Scripture Based Flat Earth Proposition

[Zandar]

Yall are too funny. I believe in skience!

 

[Dino246]

Genesis 1:6-8
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:9-10
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

There are only two "waters", one above the firmament, and one below. And the one below He further divided into Earth and Seas. The fountains of the great deep would be the seas, from below the firmament. So if the water that fell to earth from the 'windows of heaven' didn't come from above the firmament, then where did it come from?

Within the firmament... as in clouds. While Genesis 2:5 says it had not rained yet by that time, Scripture says nothing about it not raining at all for several millenia prior to the flood. In 7:4, God tells Noah that it's going to rain, but He doesn't explain what "rain" is, suggesting that Noah already knew.

 

[Dino246]

For your consideration:
Matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Revelation 6:13
"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Revelation 12:4
"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

Question: How far will those stars fall from heaven to earth?

Let's determine first whether these "stars" are literal stars in the sky. I suggest that they aren't, but rather they are metaphorical. The entire chapter is metaphorical, so it's unreasonable to pick this one word out and apply a literal interpretation to it.

 

[GaryA]

The entire chapter is metaphorical, so it's unreasonable to pick this one word out and apply a literal interpretation to it.

What chapter - Matthew 24, Revelation 6, or Revelation 12...???

 

[Dino246]

What chapter - Matthew 24, Revelation 6, or Revelation 12...???

Rev 12.

 

[Romans34]

Within the firmament... as in clouds. While Genesis 2:5 says it had not rained yet by that time, Scripture says nothing about it not raining at all for several millenia prior to the flood. In 7:4, God tells Noah that it's going to rain, but He doesn't explain what "rain" is, suggesting that Noah already knew.

I figure in the 120 years Noah was building the ark God has plenty of time to explain it to him. Or He could have explained it at that time and the Spirit simply didn't inspire Moses to give that detail. Also, just for reference, the flood took place in 1656-1657, a little over a millenia. So are you saying you believe that the whole of the 'universe' is the firmament?

 

[Romans34]

Let's determine first whether these "stars" are literal stars in the sky. I suggest that they aren't, but rather they are metaphorical. The entire chapter is metaphorical, so it's unreasonable to pick this one word out and apply a literal interpretation to it.

What chapter - Matthew 24, Revelation 6, or Revelation 12...???

Rev 12.

So are the earthquake, sun, moon, and stars in Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 also metaphorical? And, if so, what do they represent?

I think somehow the point is being missed that the BE stars couldn't all fall to earth from 25 trillion miles away (most of which are so massive) without completely 'knocking' the earth out of 'orbit'.

 

[NightTwister]

I figure in the 120 years Noah was building the ark...

Reminds me of a couple of projects I worked on back in my architectural days.

 

[Romans34]

I know the reason you asked the question was essentially to point out that no one is willing to address is the initial question of this thread: So how far did the water fall to the earth? It is the DISTANCE no one wants to deal with, but then, that's the point of the proposition, is to get one to think seriously about what the Word of God teaches in Genesis chapter 1. No one on a "Christian" forum wants to outright deny the Word of God, and they don't know what else to say (because It says what It says), do they don't say anything (at least not anything that addresses the thread's focus).

Matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Revelation 6:13
"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Question: How far will those stars fall from heaven to earth?

Not to mention - the size of every star is considered (by the BE model) to be so much larger than the earth - how is that going to work?

Has anyone demonstrated the [earth science] model explained on post #14? Done the math? Reasoned how inconsistant it is with Scripture? Anyone?

I have done the math and reasoned how inconsistant it is with scripture.

It would surely be nice if others who have also done so would be willing to give their voice to this issue.

Anyone else?

I appreciate your efforts and response. As easy as it is to do, I don't think anyone else is willing to try. I'm fairly certain everyone on here is intelligent enough, and I don't want to think its lazyness (I'm sure everyone is busy these days). It could be that they just don't think it's that important (even though it is right there in the Scriptures). It could be that they are afraid to tackle it. Even those experiencing Cognitive Dissonance (defined below) will not believe they are experiencing it. I think that happened to all of us initially (I know I experienced it -- I thought it was the most rediculous thing I'd ever heard in my life). Or it could simply be that they are wise enough not to try to refute / explain it (because they know they cannot), yet not enough to research it and discovery the truth. It's like many other truths in the Word of God that people will not search out until they find it. At least this one is not one of the weightier matters as those that some ignoring the importance and neglecting to search it out will find themselves unprepared to meet God one day.

