The US Joins WW3

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T10:22:41-0400

Let us put an end to this line of argumentation shall we .....

First of all....

Olam (Hebrew), Aion (Greek), Age-lasting/Age-enduring/Everlasting (Modern English)
All of these are uncertain amounts of time.
They do not necessarily mean "eternal" (which pertains to the absence of time).

Secondly... these are also olam and replaced by Christ

the Law of Moses replaced by Christ
the everlasting Tabernacle
burning of incense on the Sabbath
the Sabbath itself is an Everlasting Covenant
animal sacrifices replaced by
going to Jerusalem three times a year
circumcision
Temple replaced by Christ

All these have been annulled/fulfilled/abrogated >>> SEE the LETTER to the Hebrews

So the dispensationalist will tell you all those are done away/fulfilled

Therefore < it cannot be argued these eternal lasting commands have been removed/fulfilled in Christ and then deny that the land promises which uses the same word "olam" could also be fulfilled.

Thirdly any possession of the land was contingent upon the obedience of Covenant Israel and we certainly do not see that in this secular state.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T10:30:09-0400

ThereRoseaLamb said:

It is a challenge to expect peace when you take a land by force/violence/ displacement and ethnic cleansing.

Oh and you stated they paid for the land .. seems this is in violation of God's will as well...

23 “‘The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you reside in my land as foreigners and strangers. 24 Throughout the land that you hold as a possession, you must provide for the redemption of the land.
Leviticus 25

Rather strange, as I recall you deny OSAS.

but the land promise is eternal.

ZNP · 2025-06-20T10:30:24-0400

HeIsHere said:

Let's put a stop to your bait and switch

Genesis 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

ʿôlām From עָלַם (H5956)

The KJV translates Strong's H5769 in the following manner: ever (272x), everlasting (63x), old (22x), perpetual (22x), evermore (15x), never (13x), time (6x), ancient (5x), world (4x), always (3x), alway (2x), long (2x), more (2x), never (with H408) (2x), miscellaneous (6x).

This word is translated as "forever, everlasting, evermore, alway and perpetual" None of these terms suggest a limited covenant that expires after a set period of time. The definition of perpetual is "never ending".

Now you claim that the Law of Moses is not everlasting. So what, we are talking about the covenant made with Abraham. Talk about bait and switch.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T10:31:36-0400

ZNP said:

Let's put a stop to your bait and switch

Genesis 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

ʿôlām From עָלַם (H5956)

The KJV translates Strong's H5769 in the following manner: ever (272x), everlasting (63x), old (22x), perpetual (22x), evermore (15x), never (13x), time (6x), ancient (5x), world (4x), always (3x), alway (2x), long (2x), more (2x), never (with H408) (2x), miscellaneous (6x).

This word is translated as "forever, everlasting, evermore, alway and perpetual" None of these terms suggest a limited covenant that expires after a set period of time. The definition of perpetual is "never ending".

Now you claim that the Law of Moses is not everlasting. So what, we are talking about the covenant made with Abraham. Talk about bait and switch.

SEED >> Christ Jesus

ZNP · 2025-06-20T10:48:36-0400

HeIsHere said:

Yes, that is what Paul highlighted in Galatians.

So let us consider what this word means. The Bible is very unique in one very interesting aspect, its focus on genealogy. Some have pointed out that when the Angels came down and had children with the daughters of men that the DNA was corrupted and that is what Genesis means when it says that Noah was perfect. He was a sinner like any other fallen man, but his DNA was perfect. In the book of Revelation we learn that the 144,000 are descended from the tribe of Israel, is that their DNA? We also learn that if you take the mark of the beast you cannot be saved, does it corrupt your DNA?

At the simplest level I would teach that all believers who receive Jesus Christ as their savior are now connected to the seed of Abraham by faith. For the church and for Christians that is the most important takeaway. But it isn't the only takeaway.

We have recently learned that the image of God can be seen in our DNA. You can literally read the name of God in our DNA.* (Yahweh Is Embedded In Our DNA. "It's Yahweh in your DNA." written by Rhoda Gayle July 28, 2023. https://www.christianlearning.com/yahweh-is-embedded-in-our-dna/#google_vignette)

Galatians points out that Abraham had children according to the flesh and he had one child according to promise.

You say that Jesus is the seed of Abraham, and Paul said that as well in Galatians. But, the gospels tell us clearly His genealogy was directly tied to Abraham. When we read the gospels you can see Pharisees that rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and you can see false prophets like Judas. But you can also see apostles like Peter, Paul and John who received Jesus as the Messiah. The fact that some Jews are fake Jews or children according to the flesh does not in any way annul a perpetual covenant with those who are born according to the promise.

Paul made it very clear, you cannot annul the covenant with Abraham by a covenant made 400 years later with Moses. Since Jesus is the seed of Abraham that confirms that the covenant made with the children of Abraham according to the promise is perpetual for all generations. We have been grafted into the tree, that doesn't mean the tree gets cut down.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T10:53:51-0400

I am so very thankful that Dispensationalism is trending on X.
This guy does not hold back... he calls it pernicious and solely created for one purpose.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1935542230678151606

ZNP · 2025-06-20T11:13:15-0400

HeIsHere said:

No, he attacks Zionism and Christian Nationalism and mistakenly labels them as dispensationalism

Zionism -- a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.

Show me in Darby's teaching or Watchman Nee's teaching where they taught that Christians and especially the Church were supposed to get involved in the establishment and development and protection of a Jewish nation?

You won't see any direct reference at all in Darby since he predated Zionism. I expect you will find that Watchman Nee referenced the blessings God gave to Abraham in Genesis saying that those who bless you will be blessed and those who curse you will be cursed. But he taught very clearly that the church was not to get involved in trying to bring back Jesus physically, it was a spiritual warfare. He taught clearly that trying to do this according to the flesh was building with wood, hay and stubble.

Christian nationalism is an ideology that asserts the United States is or should be a Christian nation, both in identity and in its governance. It posits that America's founding and identity are inherently Christian, and therefore, the government should actively promote and protect Christian values and beliefs. This often includes a desire to see Christian principles reflected in law and public policy.

Likewise with this. I highly doubt Darby said anything of the sort and I know for a fact that Watchman Nee didn't. Yes, he referred to the US as a Christian nation and when you live in a China, a pagan nation, the fact that the US is Christian is extremely obvious. But once again, "Dispensationalism" is a doctrine put forth by Darby. I don't know if it predated Darby but he definitely promoted this that there are seven dispensations to man.

Dispensationalism generally outlines seven distinct periods in God's dealings with humanity, known as dispensations: Innocence, Conscience, Human Government, Promise, Law, Grace, and the Millennial Kingdom. These periods represent different ways God interacts with humanity and man's corresponding responsibilities.

Adam -- Age of Innocence
After the Fall -- Age of conscience
After Noah's flood -- Age of human government
After Abraham -- Age of Promise
After Moses -- Age of Law
After Crucifixion -- Age of Grace
After Armageddon -- Millennial kingdom.

I was taught for twenty years under the ministry of Witness Lee who claimed he was Watchman Nee's closest coworker. Both Lee and Nee published extensively and I read and sat through all of Witness Lee's verse by verse exposition of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Zionism and Christian Nationalism were most definitely not part of his doctrine and yet he always credited Darby and Dispensationalism as a fundamental doctrine that he adhered to.

Witness Lee died in 1998 and ministered right up until his death. So he was aware of the modern Jewish state and the six day war and the prophecies. He taught on this and yet was crystal clear that the church and saints he ministered to were not to get involved in an attempt to physically cause Israel to return or to cause prophecies to be fulfilled. Our job was to speak the gospel to the whole earth and trust the Lord to do the rest.

ZNP · 2025-06-20T11:19:26-0400

It is possible that Christian nationalists are trying to cover themselves with the cloak of dispensationalism to give themselves more legitimacy, but that is only effective for those void of understanding.

Instead of attacking Darby and Dispensationalism, focus on Christian Nationalism.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T11:32:51-0400

ZNP said:

So you are saying Christ Jesus did not fulfill the covenant?
Those born to according to the covenant can believe in Jesus if they so choose.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T11:36:00-0400

ZNP said:

Correct, Jesus is the tree and it has not been cut down.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T11:42:38-0400

There is no separate plan, God did not fail ... One Plan.

ZNP · 2025-06-20T11:42:54-0400

HeIsHere said:

No did not say that, why do you try and put words in people's mouths? The covenant made with Abraham was, like you said, that Jesus was the seed of Abraham. I agreed with that.

What I am saying is what the Bible is saying. God has a covenant with both Israel and the nations. Had Israel received Jesus as Messiah we never would have had a chance to be saved, so we should be thankful that they were obstinate. But God still has a covenant with them, He will cause them to be jealous with the church, and ultimately they will see that Jesus is the Messiah and be saved as a nation. Approximately one third get saved, so I have no issue with you saying two thirds are fake.

The real false doctrine is replacement theology.

Replacement theology, also known as supersessionism, is a Christian belief that the Church has replaced the Jewish people as God's chosen people and that the New Covenant has superseded the Old Covenant. This view often implies that God's promises to Israel, including those concerning land, have been transferred to the Church.

