Works can NEVER earn salvation
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Hi fred,
Jonah is quoted by Jesus as the example He was going to be to them.
Jonah three days in the whale, Jesus 3 days dead and rises again.
Forgiveness was given through acknowledgement of evil, showing remorse, stopping evil behaviour
and doing good, then hoping Gods judgement would be replaced by mercy.
10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.
Jon 3
So they repented of their sin. Pretty clear and straightforward.
Jonah is quoted by Jesus as the example He was going to be to them.
Jonah three days in the whale, Jesus 3 days dead and rises again.
Forgiveness was given through acknowledgement of evil, showing remorse, stopping evil behaviour
and doing good, then hoping Gods judgement would be replaced by mercy.
10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.
Jon 3
So they repented of their sin. Pretty clear and straightforward.
I had a boss once. In one meeting he agreed with one group.
In the next meeting he agreed with another group. Unfortunately for him some were
in both meetings so understood this guy knew nothing.
It gets comical when caught out, rather than coming clean and saying yep, we are not consistent
there is indignation, and aggression etc. Do they really think we do not see or know how the
game is played or taking these different contradictatory positions destroys the whole story.
Jesus told 7 parables where some seemed to participate yet ended up cast out and destroyed.
Time and again Jesus talks about cost, the difficulty, the price and the problems along the way.
So anyone who claims it is simple, guaranteed, no risk or failure, a luxury cruise and rest to put
your feet up, is literally whistling in the wind. Worse still words like love and transformation,
obedience and repentance are like the enemy, and those using them will be attacked using
everything they can muster to destroy them. And they do not know how to answer the questions,
just obtuse distractions and not addressing simple scripture that puts the points 100% clearly.
No drunkard will inherit the Kingdom. Do not eat with them, who call themselves brothers and
behave like this. 1 cor 5:11 Or showing the fruit of repentance after coming to faith, confirms the true nature
of the spiritual reality within. Acts 26:20
How these people manage to persuade believers that they know Jesus is a wonder.
It is because the elect are so open and loving they can exploit these very attributes and try and take
control, while never actually declaring where they stand or how it works out, just hopping between
discussions and dis-spiriting those they deem as their opponents. And ones like me, they would desire
to destroy, if they could, but Praise the Lord, His word is truth and stands against such onslaughts.
Amen
In the next meeting he agreed with another group. Unfortunately for him some were
in both meetings so understood this guy knew nothing.
It gets comical when caught out, rather than coming clean and saying yep, we are not consistent
there is indignation, and aggression etc. Do they really think we do not see or know how the
game is played or taking these different contradictatory positions destroys the whole story.
Jesus told 7 parables where some seemed to participate yet ended up cast out and destroyed.
Time and again Jesus talks about cost, the difficulty, the price and the problems along the way.
So anyone who claims it is simple, guaranteed, no risk or failure, a luxury cruise and rest to put
your feet up, is literally whistling in the wind. Worse still words like love and transformation,
obedience and repentance are like the enemy, and those using them will be attacked using
everything they can muster to destroy them. And they do not know how to answer the questions,
just obtuse distractions and not addressing simple scripture that puts the points 100% clearly.
No drunkard will inherit the Kingdom. Do not eat with them, who call themselves brothers and
behave like this. 1 cor 5:11 Or showing the fruit of repentance after coming to faith, confirms the true nature
of the spiritual reality within. Acts 26:20
How these people manage to persuade believers that they know Jesus is a wonder.
It is because the elect are so open and loving they can exploit these very attributes and try and take
control, while never actually declaring where they stand or how it works out, just hopping between
discussions and dis-spiriting those they deem as their opponents. And ones like me, they would desire
to destroy, if they could, but Praise the Lord, His word is truth and stands against such onslaughts.
Amen
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it says they were these people not are these people.
you are trying to say that God is cleaning people but they still do all the things listed? so God is very terrible and cleansing people and is playing peek-a-boo with sin pretending it doesnt exist?
sounds blasphemous.
if God cleanses why arent these people any better off? why doesnt it actually cleanse. manifestly.
@dcontroversal does it say "were" in the greek too? what am i missing.
you are trying to say that God is cleaning people but they still do all the things listed? so God is very terrible and cleansing people and is playing peek-a-boo with sin pretending it doesnt exist?
sounds blasphemous.
if God cleanses why arent these people any better off? why doesnt it actually cleanse. manifestly.
@dcontroversal does it say "were" in the greek too? what am i missing.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Of course you are trying to conflate.
v.9 turn and repent, two words, meaning turn is a change from its direction "way" and repent is a changed of mind.
v.10 turned from their evil way meaning a change of direction
But when the scripture says God "repented" the scripture is clear, God change his mind of what he said before, on the things that he would do unto them.
