Touchy Subject - Deliverance Ministry/Mental Disorders(and just my life..)

[vahn]

I'm not sticking up for anyone, Maggie has explained what is true from her experiences and likewise for the rest of you. I'm ending this thread to agree to disagree with any of those that don't share the same beliefs; as per title (touchy subject). Let God guide us as he reveals all of us his truth for his will.

 

[MaggieMye]

Are you going to answer my questions above? Or can you not, because the bible DOES NOT support what you said? Excuse me, I have a life. I was working in the garden.

TIF...Show me this, show me that. Have you READ the BIble at all, entirely? Do you KNOW the character of God. Only if you are a new believer should you have to say show me, show me. Christ will not come for a tainted, wounded, sick and diseased bride! HE is PERFECT. He requires the bride to be perfect, free of sin, completely humble yet walking in His power
​

And this next part is TO MAGGIE: BUT GOD is NOW revealing these things to us so that we can BECOME the pure and holy Bride of Christ! He is NOT coming back for a bride that is sick, diseased or mentally ill!!!
Show me that God is not coming back for the "sick, diseased or mentally ill" IN THE BIBLE. there will be NO sickness, disease, woundedness or mental illness in heaven. IF the BRIDE IS NOT READY, HE WILL TARRY. I know you consider yourself to be a mature Christian, correct me if I am wrong. But IF you are, then how can you not know that the bride MUST be ready. The parable of the 10 virgins depicts this. There can be no negativity in heaven.
Who, as part of the perfected Bride of CHRIST, will be able to rule if they have not overcome. Use your concordance and look up "Overcome" and all the verses in which it is used.
The ONLY thing we MUST endure is to die a physical death. Moses was never sick. Neither was Abraham, the Friend of God, nor David, nor Elijah or Elisha. Where do we read in the OT that ANY of the men who walked righteously were sick? We don't. But they DID all die.
Show me where it says "The ONLY thing we must endure is to die a physical death" IN THE BIBLE. IF you overcome sickness and disease...UN-at-ease and conditions of lack, then the only thing left is to die...to be gathered to our people....that being the saints awaiting His return.
Romans 12:21
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Is sickness, etc. good? NO.

Abraham had a speech impediment. That's why he asked God to let someone else speak. Um...that was MOSES...Aaron spoke for Moses.

This psalm should be familiar to everyone. David wrote it: Ps 23What is your point here?​

What about Jacob, whose hip "The Angel" touched when he wrestled with Him? Jacob's hip was never the same.

And Elijah... Well...​

1 Kings 19
​

Sounds kind of like depression to me. And suicidal thoughts. And suicidal actions (having gone into the desert a day's journey with no food or water and lying down to die sounds pretty serious to me.) depression is a CONTINUAL condition. It is NOT just one day of emotional discouragement. There is a HUGE difference between the two.
​

Do YOU see where my line of 'thinking', my line of teaching has the power to set people free from conditions that they enemy attacked them with?​

No. I don't. Not at all. That is quite evident.​

When Adam ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good AND EVIL, he gave the whole human race ACCESS to knowledge about the spiritual realm. Do you know WHY God had to evict Adam and Eve from the Garden? It was so that they would not, in their sinful state, eat of the Tree of Life and be forced to FOREVER live, separated from Him. These truths are seldom taught from the pulpit, but consider how important they are!​

Actually, Adam already had knowledge about the spiritual realm AT LEAST in part, since God Himself walked alongside Adam and Eve in the garden. true This is why what you're saying is dangerous. That truth is no reason to say that what I say is dangerous. You give no reason at all! Adam and Eve had never sinned up to eating the forbidden fruit. But it DOES NOT say "God gave the whole human race access to knowledge about the spiritual realm" in Genesis. Seriously?? The WHOLE HUMAN RACE was rendered sinful because of what Adam did! And yes, it did give the whole human race access to knowledge about the spiritual realm. Before Adam ate, they, he and Eve, did not comprehend or understand evil. After he ate, they did. And so does the whole human race. It DOES say that their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked. Well, there you go! You just proved my point.

Show me where IN THE BIBLE it says there was no knowledge of the spiritual realm before the fall of man. You just stated yourself; prior to sin, their spiritual understanding was limited to the goodness of God. AFTER he ate/sinned, their "eyes were opened" which is to say their "understanding was enhanced" encompassing BOTH good and evil.​

ANANDHYA: Telling people they should get off their meds is LIFE THREATENING and NOT something you should say or post over the internet. You are correct. And if read my posts for what they say and not read INTO THEM, you will see that I have NEVER told Anyone to stop their meds. I SAID, in so many words, that they can get free of their need of them. So STOP accusing me of doing things or saying things I have not done or said.​

You equate taking medicine to spiritual Bondage and that is a LIE. No it is not a lie. Show in Scripture where God gives ANY indication that we are to be tied/bound/ reliant/dependant upon chemicals in order to live a healthy life! It's just NOT there!! Sorry, but you are ENDANGERING LIVES. On the contrary: being on meds for long periods or time causes toxicity in the liver and the kidneys. Dr.s require that, for many meds, the person has to go in for routine lab tests to see if their body is tolerating the medications/poison that is FORCING the body or brain to do what it should be able to do on its own! You call THAT divine health?? It is NOT. IF a person who has Diabetes then they stop taking their insulin they will die. Not might WILL. But if a person is set free from generational curses, word curses, iniquity and sin, they can receive healing and not NEED the insulin anymore....assuming that they do not violate the "do not defile the temple" by overeating and poor food choices.
​

 

[camragirl73]

Easy for me to say but the battle is his sis give it all to him for he cares for you

 

[MaggieMye]

KiwiMert: Maggie,
That was one thing that really got to me and drove me to leave the church, was that when I was unwell, struggling with my thinking and with migraine, I was constantly being told that I needed to pray more, and read the bible because I had 'sinned' or that somebody in my family lines had 'sinned' I am sorry that you went through that. I am sorry that the body of Christ is so lacking both knowledge and compassion. I have relationships with several mentally ill people. They seem to be drawn to me for some reason. I suppose it is a fulfilling of a prophecy spoken over me several years ago. It was spoken that my ministry would be to the underdogs of society. If the underdogs are not the mentally ill, then who? That aside, it is because the body, for the most part, is not the mature, loving, exuding-Christ group of people that it is supposed be, along with ignorance about how to treat and relate to people in general that what happened to you happened. It is also because the general population does not consider the feelings of people with mental illness and are actually afraid of them Because they do not know how to relate. One of the women that has sought me out used to be an RN. Now she can no longer hold a job. Before she got sick, she was married and had children. Because she was not knowledgeable about God's word at the time she got sick, she basically had no spiritual weapons to fight with. Her husband forced her to have an abortion and when the guilt set it, so did the mental illness. He turned their two kids against her and now she is a very lonely and needy woman. She had the abortion because her husband said he did not want any more kids and would leave her if she refused. Trapped, she gave in only to have him leave her anyway because she could not deal with what she had done to her child. He took no responsibility for any of it. It is this kind of evil, done against people (it IS a form of abuse, what her husband did) that opens the door and allows the enemy to come it and wreak havoc in a person's mind.
It had nothing to do with my generational lines or anything like that, it was just that I was plain ol' sick as a dog and was in desperate need of some help from a doctor! Wrong. There is ALWAYS a CAUSE for sickness...physical, mental, and emotional. Prov 26:2 Sickness is a curse.
Sometimes the answers can be really simple, why complicate it, it only makes it harder to find the solution in the first place! It does not get anymore simple than to acknowledge either our own sin or the sins of our ancestors or even sin done to us by others and confess it and forgive it. God's way is SO simple, but WE make it difficult, choosing to consider that MAN has better answers than He and even then we continue to suffer at the hand of the enemy.

For what it's worth, I never tell mentally ill people that they do not have enough faith, but I do offer to pray for them to have understanding. I do not tell them that they have to pray more, but I do pray WITH them, if they want. Only if they are not reading the Bible at all do I suggest that they do. But if they are, I never tell them that they are not reading enough. I have a degree in Special Education...so consider that from years ago, ministering to the mentally challenged or ill was part of the call of God on my life. I've gone from teaching the mentally handicapped to mentoring the mentally ill, my own son included. It's really been a fascinating ride! (But that is a long story.)

​

 

[MaggieMye]

KnightdeKristos: Do you have a Concordance? If so, look up the words "rebellion" and witchcraft you will see that the Greek root is pharnakeia or a form of it. Pharmakeia is the root word for pharmacy.

Maggie

 

[tif]

You know, Maggie, I will respect vahn's wishes and not post in this topic any more. Everyone has already seen the misquotations and misinformation, and I will let what I've already said about those stand.

One thing, though. No believer in Christ or in the word of God should be afraid to show scriptural reference for what they believe. I don't have to justify how long I've believed in Christ or been His follower, and if anyone would like to continue in PM, I will be glad to offer scripture about what I believe.

 

[toysoldier1610]

if you don't heal from the root cause, the symptoms (bipolar, skitz, etc) won't go away completely.
check out
Spiritual warfare, deliverance, casting out demons, strongholds and more!

it has a lot of info about this stuff. just click around & read. seriously, it's mind blowing.

but i believe you can and will be healed, but it may take a lot more time. :/
praying for you!
let me know if you ever need to chat, anyone.
be well,
carlie

 

[AnandaHya]

IF a person who has Diabetes then they stop taking their insulin they will die. Not might WILL. But if a person is set free from generational curses, word curses, iniquity and sin, they can receive healing and not NEED the insulin anymore....assuming that they do not violate the "do not defile the temple" by overeating and poor food choices.
[/LEFT]

and this thinking is consider sound, rational and from the Holy Spirit?

How would they know they don't "NEED the insulin anymore"?

If your "faith" healing doesn't work, I'm sure you could blame it on the person and say they have "defile the temple by overeating and poor food choices"

sorry that doesn't work until Jesus comes with the NEW Earth. this old earth doesn't work that way, people DIE.

the only time God promises to HEAL everything is when they stand around His throne, not while they are on earth running the good race

revelations 7
“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters.[c] And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

we were created for God's glory. God does not have to be justified by "healing people" it is an honor and priviledge that He does, not an innate right.

it is prideful and arrogrant to claim otherwise.

telling people they have to be "good enough" and have enough "faith" is just a lie. God saves people when they are sinners still. why would He not heal them also if He so chose too? God places in people a NEW heart. it is not something that can be learn or created or made by HUMAN effort but by GOD's.

That is the point it is not by MEN's hands that thing are made but by GOD's

you bind people to the law and negate the salvation of Grace. I pray that God will open your eyes and allow you to see the harm you are doing.

for you talk of witchcraft yet you practice it.

for example how do you believe that people are "set free from generational curses, word curses, iniquity and sin"?

Is it through works or through faith? Is it through grace or is by men trying to be more "faithful' to God and His commandments?

how do you explain why Paul did not get the thorn removed though he prayed three times it be gone?

2 Corinthians 12:7-9
New King James Version (NKJV)

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


Is God's grace sufficient for YOU?

if God never gave you anything except the promise you would be in Heaven, would that be enough?

 

[MaggieMye]

IF a person who has Diabetes then they stop taking their insulin they will die. Not might WILL. But if a person is set free from generational curses, word curses, iniquity and sin, they can receive healing and not NEED the insulin anymore....assuming that they do not violate the "do not defile the temple" by overeating and poor food choices.

and this thinking is consider sound, rational and from the Holy Spirit? LOL Holy Spirit rational?? The wisdom of man is foolishness to God and what WE deem as foolish is often the wisdom of God. Answer, YES.
How would they know they don't "NEED the insulin anymore"? Their blood sugar levels would show the need for less insulin and the dr. would decrease the amount to be taken, only to see that it is still to much and so eventually take them off the insulin. Someone that is healed, need not fear being on meds while the Dr. checks it out. God's grace is sufficient. The goal is the TESTIMONY of the power of Christ.
If your "faith" healing doesn't work,it is NOT faith healing I'm sure you could blame it on the person and say they have "defiled the temple by overeating and poor food choices" Cop out. I guess one would have to observe the person's eating habits to know if that were true!!
sorry that doesn't work until Jesus comes with the NEW Earth. this old earth doesn't work that way, people DIE. That is the knowledge that you are lacking. When we become born again and have Christ within us, we are called to TAKE BACK what the enemy has stolen. But that is for another thread.
the only time God promises to HEAL everything is when they stand around His throne, not while they are on earth running the good race Where is that in scripture? How can the sick and infirm RUN ANY race???
revelations 7
“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters.[c] And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
//we were created for God's glory. God does not have to be justified by "healing people" it is an honor and priviledge that He does, not an innate right. Wrong. We WERE created for His glory. But where is the glory in people that are sick and full of disease?...saved or not. It's not there. But there IS glory in the manifestation of His power when they are healed! And it is not that God is justified (and WHO would justify Him????), it is that WE are justified through the blood of Christ. WE receive the justice of and in Christ, making all things new BECAUSE we accept Him and His sacrifice. And it IS a right, as a joint heirs of Christ. Just like it was your RIGHT to expect your parents to care for you; feed you, clothe you, attend to your physical needs. As HIS CHILDREN, born of God, it is our RIGHT to walk in power and authority overcoming darkness, sickness and infirmity. It is or RIGHT AND our RESPONSIBILITY. For He said "It is Finished!" It is WHY He willingly went to the cross!
it is prideful and arrogrant to claim otherwise. NO it is not. It is knowing and UNDERSTANDING YOUR IDENTITY IN CHRIST JESUS.
telling people they have to be "good enough" and have enough "faith" is just a lie. You are correct...although Jesus Himself accused the disciples of having too little faith. Mt 17:20 So maybe not, but I never said anything about too little faith. I said too little KNOWLEDGE!! Hos 4:6 God saves people when they are sinners still. why would He not heal them also if He so chose too? The healing has been provided. WE have to appropriate it. God places in people a NEW heart. it is not something that can be learn or created or made by HUMAN effort but by GOD's. Right. And with that new heart comes TRANSFORMATION ....into His image.
That is the point, it is not by MEN's hands that things are made, but by GOD's And?
you bind people to the law and negate the salvation of Grace. I pray that God will open your eyes and allow you to see the harm you are doing. Are you serious? The LAW? Christ fulfilled the law and WE living in Him, fulfill the law. Rom 8:4, 13:8,10, Gal 15:4, 6:2, James 2:8,
for you talk of witchcraft yet you practice it. I'll renounce that in the name of Jesus and let that go and chalk it up to your lack of knowledge. But calling me a witch? You think THAT is loving, kind or Christian? It is not.
for example how do you believe that people are "set free from generational curses, word curses, iniquity and sin"? Confession of sin, just like Daniel confessed the sin of his ancestors, (All of Dan 9, but specifically :8 "[c]Open shame belongs to us, O Lord, to our kings, our princes and our fathers, because we have sinned against You.) taking authority and breaking all curses of in the name of Jesus, confessing inquity, asking for forgiveness and receiving it and repenting. It's really not difficult, but the church has only taught a small portion...they only have taught as far as 'committing sin, confessing it and repenting. The curses entail more, hence Hos 4:6
Is it through works or through faith? It is through faith that produces works/works OF faith. Is it through grace or is by men trying to be more "faithful' to God and His commandments? It is in His grace that He has given all authority to Christ who, in turn, when in us, gives it also to us for the doing of His will.
how do you explain why Paul did not get the thorn removed though he prayed three times it be gone? Scripture says the thorn was a MESSENGER of satan. Messengers are angels, good or evil, that is what they do...bring messages. There was an evil messenger that was annoying Paul by attacking him in his flesh, "sarc" which does refer to the physical body BUT ALSO the human nature. This was a mental or emotional annoyance brought to Paul by a messenger of Satan; it attacked his humanity or human nature. He asked God to make it go away and God said, "NOPE! If I remove it and make it go away, you will forget yourself and become prideful in your knowledge of Me." (paraphrased of course).
Is God's grace sufficient for YOU? Yes. But do YOU KNOW what The Lord's grace affords us??​

 

[jandian]

Hi V, was just wondering if you had someone to call whenever those feelings come around. An elder in your church perhaps who you would have access to at anytime.

In the meanwhile, the bible said if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh........So, when those ideas, feelings etc (flesh) come around, CHOOSE to focus on the God (Spirit) Don't just recite, but try to understand the intent, TALK TO GOD like you would talk to a real person (because He is always with you) every chance you get about His Word and His promises. Study Ephesians 6. It's going to be a fight, but remember God has already won it for you....

If you have been through deliverance, the devil is not going to say "ok he's clean" and leave you alone. He will revisit the area of your weakness and try to make you feel you have not overcomed. Half of the work will be cut down when you build your faith in the word of God. Persistence and consistence will help, the devil will realise you mean business. ( Resist the devil and he will flee from you).

I hate it when the devil makes people feel that he is stronger than they are; he is real, but he is not, he has already lost....

Sometimes God delivers us right away and sometimes He wants us to overcome. There is something He wants to develop in you. You are an overcomer! Because you don't have to fight with your strength. Believe it..Fight! not as one who puffs at air..... We'll have you back in prayer.

God Bless.

 

[carlitta9881]

I sympathize with you. Thoyugh there are demons that can exacerbte certain psychological disorders. I would say rationally it's chemical imbalancedue to low neurotransmitters not demon. Please continue to see your psych and take your meds as ordered. I would advis though . talk to him or her about cognitinve behavior therapy in conjuction with meds. i hope that advice helps.

 

[ForthAngel]

A big part of it happens to be my obsessiveness with beliefs (God, Satan, Medication, Demons, Chemical imbalances) Whenever I am confronted with an anxiety producing situation(talking to women or people in general) I find it much easier to believe that the root of all my problems are from Satan, which seems very comfortable to me for whatever reason. Maybe because I believe I have much to do for God, but then again what is it he wants me to do?

I don't have the right answer for you. I just want to share some stuff. I have similar problems. I have OCD and my obsessions are spiritually based. It's actully called scrupulosity. It's my firm belief that because of this condition, my faith was able to be born and flourish and without it I would be stagnant and not working toward my goals as a christian. It can be hard though because of the guilt and fear that can arise from the obsessing.

I also have Major depression and a couple anxiety disorders. These are the toughest to deal with for me. When I have a depressive episode I get extremely delusional and it mimics schizotypal disorder in some cases, but I do not fit the profile of a schizophrenic. I have lost countless jobs, and lost every friend I ever made. Boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are the worst. My obsessions, anxiety and depression make it very difficult to have a healthy relationship.

I can't tell what you're looking for in your post, but I will explain my thoughts on prayer and deliverance and how my experience with my disorders has affected me. I think prayer helps. It may not seem like it, but it does. If you are looking for complete release from the disorders, it will either take time, and may not happen at all. I struggle daily, and even though so many people have prayed over me, things are not always perfect. No where close in fact. But it's enough to see a difference. I know where you are coming from though. It can be pure torture and no one who hasn't experienced these conditions could ever hope to console you because there is _no way_ for them to begin to understand what you are going through.

