The Lord's Recovery aka The Local Church

[Loveneverfails]

Hello everyone,

I'm curious if anyone here knows anything or has any experience regarding the Lord's Recovery movement aka "The local Church".

What I do know is that for decades they've been viewed by western evangelicals as a cult, but within the last decade several misunderstandings have been cleared up and they have been somewhat reluctantly accepted as "mainstream" Christianity.

I have personal reasons for wanting to find out more about this church, which I might elaborate on later.

After personal research (including spending time with them) it seems that this church is very genuine and seems to match up on what I consider the core elements of Christianity. However, a few red flags arise. One is the way they follow the teachings of one of their "founding fathers". I know that plenty of other Christians might subscribe to the teachings of various theologians but the vibe I'm getting from TLR is that the teachings of this founding father are *almost* as important as scripture, and I don't ever see people questioning him. There are also a set of rules and traditions that are potentially good and beneficial to one's spiritual walk but not *necessary*, however they are treated as though they are absolutely necessary and that everyone must do them.

For the most part, I am confident that these lovely people are my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but I think I'm starting to understand why they were misunderstood as a cult in previous generations.

So to anyone who has any experience or knowledge of this church, have you made similar observations? I'd love to hear any and all respectful opinions.

 

[Bookreader]

I should imagine that the reason other orthodox churches lied about them was that they do not agree with a clergy-laity distinction. And nothing will get up a clergyman's nose more than someone that shows he isn't needed...

As far as I can see they stick to the common orthodox creeds (many of which I, personally, disbelieve) and so there is not likely to be any significant doctrinal difference with a number of other churches.
I haven't picked up on the adherence to considering the works of their founders as extra-special. I guess that one might only find out from attending their meeting.

 

[Ariel82]

mmm would have to research this Witness Lee person and his movement......

their website:
Local Church Movement, Lord's Recovery Movement, or The Move of God?


Others comments on the movement:

Local Church : Lord's Recovery, Living Stream Ministry

http://www.tbaptist.com/clientimages/48350/challengerarticles/thedangerofwitnessleebooks.pdf

http://www.hidinghistoryinthelordsrecovery.us/AHistoryoftheLordsRecoveryinUS.pdf

So this is what I found but haven't had a chance to read yet. maybe it will help you in your research and quest for Truth.

 

[Bookends]

I had a bible study with a member of this church. I broke if off after a year because we didn't agree enough of the secondary issues and doctrines of some stuff. I think they teach some off the wall stuff, some things I didn't agree with are:

1. All other protestant Churches are off the coarse or apostate. They are "THEE Local Church" the overcomers.
2. They mix easy-believism with Lordship salvation. What I mean by this, that anyone can be born-again by calling on the Lord (Witness Lee said 3xs calling on the Lord will save you, one of his early ministry magazines). However, in order to become an overcomer (one who overcomes the flesh and walks in the Spirit will be rewarded in a 1000 yr millennium, all other Christians will be punished during a 1000 yrs receiving their lashes, a type of purgatory). It's a two class Christian system whereas Christians who remain babes in their faith aren't called "sons of God" until they finish God's purging of their sin in this 1000 millennium while the overcomes will reign with Jesus here on earth, and be put in charge of cities etc...After the 1000 yr millennium all Christians will be equal in the new eternal state.
3. reciting "OH LORD JESUS" over and over fills you with His Spirit.
4. You have to believe or use the materials that LSM (Living Streams Ministries) put out, which only consists of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee's material. At one time Witness Lee, while he was alive, wanted all the Church to buy all their material from him and LSM. I am not sure if they still hold 100%, but they still uphold his work commentaries in high regard.
5. The Lord can only come again when His Church is fully matured and this will bring on the 2nd advent (by what standard of measurement they use to determine this is beyond me).
6. They are known to have burnings of personal things to demonstrate your loyalty to Christ (not sure they do this anymore).

I'm sure I can come up with more stuff on this group, I did an intense study on them, But I'm short on time atm. There is a web forum with ex-Lord's Recovery members who support one another, for under the structure of Witness Lee many Christians where misled and hurt. I describe them as an orthodox Church with cult like practices. You may want to read a book by an ex-member of this Church called "The Thread of God" by Jane Carole Anderson, its a good read, it's a bio of her life in the LC in the 1970-80s. ONE THING Witness Lee GOT RIGHT, was his emphasis on ENJOYING the LORD.

Let me know if you want more info. on them...