This theology is based on the fact that we are the children of Abraham, the children of Faith and the church is the Israel which is above. That is true. But it does not mean that God is not faithful and that what He says He will accomplish and that He watches over His word to accomplish it. Israel returning to the good land fulfilling prophecies in Ezekiel validates Dispensationalism and a literal interpretation of many prophecies that many wanted to do away with or allegorize. When God makes a perpetual covenant it means what it says, it is perpetual to all generations, not simply to some.

Cameron143 · 2025-06-20T11:48:52-0400

ZNP said:

No did not say that, why do you try and put words in people's mouths? The covenant made with Abraham was, like you said, that Jesus was the seed of Abraham. I agreed with that.

What I am saying is what the Bible is saying. God has a covenant with both Israel and the nations. Had Israel received Jesus as Messiah we never would have had a chance to be saved, so we should be thankful that they were obstinate. But God still has a covenant with them, He will cause them to be jealous with the church, and ultimately they will see that Jesus is the Messiah and be saved as a nation. Approximately one third get saved, so I have no issue with you saying two thirds are fake.

The real false doctrine is replacement theology.

Replacement theology, also known as supersessionism, is a Christian belief that the Church has replaced the Jewish people as God's chosen people and that the New Covenant has superseded the Old Covenant. This view often implies that God's promises to Israel, including those concerning land, have been transferred to the Church.

This theology is based on the fact that we are the children of Abraham, the children of Faith and the church is the Israel which is above. That is true. But it does not mean that God is not faithful and that what He says He will accomplish and that He watches over His word to accomplish it. Israel returning to the good land fulfilling prophecies in Ezekiel validates Dispensationalism and a literal interpretation of many prophecies that many wanted to do away with or allegorize. When God makes a perpetual covenant it means what it says, it is perpetual to all generations, not simply to some.

What covenant is Israel under?

ZNP · 2025-06-20T11:49:01-0400

HeIsHere said:

Boast not against the branches

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

The Jews are the "natural branches".

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Yes, that is true, you can be cut off due to pride, arrogancy, etc. So don't boast against the branches that were cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Whoa, they will still be grafted in if they abide not in unbelief. That is what the prophecies say that after the two witnesses are killed and raised many Jews will no longer abide in unbelief.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Yep, Jesus is "their own olive tree" and the Jews are "the natural branches". They can be grafted back in and they will be so stop boasting against them.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T11:50:43-0400

ZNP said:

I was not putting words in your mouth I was asking for clarification, I guess I need to put hearts on my posts or something. LOL

I have never heard this take (your above statement) I definitely disagree, I will need to look into it.

HeIsHere · 2025-06-20T11:54:04-0400

HeIsHere said:

Furthermore....

Dispensationalism turns the gospel on its head by dividing God’s people into two separate plans

- one for ethnic Israel and one for the Church

So far this is having bad ramifications for the world.

ZNP · 2025-06-20T11:54:06-0400

Cameron143 said:

they still have the covenant that Moses made though it is being done away with

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

(11) For if that which is done away . . .—The Greek participle is in the present tense, “being done away,” or “failing,” expressing the same thought as the “decaying and waxing old” of Hebrews 8:13. The contrast between the transient and the permanent is expressed by the same Greek words as in 1Corinthians 13:8-11.

HealthAndHappiness · 2025-06-20T11:55:15-0400

ThereRoseaLamb said:

I agree that every nation state has a right to defense against aggressions.
That certainly goes for Israel too.
I'm not an interventionalist. By that I mean that I believe that US politicians should Not be dragging us into foreign wars. I voted for Trump and think he has been the best pres in my lifetime. However I disagree with him on this call. It seems like there's something sinister going on and he's got his blind spots for discernment. Just an educated opinion is all. I was glad to hear that Tucker tried to influence him as he did Putin when WW3 was imminent and still is.

I remember 2001 and something smelled fishy. A lot of details were revealed and we found that Osama wasn't the bad guy, but the puppet masters pulling the strings of people like the Bushes and Pentagram(gone).
They were used to kill many and there was apparently an Israeli connection mingled into the false flag attack.
You are a truth seeker, so you might enjoy the first documentary that was published on the 911 attack. If you do it's on my thread someone brought back that has Road to Tyranny in the title.

ZNP · 2025-06-20T11:55:26-0400

HeIsHere said:

I never saw any need for this doctrine other than it points to seven inflection points in human history.

Cameron143 · 2025-06-20T12:00:02-0400

ZNP said:

they still have the covenant that Moses made though it is being done away with

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

(11) For if that which is done away . . .—The Greek participle is in the present tense, “being done away,” or “failing,” expressing the same thought as the “decaying and waxing old” of Hebrews 8:13. The contrast between the transient and the permanent is expressed by the same Greek words as in 1Corinthians 13:8-11.

It was being done away with at the time Hebrews was written. It was definitely done away with when Jerusalem was destroyed.

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