainwashed cult member who can not see past your cults teachings.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

that is an assertion this cultist continues to make even after being shown that it is the roman catholic church that was responsible of the base text of the king james version...

Wrong Rachel.

In the 27th edition of the Nestle Aland, right in their introduction, the men and editors behind this critical Greek text tell us in their very own words the purpose for this edition. On page 45, they write:


"The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to interconfessional relationships. It should naturally be understood that this text is a working text: it is not to be considered as definitive, but as a stimulus to further efforts toward defining and verifying the text of the New Testament."



Hence, the editors openly admit that this critical Greek text is a result of an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies.

How clear does the evidence have to be? I mean facts are facts.

It is right there for you to see. Also note that they say that the text is not definitive. Which means that they can change it and amend it whenever they wish to. And of course their text has been changing, and will only continue to.

And that is why the text of the modern versions like the NASB and ESV are constantly being changed and revised.


Check out some of the extensive work and documentation brother Will Kinney has done on this issue. It is incredible.


The so called "Science" of modern textual criticism is not even a science at all. It is just wicked men who are changing and perverting the words of God.

 

[Praus]

It is not good to use the modern versions. The new versions contain an error in the very first verse of Genesis.

In Genesis 1:1, the King James Bible says that:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1 (King James Bible)
The heaven that was created in Genesis 1:1, was the universe and galaxies. The first heaven which is the atmosphere of the earth was created in Genesis 1:6-8.

Therefore, the new versions contain an error in the very first of Genesis, hence, the new versions turn Genesis 1:1 into a lie.

The Douay-Rheims-Challoner 1899 American Edition Bible is officially approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for use "by the Catholic faithful for private prayer and study. "

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. (DRA)

So the King James Bible agrees with the Catholic Bible and the modern translations don't.

In Isaiah 14:12, is where we learn the name of Satan before he fell. And his name was Lucifer before his fall. And the King James Bible identifies the devil's identity prior to the fall.

On the contrary, the corrupt modern bible perversions take out Lucifer and replace it with either morning star or day star. Both those titles (morning star and day star) are titles for the Lord Jesus Christ. So according to the new vatican versions, it was not Lucifer who fell, but it was Jesus Christ who fell from heaven.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? (DRA)

So the King James Bible agrees with the Catholic Bible and the modern translations don't.

That one example alone should cause any Christian to be greatly disturbed. Because that corruption which I just showed you Santuzza is a satanic corruption. It is utter blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.

So again, it is not good to use the modern translations. They are perversions. They are satanic counterfeits. If you want the truth, then get yourself a King James Bible. Get that blessed Book with the thee's and the thou's. Amen.

Isa 14:11 Thy pride is brought down to hell, thy carcass is fallen down: under thee shall the moth be strewed, and worms shall be thy covering. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? (DRA)

So the King James Bible agrees with the Catholic Bible and the modern translations don't.

 

[Praus]

The changes in the modern versions, and a lot of them are attacks on the Lord Jesus Christ's deity, should cause a genuine Christian to be disturbed, or at least concerned. The Holy Spirit must be grieved with a lot of what is going on in Christianity today. And when Christians don't show the ounce bit of concern for God's word, well that must also be grieving to the Holy Spirit. He wrote the Book.

I'm concerned that in John 1:18 and 2 Peter 1:1 the NIV says Jesus Christ is God and the KJV doesn't.

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (NIV)

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]. (KJV)

2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, / To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: (NIV)

2 Pet 1:1 ¶ Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: