Next Big Debate, Obergefell v. Hodges, Gay Marriage
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
For one, it is a civil right under the 14th amendment.
It isn't a marriage in God's eyes. That makes all the difference.
They can claim they're married.
Christianity does not hold the exclusive for that label, marriage. We do know as pertains to the faith and God's plans, they are not nor shall ever be married in the way our faith defines marriage.
Meanwhile, casting that community to the side for the moment, as pertains to my taxes and government expenditures, if I have no say when those monies encourage illegal entry into America, and then sustains those who the law says should be arrested , prosecuted , and deported or imprisoned, because upholding those laws is now deemed Xenophobic by the politically empowered Left, I have arrived at the realization we work for what they take and there is nothing we can do about it.
We can have a lot to say about it. However, as we learned with the last election, our opinion only serves to lead us to think this is still a Representative governance.
It isn't.
It's a shadow Oligarchy and an authoritarian dictatorship.
We didn't vote Biden\Harris into the White House.
We know this. So of course do they.
It is what it is. And there is nothing we can do about it.
Over two years later, how did we not get that message?
When the government comes for our guns, that's when we'll find out what we're made of.
Till then, it's just talk. Because they have our money already.💰
And as they prove , there's nothing to do about how they spend it.
And if we protest and dont give them more of our money? They take everything. They entice illegals to invade with the promise of tax payers dollars sustaining them. And put us in prison for tax evasion.
We have the government,governance, apathy afforded us.
Let's hope we'll give a care and get off our backsides in future when it gets really bad.
Till then....
It isn't a marriage in God's eyes. That makes all the difference.
They can claim they're married.
Christianity does not hold the exclusive for that label, marriage. We do know as pertains to the faith and God's plans, they are not nor shall ever be married in the way our faith defines marriage.
Meanwhile, casting that community to the side for the moment, as pertains to my taxes and government expenditures, if I have no say when those monies encourage illegal entry into America, and then sustains those who the law says should be arrested , prosecuted , and deported or imprisoned, because upholding those laws is now deemed Xenophobic by the politically empowered Left, I have arrived at the realization we work for what they take and there is nothing we can do about it.
We can have a lot to say about it. However, as we learned with the last election, our opinion only serves to lead us to think this is still a Representative governance.
It isn't.
It's a shadow Oligarchy and an authoritarian dictatorship.
We didn't vote Biden\Harris into the White House.
We know this. So of course do they.
It is what it is. And there is nothing we can do about it.
Over two years later, how did we not get that message?
When the government comes for our guns, that's when we'll find out what we're made of.
Till then, it's just talk. Because they have our money already.💰
And as they prove , there's nothing to do about how they spend it.
And if we protest and dont give them more of our money? They take everything. They entice illegals to invade with the promise of tax payers dollars sustaining them. And put us in prison for tax evasion.
We have the government,governance, apathy afforded us.
Let's hope we'll give a care and get off our backsides in future when it gets really bad.
Till then....
-
1
- Show all
Marriage is a right of The People via the institutions of Family and Church.
Thus, technically, it is a Right of The People and not a power of The State or The Federal Government. This also means, that you can, in theory, claim to be married by whatever means you wish.
But, this also means that the State nor the Federal have any say in who performs ceremonies in The People's Church.
Which is of course, in line with the 1st Amendment.
How nice we express the 1st Amendment, and not the full 2nd.
"... Militia, Being Necessary for the security of a Free State..."
Thus, technically, it is a Right of The People and not a power of The State or The Federal Government. This also means, that you can, in theory, claim to be married by whatever means you wish.
But, this also means that the State nor the Federal have any say in who performs ceremonies in The People's Church.
Which is of course, in line with the 1st Amendment.
How nice we express the 1st Amendment, and not the full 2nd.
"... Militia, Being Necessary for the security of a Free State..."
There is no Civil Right in a Church. The Church is an institution controlled and owned by The People. There may be a State Power in Churches, the 1st only mentions Congress, and numerous States had a State Church after the Declaration of Independence. And our early courts used the Bible and the assumption that the US was Christian in nature for reasonings for findings, declarations, and opinions.
Marriage and Family are powers and rights of The People, not to be interfered with by The State.
When too many people request of the State to solve their divorce proceedings, the courts and the vain officers of the State start to make codes to save themselves work and tax spendings. These turn into marriage codes, turned into oversight of marriages, turned into claim that marriage is a State Civil Right, turned into you can marry your pet rock.
