Women should not be allowed to preach in church
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It proves exactly what Paul said. The serpent deceived Eve and not Adam. There is not serpent in verse 6. You have no idea how much time transpired between verse 5 and 6. She could have picked the fruit and went to were Adam may have been. When Adam gets his punishment it was for hearkening to his wife. If Adam had overheard the conversation between Eve and the serpent then how could Paul say:
"And Adam was not deceived"
Had Adam overheard the conversation and eaten the fruit then he would have been deceived along with Eve. Your position makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and in fact is contrary to what the Scripture plainly states.
"And Adam was not deceived"
Had Adam overheard the conversation and eaten the fruit then he would have been deceived along with Eve. Your position makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and in fact is contrary to what the Scripture plainly states.
Your view requires creative interpolation (eisegesis). Mine doesn't.
Adam was not punished for (the sin of) listening to his wife. I add the words in brackets because that is the sense in which you write, "When Adam gets his punishment for hearkening to his wife." He was "punished" (as you say) for disobeying God.
If God were to justly punish Adam for listening to his wife, there would have to be a command, "Don't hearken unto your wife". That was not given, and where there is no commandment, sin is not accounted.
I am well aware that Adam was not deceived, and I am nowhere near hinting that he was. He made a conscious choice to eat the forbidden fruit. The idea that Eve took the fruit to Adam is indefensible; verse 6 says clearly, "her husband with her". You're trying to get around that plain statement. If Adam was not with her, the Scripture would not say that he was.
I don't know whether you have taken any training in hermeneutics, but I would encourage you to do some reading on the subject. What you are doing is making an argument from silence, which is fallacious, dangerous, and foolish. Many bad interpretations come from such practice.
Adam was not punished for (the sin of) listening to his wife. I add the words in brackets because that is the sense in which you write, "When Adam gets his punishment for hearkening to his wife." He was "punished" (as you say) for disobeying God.
If God were to justly punish Adam for listening to his wife, there would have to be a command, "Don't hearken unto your wife". That was not given, and where there is no commandment, sin is not accounted.
I am well aware that Adam was not deceived, and I am nowhere near hinting that he was. He made a conscious choice to eat the forbidden fruit. The idea that Eve took the fruit to Adam is indefensible; verse 6 says clearly, "her husband with her". You're trying to get around that plain statement. If Adam was not with her, the Scripture would not say that he was.
I don't know whether you have taken any training in hermeneutics, but I would encourage you to do some reading on the subject. What you are doing is making an argument from silence, which is fallacious, dangerous, and foolish. Many bad interpretations come from such practice.
And yet, although Paul talks about the woman being deceived in 1 Tim. 2, he also lays the problem for sin DIRECTLY at Adam’s feet.
”So then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one) transgressed.” Romans 5:12-14
The fact is, Eve was not even created when God told Adam not to eat of the Tree of Good and Evil. She was created AFTER that. So, the responsibilty for not properly communicating the message “not to eat” lies on Adam’s shoulders, because he did not make the message clear, nor how vital it was to them; and second, because Adam himself ate of the fruit. He didn’t have to eat, he could have said no. I’m not sure what would have happened theologically, with Eve having eaten, and Adam not, but, if Adam had been obedient to God, a third option could have presented itself. (Notice that Adam is commanded in verses 15-17 below, and God creates the woman in verses 18-22. Also notice, we are not even told the words Adam used to tell the woman not to eat!)
Command:
“[FONT="]15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the orchard in Eden to care for it and to maintain it. [/FONT][FONT="]16 Then the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat fruit from every tree of the orchard, [/FONT][FONT="]17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.”
[/FONT][FONT="]Eve created:[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a companion for him who corresponds to him.” 19 The Lord God formed out of the ground every living animal of the field and every bird of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man named all the animals, the birds of the air, and the living creatures of the field, but for Adam no companion who corresponded to him was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man” Genesis 2:15-32[/FONT]
Instead, we live in a Fallen World, and the consequences of sin, were so-called “roles” given in Genesis 3. And those roles were wiped out after Jesus died and was resurrected. This was not the the way things were before the Fall, roles are a PUNISHMENT for disobedience and sin, not the way God created things! A direct result of eating from the tree they were “commanded not to eat.”
“But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 The man replied, “I heard you moving about in the orchard, and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.” 11 And the Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave me, she gave me some fruit from the tree and I ate it.” 13 So the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman replied, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate.”
[FONT="][FONT="]14 The Lord God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all the wild beasts
and all the living creatures of the field!
On your belly you will crawl
and dust you will eat all the days of your life.
15 And I will put hostility between you and the woman
and between your offspring and her offspring;
her offspring will attack your head,
and you will attack her offspring’s heel.”
16 To the woman he said,
“I will greatly increase your labor pains;
with pain you will give birth to children.
You will want to control your husband,
but he will dominate you.”