 

[Bookends]

I believe you can download an electronic copy of the book, "The Thread of Gold" at Jane's website:
The Thread of Gold: God's Purpose, the Cross, and Me--A Journey Through the Local Church of Witness Lee

Some more info:
The False Gospel of Witness Lee and the Living Stream Ministries | Contrast

 

[Loveneverfails]

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to respond. I very much appreciate it!

Bookends, thank you especially for your more detailed elaboration on the subject.

I've been attending the weekly youth/young adults meeting at one "local church" lately, with a respectful but skeptical mindset. I don't want to be overly critical, but I'm trying to hold up everything against scripture and see how it matches up.

In response to your listed observations:
1) I just started noticing this. There has been no direct claim that they are superior, but just by listening to their own personal jargon, I get a sense of exclusivity.. Like they are the only true Christians. To be fair, I think the same can be said of other churches/denominations.
2) yikes. I know there's a huge emphasis on calling on the name of The Lord but that bit about the millennium sends up huge red flags. I'm going to research that more.
3) this is one of those "potentially beneficial but not necessary" habits that I mentioned in my first post. I understand that there are many places in scripture that exhort us to call on the name of The Lord.. But they way this church goes about makes it feel very ritualistic.
4)I addressed this in my first post. This bothers me. A lot. It screams of cult-like control.
5) haven't learned this yet. I'll do more research.
6) um, yikes.

I would love to hear your other discoveries about this church, whenever you have the time. For now I'll start by downloading the book you linked. Thank you for the resources!

 

[Bookends]

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to respond. I very much appreciate it!

Bookends, thank you especially for your more detailed elaboration on the subject.

I've been attending the weekly youth/young adults meeting at one "local church" lately, with a respectful but skeptical mindset. I don't want to be overly critical, but I'm trying to hold up everything against scripture and see how it matches up.

In response to your listed observations:
1) I just started noticing this. There has been no direct claim that they are superior, but just by listening to their own personal jargon, I get a sense of exclusivity.. Like they are the only true Christians. To be fair, I think the same can be said of other churches/denominations.
2) yikes. I know there's a huge emphasis on calling on the name of The Lord but that bit about the millennium sends up huge red flags. I'm going to research that more.
3) this is one of those "potentially beneficial but not necessary" habits that I mentioned in my first post. I understand that there are many places in scripture that exhort us to call on the name of The Lord.. But they way this church goes about makes it feel very ritualistic.
4)I addressed this in my first post. This bothers me. A lot. It screams of cult-like control.
5) haven't learned this yet. I'll do more research.
6) um, yikes.

I would love to hear your other discoveries about this church, whenever you have the time. For now I'll start by downloading the book you linked. Thank you for the resources!

1. Yes, I agree, which is why I steer clear of all those you claim they are the true Church, including the King James only folks.
2-3. Yes, calling on the name of the Lord is biblical, and I do it when I feel it necessary, for example when I feel tempted to sin or when I need His help in my own trials and tribulations, and in praising him. However I feel that their method of calling on the Lord's name repetitive and without real cause, which in my mind is taking His name in vain.

This group doesn't allow or didn't allow for their members to celebrate the holidays (Christmas, Easter, birthdays etc. etc.) with their biological families, which broke up many close relationships. I don't like the way the world celebrates these holidays either, but the meaning behind the holidays is what needs to be emphasized and used as a springboard to present the Gospel to others.

It is good that you are aware of these potential problems. And that said, I don't believe this group unorthodox and I think they have some biblical truths to offer, for example: 1. enjoyment of the Lord through eating and drinking (study, meditation and prayer) but I don't think you should clear and empty your mind of critical thinking and reason, 2. their non-clergy policy attracted me (but they still have a head elder), pastors and elders should have an attitude of service, not one of control, 3. everyone can and should prophesy in the Church (not in the sense of portraying the future, but of edification, enlightenment, instruction, and reproof from the Word of God). Sitting in a pew and just hearing one man preach doesn't allow for all to prophesy (which is one of the reason I attend a Sunday morning bible class and Wednesday night bible study group). That being said, I also think it necessary to have a person who is dedicated to the full time study of the Word to give a proper presentation and exegesis of the Word.

May the Spirit of God led you.

 

[Bookends]

Here is a link to a forum of ex LR movement and LSM Church members goto for support and expression: Local Church Discussions

Before warned, you can spend a lot of time reading their posts and comments.

 

[europanz]

I am in the church.. no one has ever interfered with my family life or told me not to celebrate holidays with my relatives. Re speaking in the meetings.."each one has"..we can all function and we should all function.We can all study the word. We can all speak. We can all pray.

 

[europanz]

This site is the best site Living Stream Ministry - Online Publications excellent life studies!