You might sometimes be particularly down and get ma at God. I do this a lot. I mean a lot. I don't know the reasons some people have certain experiences and problems and where the use in it lies, but there has to be a reason right? People have ups and down, sure, but with us, our downs make us feel like we are residing in the deepest darkest abyss and there is no one that can pull us out.

If you are like me you have a problem with mind altering medications. This is due to your OCD. From my own experience, I enjoy my OCD. It keeps me spiritually in tune. Without my OCD, I fear I would lose my faith. I was put on an antipsychotic, mood elevator, a beta blocker, and a pill to lower anxiety. I son these medications for about 6 months. They had several interesting effects. The first thing I noticed, is that my OCD did in fact improve. There was a significant problem with this. Without my obsessing, I found that reading the bible and listening to preachers no longer appealed to me. This is because I had lost something. My faith began to seem silly to me and that anything existed outside of our physical reality was a rediculous fascination. I was 28 already when I started these medications and stopped not long ago. I have never not believed in the supernatural. NEVER - before this medication.

The meds also did little to stop my other problems. My depression worsened and my nightmares/sleep problems intensified. I found this interesting as well. Not long before I was admitted to a crisis treatment center, I had a dream. In that dream, I was warned about taking medication to stop what was happening to me. It was not until later that I remembered this dream, and was like oh wow. That's kinda weird, but made sense to me. I still am very down, but I have no choice but to push forward. No matter how hard it gets, Jesus is preparing us for something greater than we can imagine. All of these disabilities will eventually be torn away from us as we are made new creatures. That is my comfort, and I hope it is yours as well.

Don't lose faith because it feels like prayer isn't working. You'll get through it, trust me.

 

[FIRE_of_ELISHA]

I work in mental health, and I carry a diagnosis of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder myself.

And I can say one thing for certain: GOD CAN HEAL ANYTHING, BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A SPIRITUAL CURE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM.

That is not to say that there is no spiritual realm or spiritual forces at work in our lives. But I've known women who are dedicated to God and still experience all the symptoms of their diagnoses. One of these women, I'll call hey Kay, lived 50 years of her life before getting a diagnosis of bipolar. She tried prayer and bible study, she tried church, she tried getting others to pray for her healing, she tried therapy, she tried EVERYTHING. She was dedicated to God, and still is. And, about six or seven years ago, Kay finally (under the urging of the psychologist/psychiatrist who had been counseling her for years) tried medication. She swears that was the last piece of the puzzle, and now lives a happy, fulfilled, God-filled life.

I was on medication for a long time, but am not now. And that isn't a choice I would recommend for anyone unless they are working with their doctor/therapist/support team. It was VERY difficult.

Medication doesn't mean you don't believe in God or trust Him. That would be a stupid assumption. There have been brain scans that show the shape of the human brain CHANGES when a person has schizophrenia. You wouldn't refuse chemotherapy if you had cancer, would you? Or insulin for diabetes?

Pray. Read God's word. See a doctor. And don't let people who have never traveled this road tell you it's all demonic if you know it isn't.

hey lady..this was your first post which is clearly the whole point of all of your nonsense posts . How could u say u believe in God and yet at the same time you were discrediting His Word? This very perspective of yours is obvious hypocritical ! Lady..from what i discerned about you is that you still doubting about the things of God...His power...His might...His Blood and maybe His existence. YOU RELY AND BELIEVE MORE ON THE POWER OF MEDICINE RATHER THAN THE POWER OF A GOD. You just want to say you believe in God just to win your argument...in short..you are using God's name in Vain. i sensed ego and stubbornness in you. What causes the people of israel to fall? it's because of stubbornness and disobedience. What maggie are saying is TRUTH..except the part where she discredited the medicine and doctors. Maybe she has enough faith in times of sickness to the point she doesn't need any meds...who knows. Lady you dont know what REAL DELIVERANCE is all about. You don't know what the REAL POWER OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS can do...and u dont know about the OVERWHELMING FORCE OF THE HOLY FIRE...other than these are beyond your comprehension...it TAKES FAITH Lady !!!!