And most of them should, it would upgrade the home IQ by infinite points.
Marriage and Family are powers and rights of The People, not to be interfered with by The State.
When too many people request of the State to solve their divorce proceedings, the courts and the vain officers of the State start to make codes to save themselves work and tax spendings. These turn into marriage codes, turned into oversight of marriages, turned into claim that marriage is a State Civil Right, turned into you can marry your pet rock.
And most of them should, it would upgrade the home IQ by infinite points.
Lots to unpack there.
Suffice to say, you're largely but not wholly mistaken.
Christians can 'marry' in the church in the eyes of God, with a pastor officiating if the pastor is amenable.
However, said couple is not legally married in the eyes of the state or the federal government.
For all benefits to apply in marriage, state and federal, there must be a marriage license and lawful, in the eyes of the state, marriage.
This all relates to what is commonly called the separation clause in the Constitution.
That's not actually the language in the USC. What is the legally binding language is the supremacy clause.
Suffice to say, you're largely but not wholly mistaken.
Christians can 'marry' in the church in the eyes of God, with a pastor officiating if the pastor is amenable.
However, said couple is not legally married in the eyes of the state or the federal government.
For all benefits to apply in marriage, state and federal, there must be a marriage license and lawful, in the eyes of the state, marriage.
This all relates to what is commonly called the separation clause in the Constitution.
That's not actually the language in the USC. What is the legally binding language is the supremacy clause.
I was born to own a gun.
What I own in the privacy of my own home shouldn't concern anyone else.
God made me this way....
I'm totally grossed out by not having a working firearm in my home.
I don't like the unarmed people in the world.
I want to teach young children gun ownership is a normal and natural part of life.
I'm a big proponent of safe gun handling but I know that there are places where people like to engage in anonymous gun handling. Where people let others just handle firearms and don't know if they are loaded or not.
What I own in the privacy of my own home shouldn't concern anyone else.
God made me this way....
I'm totally grossed out by not having a working firearm in my home.
I don't like the unarmed people in the world.
I want to teach young children gun ownership is a normal and natural part of life.
I'm a big proponent of safe gun handling but I know that there are places where people like to engage in anonymous gun handling. Where people let others just handle firearms and don't know if they are loaded or not.
So if I don't apply to the State for a certificate, I can't get cozy with my spouse?
Do we get more positions to engage each other?
More love-card choices?
Better bouquets?
lol
You've taken Taxation and State Burdens that shouldn't have existed in the first place, by the intents of the US Founders, and claimed them as reason for ignoring who owns Church, and perhaps more importantly, FAMILY.
Do we get more positions to engage each other?
More love-card choices?
Better bouquets?
lol
You've taken Taxation and State Burdens that shouldn't have existed in the first place, by the intents of the US Founders, and claimed them as reason for ignoring who owns Church, and perhaps more importantly, FAMILY.
For reference, unpack the 9th and 10 Amendments, side by side.
9th-The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
10th- The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Marriage is a Family Right, or a Personal Right, depending on age.
No, I got it, you leaned on State and Federal Restrictions, which only exist after we are numerous enough to have an Instiution called State, and claimed that their removal makes Marriage Valid, an institution that exists with 1 male and 1 female.
9th-The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
10th- The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Marriage is a Family Right, or a Personal Right, depending on age.
No, I got it, you leaned on State and Federal Restrictions, which only exist after we are numerous enough to have an Instiution called State, and claimed that their removal makes Marriage Valid, an institution that exists with 1 male and 1 female.
The U.S. doesn’t use the Bible as a standard of conduct or law. The U.S. standard is “we the people”. The vast majority of juris prudence deals with life, liberty, and happiness as defined by the people. Under U.S. law, each citizen may have a unique definition of each AS LONG AS it does not infringe on the others’ pursuit thereof. That is why homosexual marriage, even if it goes to the states, will still be permitted under law.
Yes it does.
Black's Law Dictionary is the missing piece of information that you are missing.
It's definitions are the standard by which the constitution was framed and worded. Even the Declaration of Independence used that Dictionary.
And if you understand the definitions in that Dictionary the Constitution does change a bit in a delightful manner.
America is and always has been a Christian nation.
Black's Law Dictionary is the missing piece of information that you are missing.
It's definitions are the standard by which the constitution was framed and worded. Even the Declaration of Independence used that Dictionary.
