Anyone have any disagreement to this tulip
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Yeah Thunder, you seem a little demanding. Maybe take a day off or two, cool off, than when you got a better attitude, a decent discussion could possibly happen.
It seems you just want to bash Calvin, which seems like a bad idea. This is one of the Protestant Leaders of the Christian Faith.
Sure we all have different opinions, but it seems like your not really in it for a discussion, but to have a nice good mockery of him, and mock people who are open to his ideas. This is my impression of what you want.
It seems you just want to bash Calvin, which seems like a bad idea. This is one of the Protestant Leaders of the Christian Faith.
Sure we all have different opinions, but it seems like your not really in it for a discussion, but to have a nice good mockery of him, and mock people who are open to his ideas. This is my impression of what you want.
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Well it says here Jean Calvin never wrote the tulip Doctrine, Jean Calvin died in 1554.
Synod of Dordt
held in order to settle controversy in the Dutch churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism, met in the city of Dordrecht as a national assembly of the Dutch Reformed Church, to which were also invited voting representatives from the Reformed churches in eight foreign countries.
The convocation and proceedings of the Synod of Dordt (1618- 1619) may be considered "among the most interesting events of the seventeenth century. The Westminster Assembly was indeed more immediately interesting to British and American Presbyterians, yet the Synod of Dordt had a species of importance peculiar to itself and altogether pre-eminent. It was not merely a meeting of select divines of a single nation, but a convention of the Calvinistic world, to bear testimony against a rising and obtrusive error; to settle a question in which all the Reformed churches of Europe had an immediate and deep interest. The question was whether the opinions of Arminius, which were then agitating so many minds, could be reconciled with the confession of the Belgic churches." (Thomas Scott, The Articles of the Synod of Dort, Sprinkle Publications, 1993 reprint, p. 5.)
This synod convened on November 13, 1618 consisting of 39 pastors and 18 ruling Elders from the Belgic churches, 5 professors from the universities of Holland, 19 delegates from the Reformed churches in Germany and Switzerland, and 5 professors and bishops from Great Britain. France was also invited but did not attend. The Synod was thus constituted of 86 voting members in all. There were 154 formal sessions and many side conferences held during the six months that the Synod met to consider these matters. The last session of the Synod was held on May 9, 1619.
Synod of Dordt
held in order to settle controversy in the Dutch churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism, met in the city of Dordrecht as a national assembly of the Dutch Reformed Church, to which were also invited voting representatives from the Reformed churches in eight foreign countries.
The convocation and proceedings of the Synod of Dordt (1618- 1619) may be considered "among the most interesting events of the seventeenth century. The Westminster Assembly was indeed more immediately interesting to British and American Presbyterians, yet the Synod of Dordt had a species of importance peculiar to itself and altogether pre-eminent. It was not merely a meeting of select divines of a single nation, but a convention of the Calvinistic world, to bear testimony against a rising and obtrusive error; to settle a question in which all the Reformed churches of Europe had an immediate and deep interest. The question was whether the opinions of Arminius, which were then agitating so many minds, could be reconciled with the confession of the Belgic churches." (Thomas Scott, The Articles of the Synod of Dort, Sprinkle Publications, 1993 reprint, p. 5.)
This synod convened on November 13, 1618 consisting of 39 pastors and 18 ruling Elders from the Belgic churches, 5 professors from the universities of Holland, 19 delegates from the Reformed churches in Germany and Switzerland, and 5 professors and bishops from Great Britain. France was also invited but did not attend. The Synod was thus constituted of 86 voting members in all. There were 154 formal sessions and many side conferences held during the six months that the Synod met to consider these matters. The last session of the Synod was held on May 9, 1619.
The opening post of your thread has a video entitled, "TULIP - The False Doctrine of John Calvin".
Then you say....
I think I found the answer your looking for. It appears that T.U.L.I.P. is a five-letter acronym that help summarizes the religious principles of John Calvin. I think your splitting hairs here. More importantly, you are doing a terrible job in discrediting the teaching of one of the founding reformers of the Protestant Faith.
If your learning about something you disagree with, why didn't you continue on with a thread in Bible Study Forum? It doesn't really matter I suppose, but you probably would of got far more people to discuss this matter with you.
"Calvinism is a rare theology: It can be explained simply using a five-letter acronym: TULIP. This set of religious principles is the work of John Calvin (1509-1564), a French church reformer who had a permanent influence on several branches of Protestantism."
"The TULIP memory tool was solidified at the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), a gathering of Reformed theologians who met in the Netherlands to counter and condemn the teachings of Arminianism."
"Like Martin Luther before him, John Calvin broke from the Roman Catholic Church and based his theology on the Bible alone, not the Bible and tradition. After Calvin's death, his followers spread those beliefs throughout Europe and the American colonies."
https://www.learnreligions.com/five-point-calvinism-700356
Even Christianity.com gives credit to Jean Calvin for T.U.L.I.P., see here. They call the five point acronym, "The Five Points of Calvinism TULIP".
https://www.christianity.com/church/denominations/what-is-calvinism.html
Your quote above is quite revealing, you think Total Depravity in Calvinism is the doctrine of devils.
How is it the doctrine of devils?
Are you saying, there is more than one devil, since devils is plural?
Do you have scripture support of multiple devils?
How do you know what the doctrine of devils are?
Here is Total Depravity for you again....
"“Total depravity” asserts that as a consequence of the fall of man into sin, every person is enslaved to sin."
"People are not by nature inclined to love God, but rather to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God."
"Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures.""
Now here are some Bible verses...
Romans 6:20
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Philippians 2:3-4
3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
There does seem to scripture support for Total Depravity. Are you saying, that even though it has scriptural support, it was influenced by these devils who create doctrine?
Maybe your saying, people are not sinners, that people are not selfish, and that you can get to God without God's help? Please clarify.
Can I ask what church you goto, or at least where your influences of Biblical teaching, so I can better understand where this doctrine of devils name calling is coming from?
Then you say....
I think I found the answer your looking for. It appears that T.U.L.I.P. is a five-letter acronym that help summarizes the religious principles of John Calvin. I think your splitting hairs here. More importantly, you are doing a terrible job in discrediting the teaching of one of the founding reformers of the Protestant Faith.
If your learning about something you disagree with, why didn't you continue on with a thread in Bible Study Forum? It doesn't really matter I suppose, but you probably would of got far more people to discuss this matter with you.
"Calvinism is a rare theology: It can be explained simply using a five-letter acronym: TULIP. This set of religious principles is the work of John Calvin (1509-1564), a French church reformer who had a permanent influence on several branches of Protestantism."
"The TULIP memory tool was solidified at the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), a gathering of Reformed theologians who met in the Netherlands to counter and condemn the teachings of Arminianism."
"Like Martin Luther before him, John Calvin broke from the Roman Catholic Church and based his theology on the Bible alone, not the Bible and tradition. After Calvin's death, his followers spread those beliefs throughout Europe and the American colonies."
https://www.learnreligions.com/five-point-calvinism-700356
Even Christianity.com gives credit to Jean Calvin for T.U.L.I.P., see here. They call the five point acronym, "The Five Points of Calvinism TULIP".
https://www.christianity.com/church/denominations/what-is-calvinism.html
Your quote above is quite revealing, you think Total Depravity in Calvinism is the doctrine of devils.
How is it the doctrine of devils?
Are you saying, there is more than one devil, since devils is plural?
Do you have scripture support of multiple devils?
How do you know what the doctrine of devils are?
Here is Total Depravity for you again....
"“Total depravity” asserts that as a consequence of the fall of man into sin, every person is enslaved to sin."
"People are not by nature inclined to love God, but rather to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God."
"Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures.""
Now here are some Bible verses...
Romans 6:20
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Philippians 2:3-4
3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
There does seem to scripture support for Total Depravity. Are you saying, that even though it has scriptural support, it was influenced by these devils who create doctrine?
Maybe your saying, people are not sinners, that people are not selfish, and that you can get to God without God's help? Please clarify.
Can I ask what church you goto, or at least where your influences of Biblical teaching, so I can better understand where this doctrine of devils name calling is coming from?
This is a quote I found on the internet.
John Calvin quote
John Calvin quote
John Calvin is perhaps best known for his doctrine of predestination. He taught that God determined before all time who would be eternally saved and who would be condemned to hell. Christians, he said, should not question God's plan, but rather trust in God's good intentions for their personal life and destiny.
So why have the people who wrote the tulip doctrine disobeyed There founder of there faith Jean Calvin, by writing a tulip doctrine that questions Gods authority.