Cognitive Dissonance

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

[Magenta]

There's nothing said about God creating any heaven or firmament on day 1. Just Day and Night.

Eh? Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[Zandar]

Genesis 1:6 KJV: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

 

[Romans34]

Eh? Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Hebrew writers commonly when writing would make a "blanket" statement, then 'back up' and give the detail. A good example of this is Adam and Eve. Genesis 1:27 states, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The next chapter details how He did it (breathed into Adam's nostrils, took his rib, etc). God didn't create man twice; just declared it, then later gave more detail. This is the idea from the beginning of chapter 1. "In the beginning God created the heaven{s} and the earth." This is the 'blanket' statement. This is what He did in summary. Then, beginning in verse 3, we read the detail. Notice that each day begins with, "And God said...", and then explains all that He did that day. So day 1 would be represented in verses 3-5, Day and Night.

 

[Magenta]

Hebrew writers commonly when writing would make a "blanket" statement, then 'back up' and give the detail. A good example of this is Adam and Eve. Genesis 1:27 states, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The next chapter details how He did it (breathed into Adam's nostrils, took his rib, etc). God didn't create man twice; just declared it, then later gave more detail. This is the idea from the beginning of chapter 1. "In the beginning God created the heaven{s} and the earth." This is the 'blanket' statement. This is what He did in summary. Then, beginning in verse 3, we read the detail. Notice that each day begins with, "And God said...", and then explains all that He did that day. So day 1 would be represented in verses 3-5, Day and Night.

What has that got to do with your statement: There's nothing said about God creating any heaven or firmament on day 1.

I mean it is the very first sentence in the Bible that you are claiming does not exist. Pretty bold claim on your part.

But foolish.

 

[Kroogz]

Scripture Based Flat Earth Proposition (Part Four : The Question)

Since God placed the luminaries withIN the firmament . . .

In the days of Noah when He opened the windows of heaven,
how far did the water fall to the earth?

A hundred miles? A thousand miles? Or was it 25 trillion miles???

Proxima Centauri is said to be the closest star at 4.2465 light years away. That’s 24.93 trillion miles.

So how far did the water fall to the earth?


**Note also that about 1000 years before the coming of Christ (over 1300 years after the flood)
king David declared that the waters were still there when he wrote,
“Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens”.
View attachment 257281

6500 to 10,000 feet.
Judges 5:4 (ESV)
4 “Lord, when you went out from Seir,
when you marched from the region of Edom,
the earth trembled
and the heavens dropped,
yes, the clouds dropped water.

Genesis 9:14 (ESV)
14 When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds,

Genesis 9:13 (ESV)
13 I have set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth.

 

[Huckleberry]

My new denominational category:
"Young round-Earth we-landed-on-the-moon creationist".
What will be our next division?

 

[Romans34]

What has that got to do with your statement: There's nothing said about God creating any heaven or firmament on day 1.

Everything.
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:3-5) doesn't say anything about heaven or firmament. [Day 1]

 

[Romans34]

6500 to 10,000 feet.
Judges 5:4 (ESV)
4 “Lord, when you went out from Seir,
when you marched from the region of Edom,
the earth trembled
and the heavens dropped,
yes, the clouds dropped water.

Genesis 9:14 (ESV)
14 When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds,

Genesis 9:13 (ESV)
13 I have set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth.

Yes, but this was after the flood.

 

[Kroogz]

Yes, but this was after the flood.

Yes.

 

[Kroogz]

Yes, but this was after the flood.

I guess I am not following you. I re-read your opening posts. I know the big storms we have in the midwest the clouds are around 6500 feet at the bottom.

 

[Magenta]

Everything.
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:3-5) doesn't say anything about heaven or firmament. [Day 1]

Genesis 1:1 which I gave earlier... why are you ignoring it???

New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New Living Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Berean Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

New King James Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

NASB 1995
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

NASB 1977
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Legacy Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Amplified Bible
In the beginning God (Elohim) created [by forming from nothing] the heavens and the earth.

Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

etc etc