Pretty clear to me.
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Of course you are trying to conflate.
v.9 turn and repent, two words, meaning turn is a change from its direction "way" and repent is a changed of mind.
v.10 turned from their evil way meaning a change of direction
But when the scripture says God "repented" the scripture is clear, God change his mind of what he said before, on the things that he would do unto them.
Pretty clear to me.
wə·ni·ḥam relent Jonah 3:9
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
way·yin·nā·ḥem relented Exodus 32:14
14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
yin·nā·ḥêm change their minds Exodus 13:17
17 for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:
wə·ni·ḥam·tî I will relent Jeremiah 26:3
3 Perhaps they will listen and each will turn from his evil way. Then I will relent and not bring on them the disaster I was planning because of the evil they have done.
There is a difference is concepts here.
An evil deed is done which will bring judgement.
A warning is been given judgement will arrive unless active steps are taken to change present behaviour,
accept guilt for past behaviour and show sorrow for this situation that came about. These these things
together have been called repentance.
Another situation a course of action has been set. Thing change, and this course of action is changed.
The course of action was judgement, and the change was because of repentance by those judged, so
mercy was shown and God chose to relent on the judgement. This is called relenting.
A third situation was Israel changing their mind and returning to Egypt. This is a change of mind, but there
is no single word to convey change your mind, so translators often use the repent, but this is not actually appropriate.
So we are not conflating ideas, we are being clear about what is repentance from sin and what is changing your
mind about other intentions or actions. Repentance from sin is clear in scripture but obviously some do not agree.
I wonder if this is just the upgrade spirit believers?
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
way·yin·nā·ḥem relented Exodus 32:14
14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
yin·nā·ḥêm change their minds Exodus 13:17
17 for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:
wə·ni·ḥam·tî I will relent Jeremiah 26:3
3 Perhaps they will listen and each will turn from his evil way. Then I will relent and not bring on them the disaster I was planning because of the evil they have done.
There is a difference is concepts here.
An evil deed is done which will bring judgement.
A warning is been given judgement will arrive unless active steps are taken to change present behaviour,
accept guilt for past behaviour and show sorrow for this situation that came about. These these things
together have been called repentance.
Another situation a course of action has been set. Thing change, and this course of action is changed.
The course of action was judgement, and the change was because of repentance by those judged, so
mercy was shown and God chose to relent on the judgement. This is called relenting.
A third situation was Israel changing their mind and returning to Egypt. This is a change of mind, but there
is no single word to convey change your mind, so translators often use the repent, but this is not actually appropriate.
So we are not conflating ideas, we are being clear about what is repentance from sin and what is changing your
mind about other intentions or actions. Repentance from sin is clear in scripture but obviously some do not agree.
I wonder if this is just the upgrade spirit believers?
Are we righteous? OR DO WE PUT ON...HIS...RIGHTEOUSNESS! Are we born again? FOR GOD SO ...LOVED ...THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE THE ONLY PERFECT SACRIFICE ,OUR WAY TO SALVATION! Why were they first called" christians? BECAUSE THEY WERE....FOLLOWERS... OF CHRIST JESUS! Is there any other way to the Father? JESUS SAID I ...AM...THE TRUTH,THE WAY AND THE LIFE....NO...MAN COMETH INTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME! Do we just choose the ...life...we want?NO,THERE IS A PATTERN WE FOLLOW AND JESUS SAID....KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. Is being born again for everyone? YES,TO AS MANY THAT WILL COME,FOLLOW ME,FOR IT IS NOT HIS WILL THAT ......ANY....SHOULD PERISH! Do we have a chosen by God journey to walk? YES,THE WHOLE WORD OF GOD RIGHTLY DIVIDED IS ....OUR...ROADMAP!
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I use biblehub.com to get the greek and hebrew meaning of the verses.
It helps to see what the translators were dealing with and other places where the same word was
used. I am not a scholar, but often the conceptual approaches become clearer and somethings
appear that are not expected. God bless you
It helps to see what the translators were dealing with and other places where the same word was
used. I am not a scholar, but often the conceptual approaches become clearer and somethings
appear that are not expected. God bless you
They were "called" Christians first in Antioch, they were given a nickname by the outsiders of the church.
Umm....something smells stinks from this post. You cannot follow to be born again. Christ came to seek and saved that which was lost....
Luke 19:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Umm....something smells stinks from this post. You cannot follow to be born again. Christ came to seek and saved that which was lost....
Luke 19:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Sorry man English KJV is alright with me. Perhaps your use of Hebrew or Greek may pollute the meaning of the clear words of God. My point you are only dealing with two, three or even one scholar often times do'nt agree with a clear teaching of the scriptures. No i am not saying we don't need them but i am emphasizing that if it scripture is already clear then there is no need to change/turn it unclear.