And if you understand the definitions in that Dictionary the Constitution does change a bit in a delightful manner.
America is and always has been a Christian nation.
-
1
- Show all
How did they get to change the 1776 to early 2000s definition of marriage without Congress changing any laws related to the ordinance?
It isn't a marriage on Earth or to God. Who ordained marriage? God.
They can claim but can not call it marriage.
Genesis chapter 1 and 2 says otherwise.
For one we pray.
For two we vote.
For three we educate others.
For four we encourage others to support what is just.
It isnt over yet. But I agree.
It isn't a marriage on Earth or to God. Who ordained marriage? God.
They can claim but can not call it marriage.
Genesis chapter 1 and 2 says otherwise.
For one we pray.
For two we vote.
For three we educate others.
For four we encourage others to support what is just.
It isnt over yet. But I agree.
Noah Webster published in 1828 An American Dictionary of the English Language.
In the age of the founders many also consider this dictionary the minds of the founders.
https://webstersdictionary1828.com/
MAR'RIAGE, noun [Latin mas, maris.]
The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.
Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled. Hebrews 13:4
1. A feast made on the occasion of a marriage
The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king, who made a marriage for his son. Matthew 22:2.
2. In a scriptural sense, the union between Christ and his church by the covenant of grace. Revelation 19:7.
In the age of the founders many also consider this dictionary the minds of the founders.
https://webstersdictionary1828.com/
MAR'RIAGE, noun [Latin mas, maris.]
The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.
Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled. Hebrews 13:4
1. A feast made on the occasion of a marriage
The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king, who made a marriage for his son. Matthew 22:2.
2. In a scriptural sense, the union between Christ and his church by the covenant of grace. Revelation 19:7.
One factor answers your secular and religious points.
America is not a Theocracy.
Many people of differing faiths or no faith are married in America.
This revokes the implied Christian exclusive. As does Genesis text. Because in the beginning, Adam and Eve, the first ''married'' couple, there were no Christians or Jews.
America's first amendment guarantees freedom of religion. And the separation clause guarantees all Americans freedom from religion. From any one teligion having primacy over their lives according to the tenets of any one faith, by law.
We are free in Christ. We have no right to insist by inference or offensive action everyone else should be enslaved to our beliefs.
Not even God operates that way.
America is not a Theocracy.
Many people of differing faiths or no faith are married in America.
This revokes the implied Christian exclusive. As does Genesis text. Because in the beginning, Adam and Eve, the first ''married'' couple, there were no Christians or Jews.
America's first amendment guarantees freedom of religion. And the separation clause guarantees all Americans freedom from religion. From any one teligion having primacy over their lives according to the tenets of any one faith, by law.
We are free in Christ. We have no right to insist by inference or offensive action everyone else should be enslaved to our beliefs.
Not even God operates that way.
Of course it is. Either it is ran by God, or it's ran by Satan.
And more importantly, it is Theocratic mind that gives you any place to not be a Monarchy.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
.... they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...
... And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor....
"nOT A TheoCRacy'
NOW PUT YOUR HAND ON THIS BIBLE, AND SWEAR BEFORE GOD....
And more importantly, it is Theocratic mind that gives you any place to not be a Monarchy.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
.... they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...
... And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor....
"nOT A TheoCRacy'
NOW PUT YOUR HAND ON THIS BIBLE, AND SWEAR BEFORE GOD....
The quote function sometimes messes up when using a phone to respond to a longer post, so I hope this posts right.
I wont belabor this point. There's way too much history to invoke so to prove America is not a Theocracy. Far more than a thread would allow.
I will say this though. America is not a Theocracy. Much less a Christian Theocracy.
U.S Constitution, amendment 1:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . .”
There is no religious test to enter public office. U.S Constitution, Article VI, Section III.
Which would not be the case were America a Theocracy. Rather, America is a secular democracy and a Constitutional Republic.
Excerpted]
''Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.''
Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
I wont belabor this point. There's way too much history to invoke so to prove America is not a Theocracy. Far more than a thread would allow.
I will say this though. America is not a Theocracy. Much less a Christian Theocracy.
U.S Constitution, amendment 1:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . .”
There is no religious test to enter public office. U.S Constitution, Article VI, Section III.
Which would not be the case were America a Theocracy. Rather, America is a secular democracy and a Constitutional Republic.
Excerpted]
''Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.''
Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association