17 But to Adam he said,
“Because you obeyed your wife
and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,
‘You must not eat from it,’
cursed is the ground thanks to you;
in painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
but you will eat the grain of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat food
until you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust, and to dust you will return.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
In fact, I have been rebuked for saying that Gal 3:28 is not about roles, but about being free in Christ. So, does being free in Christ mean maintaining the ungodly curses that Adam and Eve suffered after they sinned, and were thrown out of the Garden of Eden for it?
NO! This passage IS about how when we are saved, we are forgiven our sins, and that goes right back to the beginning of time. The roles vanish, as we become ONE in Christ Jesus, neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, free nor slave! And that is a powerful commentary on the fact, that Jesus came to set us free from sin, and roles were part of the punishment for sin, not the order God laid down for men and women to live! If God had wanted man to be over woman, he would have given the role curses out before they sinned.
“Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to the promise.” Gal. 3:23-29
”So then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one) transgressed.” Romans 5:12-14
The fact is, Eve was not even created when God told Adam not to eat of the Tree of Good and Evil. She was created AFTER that. So, the responsibilty for not properly communicating the message “not to eat” lies on Adam’s shoulders, because he did not make the message clear, nor how vital it was to them; and second, because Adam himself ate of the fruit. He didn’t have to eat, he could have said no. I’m not sure what would have happened theologically, with Eve having eaten, and Adam not, but, if Adam had been obedient to God, a third option could have presented itself. (Notice that Adam is commanded in verses 15-17 below, and God creates the woman in verses 18-22. Also notice, we are not even told the words Adam used to tell the woman not to eat!)
Command:
“[FONT="]15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the orchard in Eden to care for it and to maintain it. [/FONT][FONT="]16 Then the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat fruit from every tree of the orchard, [/FONT][FONT="]17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.”
[/FONT][FONT="]Eve created:[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a companion for him who corresponds to him.” 19 The Lord God formed out of the ground every living animal of the field and every bird of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man named all the animals, the birds of the air, and the living creatures of the field, but for Adam no companion who corresponded to him was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man” Genesis 2:15-32[/FONT]
Instead, we live in a Fallen World, and the consequences of sin, were so-called “roles” given in Genesis 3. And those roles were wiped out after Jesus died and was resurrected. This was not the the way things were before the Fall, roles are a PUNISHMENT for disobedience and sin, not the way God created things! A direct result of eating from the tree they were “commanded not to eat.”
“But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 The man replied, “I heard you moving about in the orchard, and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.” 11 And the Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave me, she gave me some fruit from the tree and I ate it.” 13 So the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman replied, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate.”
[FONT="][FONT="]14 The Lord God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all the wild beasts
and all the living creatures of the field!
On your belly you will crawl
and dust you will eat all the days of your life.
15 And I will put hostility between you and the woman
and between your offspring and her offspring;
her offspring will attack your head,
and you will attack her offspring’s heel.”
16 To the woman he said,
“I will greatly increase your labor pains;
with pain you will give birth to children.
You will want to control your husband,
but he will dominate you.”
17 But to Adam he said,
“Because you obeyed your wife
and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,
‘You must not eat from it,’
cursed is the ground thanks to you;
in painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
but you will eat the grain of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat food
until you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust, and to dust you will return.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
In fact, I have been rebuked for saying that Gal 3:28 is not about roles, but about being free in Christ. So, does being free in Christ mean maintaining the ungodly curses that Adam and Eve suffered after they sinned, and were thrown out of the Garden of Eden for it?
NO! This passage IS about how when we are saved, we are forgiven our sins, and that goes right back to the beginning of time. The roles vanish, as we become ONE in Christ Jesus, neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, free nor slave! And that is a powerful commentary on the fact, that Jesus came to set us free from sin, and roles were part of the punishment for sin, not the order God laid down for men and women to live! If God had wanted man to be over woman, he would have given the role curses out before they sinned.
“Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to the promise.” Gal. 3:23-29
What Bible verse says that Adam was deceived by the serpent? The serpent planted the seed of his words in Eve and not Adam. Had Adam heard what the serpent had said and ate he would have been deceived by the serpent. We know for a fact that Adam heard Eve's word and ate the fruit!
"To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’" (Genesis 3:1) NIV
Listened to the serpent? No his wife. The Bible is clear on this issue.
"To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’" (Genesis 3:1) NIV
Listened to the serpent? No his wife. The Bible is clear on this issue.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Joel 2:28-29, “And after this it shall be that I pour out My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men dream dreams, your young men see visions. And also on the male servants and on the female servants I shall pour out My Spirit in those days.”[/FONT]
These are all female prophets;
Micah 6:4, "for I brought you up from the land of Mitsrayim, and I ransomed you from the house of bondage. And I sent Mosheh, Aharon, and Miryam before you."
Judges 4:4, "And Deḇorah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappiḏoth, was ruling Yisra’ĕl at that time."