John Calvin quote
John Calvin quote
John Calvin is perhaps best known for his doctrine of predestination. He taught that God determined before all time who would be eternally saved and who would be condemned to hell. Christians, he said, should not question God's plan, but rather trust in God's good intentions for their personal life and destiny.
So why have the people who wrote the tulip doctrine disobeyed There founder of there faith Jean Calvin, by writing a tulip doctrine that questions Gods authority.
Why is tulip a doctrine of devils is a good question
Well every person's I have spoke to concerning the tulip doctrine have all either call me evil or names or behaved like trolls
Secondly why is it Doctrine of devils
Well to deprave the depraved is disgusting.
Thirdly when I spoke to God and asked him if the tulip doctrine was true he said no
Lastly according to John Calvin Gods authority should not be questioned.
So I think it's shameful that modern day Calvinists should disrespect there church father Jean Calvin by writing a tulip doctrine that does just that
Well every person's I have spoke to concerning the tulip doctrine have all either call me evil or names or behaved like trolls
Secondly why is it Doctrine of devils
Well to deprave the depraved is disgusting.
Thirdly when I spoke to God and asked him if the tulip doctrine was true he said no
Lastly according to John Calvin Gods authority should not be questioned.
So I think it's shameful that modern day Calvinists should disrespect there church father Jean Calvin by writing a tulip doctrine that does just that
Here is a 300 page on Calvinism in the Bible Study Forum, I have asked other members to join this discussion.
It might be a good place for those, who say, they don't know about him, starting to learning about Calvinism, and who just recently confuse Calvary with Calvinists.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/predestination-is-misunderstood.214056/page-297
It might be a good place for those, who say, they don't know about him, starting to learning about Calvinism, and who just recently confuse Calvary with Calvinists.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/predestination-is-misunderstood.214056/page-297
Hi there CS1, just clarifying your statement here. You are comparing Hitler and the Nazis, with Calvinists?? Hitler was raised Catholic.
"Hitler was born to a practicing Catholic mother, Klara Hitler, and was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church; his father, Alois Hitler, was a free-thinker and skeptical of the Catholic Church. In 1904, he was confirmed at the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Linz, Austria, where the family lived."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#:~:text=Hitler was born to a,Austria, where the family lived.
Hitler also made an agreement with the Roman Catholic Church called, The Concordat. Also, Jean Calvin left France, because he was in fear of the Catholic Church, because his beliefs were outside of Roman Catholicism.
If anything, the Catholic Church aligns more with Hitler and the Nazis, than any Protestant leader. Disagree?
Anyways, I feel your comment was fear mongering against Calvinism, and seems misguided. If anything, Protestants were the one's in fear of Catholic and Political leaders, not the other way around. The Catholic Church was/is political and had/has the power of a king.
"Hitler was born to a practicing Catholic mother, Klara Hitler, and was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church; his father, Alois Hitler, was a free-thinker and skeptical of the Catholic Church. In 1904, he was confirmed at the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Linz, Austria, where the family lived."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#:~:text=Hitler was born to a,Austria, where the family lived.
Hitler also made an agreement with the Roman Catholic Church called, The Concordat. Also, Jean Calvin left France, because he was in fear of the Catholic Church, because his beliefs were outside of Roman Catholicism.
If anything, the Catholic Church aligns more with Hitler and the Nazis, than any Protestant leader. Disagree?
Anyways, I feel your comment was fear mongering against Calvinism, and seems misguided. If anything, Protestants were the one's in fear of Catholic and Political leaders, not the other way around. The Catholic Church was/is political and had/has the power of a king.
After reading what John Calvin did in his short life, people who mock him, really need to question what they have accomplished. John Calvin is a hero in the Christian World, in my opinion.
https://museeprotestant.org/en/notice/jean-calvin-1509-1564/
https://museeprotestant.org/en/notice/jean-calvin-1509-1564/
I never look at any Bible character(except Jesus) as a hero, & certainly not those during the Reformation.
We are to show them mercy, however, for there wasn't much true biblical knowledge around back then.
The Reformation was an act of God, trying to get christians to search for biblical truth for themselves.
Even though some reformers were pretty bad, they were still far better than the Catholic church at the time, or even now.
We are to show them mercy, however, for there wasn't much true biblical knowledge around back then.
The Reformation was an act of God, trying to get christians to search for biblical truth for themselves.
Even though some reformers were pretty bad, they were still far better than the Catholic church at the time, or even now.
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