 

[Bookends]

This site is the best site Living Stream Ministry - Online Publications excellent life studies!

Why is that the best site? Does LSM have all the light?

 

[Bookends]

Europanz, would you agree with this statement: In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity?

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity by Mark Ross | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org

 

[zone]

I should imagine that the reason other orthodox churches lied about them was that they do not agree with a clergy-laity distinction. And nothing will get up a clergyman's nose more than someone that shows he isn't needed...

oh this old hobby horse.
no clergy needed...ya right!
take it up with Jesus and the Apostles!

what an insult to the Church Jesus founded.
He placed under-shepherds to watch over and tend His flock.
they are servants.

 

[zone]

Testimonies Against the Unholy Trinity of Witness Lee, The Local Church and Living Stream Ministry
Jim Moran's website submissions and the Leeist Letters

Testimonies Against Witness Lee, The Local Church and LSM < click

sorry if someone already posted this.

C-U-L-T

 

[zone]

Watchman Nee - Misreading and Misusing His Writings < click wow...

 

[Loveneverfails]

I am in the church.. no one has ever interfered with my family life or told me not to celebrate holidays with my relatives. Re speaking in the meetings.."each one has"..we can all function and we should all function.We can all study the word. We can all speak. We can all pray.

Sorry for the very delayed reply, Europanz. Thank you very much for your post. My mind is still open as I'm still gathering information about the church. I am not condemning Living Stream Ministry as a cult, but I am doing my best to take everything I read in their teachings and compare it to scripture.

My personal reason for doing this 'investigation' is that my boyfriend is a member of this particular church, and obviously I would like to figure out just how much we line up when it comes to doctrine. He's given me a whole stack of books written by Witness Lee and I spend hours buried in them, about 6 different translations of the Bible (including Recovery version), and a laptop nearby in case I need to google anything.

 

[Loveneverfails]

Testimonies Against the Unholy Trinity of Witness Lee, The Local Church and Living Stream Ministry
Jim Moran's website submissions and the Leeist Letters

Testimonies Against Witness Lee, The Local Church and LSM < click

sorry if someone already posted this.

C-U-L-T

Sorry for the delayed response.. I think I accidentally unsubscribed to this thread and I missed all of these replies. Zone, thanks so much for your input. As I said in my post to Europanz, I'm not taking sides, but rather just comparing everything I'm digging up in my "investigation" of this church and comparing it to God's Word. Thank you for contributing, and I wouldn't mind hearing other perspectives you have on this subject. Have a blessed day!

 

[BananaPie]

Hello everyone,

I'm curious if anyone here knows anything or has any experience regarding the Lord's Recovery movement aka "The local Church".

Yes, I'm very familiar with "the Local Church." Several of my dearest friends attended there, and many were our "TGIF" (Thank God it's Friday) hangouts discussing doctrine between us. The Lord is sweet! I actually met and sat under Witness Lee's preaching on several occasions and went witnessing (no pun intended) with him and other saints.

The Local Church was started by Witness Lee, a Baptist from China. Both of his parents were also raised Baptist, and that whole family, Lee included, endured the struggles of the "underground church" in China. Lee eventually moved to the US and established a publishing company called "Living Streams Ministry" in Anaheim, CA. That's were I met him.

The Local Church's emphasis is, practically, godly living is a daily, gradual process. Yielding to one another as one would yield to Christ is readily preached and practiced among the saints. The Local Church is big on the brethren (adult men of the congregation) being equipped to protect, guide, teach and rule over all the sisters and younger men/boys. I always felt very safe among the saints there, and I always believed they genuinely cared for those visiting them as I would.

The Local Church are joyfully a cappella during worship; all sister 12 yrs and over wear head coverings; the saints understand and appreciate the value of courtship, and doctrine of the Local Church is pretty sound Baptist-flavor overall, except when it comes to Lee's famous "economy of God," which was confusing to me; at times contradicting, and the "eating of Christ," which I refuse to be true all together since the early 90's.

They also tend to "live together" as in "brother's training home" or "sister's training home" in which one or two married couples will board-in 2-4 single brothers or single sisters to train them up in the faith. Everybody is accountable to one another for the sake of "not bringing shame to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as Witness would say. I stopped mingling with the Local Church back in '96. Witness Lee passed away in '97, if I remember correctly.

What's funny is that about 10 years ago, I was at a Target parking lot returning the cart to its place when out-of-thin-air, a lady watching what I was doing, stops me and says, "You seem peaceful. Do you know God?" I, astonished, replied, "Yes, of course!"