2 Kings 22:14, "Then Ḥilqiyahu the priest, and Aḥiqam, and Aḵbor, and Shaphan, and Asayah went to Ḥuldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum son of Tiqwah, son of Ḥarḥas, keeper of the wardrobe. Now she was dwelling in Yerushalayim in the Second Quarter. And they spoke with her.
Nehemiah 6:14, "My Elohim, remember Toḇiyah and Sanballat, according to these works of theirs, and the prophetess No‛aḏyah and the rest of the prophets who would have made me afraid."
Isaiah 8:3, "And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. And יהוה said to me, “Call his name Mahĕr-Shalal-Ḥash-Baz;"
Luke 2:36, "And there was Ḥannah, a prophetess, a daughter of Penu’ĕl, of the tribe of Ashĕr. She was advanced in years, and had lived with a husband seven years from her maidenhood,"
Acts 21:8-9, "And on the next day we left and came to Caesarea, and went into the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this one had four maiden daughters who prophesied."
Yet Paul says “it is improper for women to speak in an assembly”So how were these women able to speak prophecies of Yah? Some say because it wasn’t in a church. However they can speak prophecies to some of the most important people of Yah on earth? And what makes a assembly or church? Is it a 501c3 agreement with a government? Or is it of Yah? Seems Yah allowed these women to speak His words.
1 Corinthians 14:34, “Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but let them subject themselves, as the Law also says*. and if they wish to learn whatever, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in an assembly.”
*Except the Law does not say that.
People look to this verse, however it say nothing about women not speaking in a congregation;
Genesis 3:16, “To the woman He said, “I greatly increase your sorrow and your conception – bring forth children in pain. And your desire is for your husband, and he does rule over you.”
These are all female prophets;
Micah 6:4, "for I brought you up from the land of Mitsrayim, and I ransomed you from the house of bondage. And I sent Mosheh, Aharon, and Miryam before you."
Judges 4:4, "And Deḇorah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappiḏoth, was ruling Yisra’ĕl at that time."
2 Kings 22:14, "Then Ḥilqiyahu the priest, and Aḥiqam, and Aḵbor, and Shaphan, and Asayah went to Ḥuldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum son of Tiqwah, son of Ḥarḥas, keeper of the wardrobe. Now she was dwelling in Yerushalayim in the Second Quarter. And they spoke with her.
Nehemiah 6:14, "My Elohim, remember Toḇiyah and Sanballat, according to these works of theirs, and the prophetess No‛aḏyah and the rest of the prophets who would have made me afraid."
Isaiah 8:3, "And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. And יהוה said to me, “Call his name Mahĕr-Shalal-Ḥash-Baz;"
Luke 2:36, "And there was Ḥannah, a prophetess, a daughter of Penu’ĕl, of the tribe of Ashĕr. She was advanced in years, and had lived with a husband seven years from her maidenhood,"
Acts 21:8-9, "And on the next day we left and came to Caesarea, and went into the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this one had four maiden daughters who prophesied."
Yet Paul says “it is improper for women to speak in an assembly”So how were these women able to speak prophecies of Yah? Some say because it wasn’t in a church. However they can speak prophecies to some of the most important people of Yah on earth? And what makes a assembly or church? Is it a 501c3 agreement with a government? Or is it of Yah? Seems Yah allowed these women to speak His words.
1 Corinthians 14:34, “Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but let them subject themselves, as the Law also says*. and if they wish to learn whatever, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in an assembly.”
*Except the Law does not say that.
People look to this verse, however it say nothing about women not speaking in a congregation;
Genesis 3:16, “To the woman He said, “I greatly increase your sorrow and your conception – bring forth children in pain. And your desire is for your husband, and he does rule over you.”
Of course, Adam was with Eve in the garden. This historical event takes place in the garden of Eden.
When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER,
and he ate it. Genesis 3:6
When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER,
and he ate it. Genesis 3:6
Gen 3:9-13
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
KJV
Where art thou? God is not asking for information. He is holding Adam accountable.
I was naked The Hebrew word עַרוּמִּ֔ים means naked or nude in Gen 2:25
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
KJV
but, in Gen 3:10 עֵירֹ֥ם means exposed. Adam was NOT concerned about his nudity. It was his guilt that was troubling him.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
here the issue of accountability becomes obvious.
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Here Adam tries to shift the blame:
first to God whom thou gavest to be with me
then to Eve she gave me
Gen 3:17
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
KJV
God is responding to adam's attempt to shift the blame and placing responsibility back on Adam.
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
KJV
Where art thou? God is not asking for information. He is holding Adam accountable.
I was naked The Hebrew word עַרוּמִּ֔ים means naked or nude in Gen 2:25
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
KJV
but, in Gen 3:10 עֵירֹ֥ם means exposed. Adam was NOT concerned about his nudity. It was his guilt that was troubling him.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
here the issue of accountability becomes obvious.
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Here Adam tries to shift the blame:
first to God whom thou gavest to be with me
then to Eve she gave me
Gen 3:17
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
KJV
God is responding to adam's attempt to shift the blame and placing responsibility back on Adam.
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