God bless
God bless
Repentance as I said before is a central them of Jesus.
Our spiritual dimension is also crucial to our faith.
The upgrade spirit believers seem though to want to undermine repentance and reconciliation.
And I do understand that continual condemnation of oneself is not a good position to be in.
Until on see Jesus's love and acceptance, His grace and overflowing kindness towards His people
as they fight and overcome their weaknesses looking to Him for support and strength.
What amazes me is how when things are feeling good we quickly rush off and do the wrong things,
not seeing our elation can be as big a trap as the issue we are grappling with. We appear to be built
to work and solve things, once we are not occupied, it quickly does astray. God bless you
Our spiritual dimension is also crucial to our faith.
The upgrade spirit believers seem though to want to undermine repentance and reconciliation.
And I do understand that continual condemnation of oneself is not a good position to be in.
Until on see Jesus's love and acceptance, His grace and overflowing kindness towards His people
as they fight and overcome their weaknesses looking to Him for support and strength.
What amazes me is how when things are feeling good we quickly rush off and do the wrong things,
not seeing our elation can be as big a trap as the issue we are grappling with. We appear to be built
to work and solve things, once we are not occupied, it quickly does astray. God bless you
Much of the Old Covenant was “conditional.” If His people would do this, then God would do this; and if they did not, then God would do so and so.
A repenting God must be viewed as one that does what He intended, or else you have a God that obviously changes His mind, because He really isn’t omniscient, and is capable of “mistakes,” therefore not “perfect” as Satan asserts in the book of Job.
A repenting God must be viewed as one that does what He intended, or else you have a God that obviously changes His mind, because He really isn’t omniscient, and is capable of “mistakes,” therefore not “perfect” as Satan asserts in the book of Job.
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Greek and hebrew polute the clear words of God.
Some of scripture is hebrew in origin, some arimaic, some greek, and some latin.
All of these produced what is the KJV in english.
And scripture is often not that clear, which this forum demonstrates.
People have read the bible their whole lives and still create different meanings.
My answer to this is to listen to all sides and then see where my heart lies before the Lord.
Personally the old english of the KJV is too removed for me to use easily so I use the NIV
or NET as my basic reference, with the others chipping in for focus on other aspects of areas
of interest. God bless you
Some of scripture is hebrew in origin, some arimaic, some greek, and some latin.
All of these produced what is the KJV in english.
And scripture is often not that clear, which this forum demonstrates.
People have read the bible their whole lives and still create different meanings.
My answer to this is to listen to all sides and then see where my heart lies before the Lord.
Personally the old english of the KJV is too removed for me to use easily so I use the NIV
or NET as my basic reference, with the others chipping in for focus on other aspects of areas
of interest. God bless you
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The Lord pulled me aside from cc after I began to let " self" engage in controversy with some differences of thoughts and interpertations. I learned during this time of study and prayer that I do not have to engage with certain ppl! I can post my own thoughts and move on. It is not important to me " your" rebukes", nor should mine be to you. If we hold fast,and stand firm in Jesus,heaven is big enough for all! Jesus Himself did not supply an answer to certain ppl. I follow His example!
Fredo said: Your use of Hebrew and Greek may pollute the clear words of God
FHS said: Greek and Hebrew polute the clear words of God.
I see the difference, As explain I am pointing on the lexicon you use while dependent on them instead of the Bible is to create the different meaning. I have explain Jonah3 you haven't. You just pull another scripture to support your opinion. You have' not answered my question if the two words "turn" and "repent" are similar? Because the Bible says they were not the same. No of course, I will not turn this one into a Bible Version issue.
Still I'll stick to the scripture in what it says.
FHS said: Greek and Hebrew polute the clear words of God.
I see the difference, As explain I am pointing on the lexicon you use while dependent on them instead of the Bible is to create the different meaning. I have explain Jonah3 you haven't. You just pull another scripture to support your opinion. You have' not answered my question if the two words "turn" and "repent" are similar? Because the Bible says they were not the same. No of course, I will not turn this one into a Bible Version issue.
Still I'll stick to the scripture in what it says.
Yep not to worry but my point is that Repentance is a change of mind where FHS tried to demolish the intended meaning. Because of that he creates his own meaning. Of course, God changes his mind on this particular text means or not to be viewed to negate his omniscience and when he does change his mind then he does change direction.
God bless
God bless
When it comes to the issue of salvation, mankind is weak, we cannot hold on but the good news we received and believed is that God is the one holding us, keeping us thus the assurance no matter what happens in the way we still with him.
Amen and to God be the glory!
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Amen and to God be the glory!
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.