So, the lady hands me a "Recovery Version" NT, which I immediately recognize to be a Living Streams Ministry NT that Witness Lee had published. LOL. I couldn't believe it!. I thanked her, and we both went our merry way. That NT has since been part of my library. The Lord is good.

If you have access to a "Local Church," yes, it's safe to fellowship with them as long as the intensions of your heart is to learn directly from the Holy Spirit of God. If you hear/see anything goofy you may not understand at the time, ask the leading saints or another sister to explain it to you. Then pray about it to allow God to have the last say in your heart.

Remember that there is no "perfect church," there are only imperfect sinners being refined and loved by a most Holy and Perfect God.

Hugs in Christ,
BPie

 

[G4JC]

One of the first hits on google with lots of good information:
Apologetics Index - Local Church : Lord's Recovery, Living Stream Ministry

- Watching Out For Watchman Nee

 

[Loveneverfails]

Yes, I'm very familiar with "the Local Church." Several of my dearest friends attended there, and many were our "TGIF" (Thank God it's Friday) hangouts discussing doctrine between us. The Lord is sweet! I actually met and sat under Witness Lee's preaching on several occasions and went witnessing (no pun intended) with him and other saints.

The Local Church was started by Witness Lee, a Baptist from China. Both of his parents were also raised Baptist, and that whole family, Lee included, endured the struggles of the "underground church" in China. Lee eventually moved to the US and established a publishing company called "Living Streams Ministry" in Anaheim, CA. That's were I met him.

The Local Church's emphasis is, practically, godly living is a daily, gradual process. Yielding to one another as one would yield to Christ is readily preached and practiced among the saints. The Local Church is big on the brethren (adult men of the congregation) being equipped to protect, guide, teach and rule over all the sisters and younger men/boys. I always felt very safe among the saints there, and I always believed they genuinely cared for those visiting them as I would.

The Local Church are joyfully a cappella during worship; all sister 12 yrs and over wear head coverings; the saints understand and appreciate the value of courtship, and doctrine of the Local Church is pretty sound Baptist-flavor overall, except when it comes to Lee's famous "economy of God," which was confusing to me; at times contradicting, and the "eating of Christ," which I refuse to be true all together since the early 90's.

They also tend to "live together" as in "brother's training home" or "sister's training home" in which one or two married couples will board-in 2-4 single brothers or single sisters to train them up in the faith. Everybody is accountable to one another for the sake of "not bringing shame to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as Witness would say. I stopped mingling with the Local Church back in '96. Witness Lee passed away in '97, if I remember correctly.

What's funny is that about 10 years ago, I was at a Target parking lot returning the cart to its place when out-of-thin-air, a lady watching what I was doing, stops me and says, "You seem peaceful. Do you know God?" I, astonished, replied, "Yes, of course!"

So, the lady hands me a "Recovery Version" NT, which I immediately recognize to be a Living Streams Ministry NT that Witness Lee had published. LOL. I couldn't believe it!. I thanked her, and we both went our merry way. That NT has since been part of my library. The Lord is good.

If you have access to a "Local Church," yes, it's safe to fellowship with them as long as the intensions of your heart is to learn directly from the Holy Spirit of God. If you hear/see anything goofy you may not understand at the time, ask the leading saints or another sister to explain it to you. Then pray about it to allow God to have the last say in your heart.

Remember that there is no "perfect church," there are only imperfect sinners being refined and loved by a most Holy and Perfect God.

Hugs in Christ,
BPie

Thank you, BananaPie, for sharing.

The concept and attitudes of the "brethren" are things I have observed about the local church. I don't mind them, in fact to an extent I quite like them. I have not witnessed the type of living arrangement you spoke of, but it wouldn't surprise me if this was still occurring, especially back in Taiwan. My boyfriend is in the local church and he is also from Taiwan, and he claims that back "home", the local church follows the teachings of Witness Lee much more strictly than in the US.

I have never seen any woman of any age within the church wearing head coverings. I also do not see a capella worship in the meetings I've attended.. I wonder if this is just a tradition that has faded away over the years.

I was shocked to read about their Baptist influence. Every other source I've read makes them sound diametrically opposed to the Baptist denomination. Looks like I'll have to look over my research again.

I do like many things about the church, and I am blessed by some of the teachings they emphasize, including the ones you mentioned. I am just very wary and sensitive of cult-like behaviors due to a dark history in my family's past, and something about Witness Lee just doesn't rub me the right way...

I will continue praying, and as you said, letting God have the final say. Only He knows the big picture, and He knows the truth. Thank you again for sharing, your input is valuable.

God Bless