Will the real second Pentecost please stand up

[ResidentAlien]

Were you there?

No, I wasn't but Parham's wife, Sarah Parham, was. You should read her book sometime.

Other folks were there who went away and established works all over the world. You know very well that Pentecostal churches are still growing at phenomenal rates all over the world.

So phenomenal growth is now an indicator of truth? The porn industry has experienced phenomenal growth since the invention of the internet. I suppose it too should be the standard for all to emulate.

It didn't all start at Asuza St. You've got to get over this looking at men. We don't hero worship, we know men are not perfect just as we are not perfect The baptism of the Holy Spirit does not make anyone perfect.

That's what I'm saying, it didn't start at Azusa St. I've been saying this for a long time. But since you still don't seem to get it, I'll say it as slowly and clearly as I can. PENTECOSTALS SAY IT STARTED WITH PARAHM AND AZUSA ST. That's the problem. THEY'RE LYING, HELLO. Parham lied when he said his was the first outpouring of the Spirit in such a way since Pentecost. Pentecostals are lying when they say Azusa St. was a wonderful manifestation of the Spirit. Parham said he believed most of it was Satanically inspired, nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. These aren't minor imperfections, it's deception on a grand scale. I'll make you a deal. When people stop lying, I'll quit pointing out their lies.

 

[Evmur]

No, I wasn't but Parham's wife, Sarah Parham, was. You should read her book sometime.



So phenomenal growth is now an indicator of truth? The porn industry has experienced phenomenal growth since the invention of the internet. I suppose it too should be the standard for all to emulate.



That's what I'm saying, it didn't start at Azusa St. I've been saying this for a long time. But since you still don't seem to get it, I'll say it as slowly and clearly as I can. PENTECOSTALS SAY IT STARTED WITH PARAHM AND AZUSA ST. That's the problem. THEY'RE LYING, HELLO. Parham lied when he said his was the first outpouring of the Spirit in such a way since Pentecost. Pentecostals are lying when they say Azusa St. was a wonderful manifestation of the Spirit. Parham said he believed most of it was Satanically inspired, nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. These aren't minor imperfections, it's deception on a grand scale. I'll make you a deal. When people stop lying, I'll quit pointing out their lies.

You talking rubbish Alien, you have a bitter spirit. I am SURE of what I got from the Lord so I don't need to read this book or that book or listen to this preacher or that preacher.

Why aren't you full of rejoicing? praising God? what has gone wrong?

 

[Aidan1]

My bad, it's in his other Writings:

John Wesley's eighteenth-century conception of the Holiness movement developed the Pentecostal movement and the various Assemblies of God that emerged from roots in Methodism.

John Wesley on Slain in the Spirit:
April 4, 1764. — In the evening the Mayor and all the Gentry of the town were present; and so was our Lord in an uncommon manner. Some dropped down as dead; but, after a while, rejoiced with joy unspeakable. (WJW3:13)

July 14, 1759. —The Lord was wonderfully present, more than twenty persons feeling the arrows of conviction. Several fell to the ground; some of whom seemed dead; others, in the agonies of death, the violence of their bodily convulsions exceeding all description. There was also great crying and agonizing in prayer, mixed with deep and deadly groans on every side. (WJW2:11)

May 20, 1759. —Others fell down as dead; some sinking in silence; some with extreme pain and violent agitation. I stood on the pew-seat, as did a young man in the opposite pew, an able-bodied, healthy countryman; but in a moment, while he seemed to think of nothing less, down he dropped with a violence inconceivable; (WJW13, History Of The Methodists, Sec 74) 55
^
John Wesley claims HE was Slain in the Spirit! = [I stood on the pew-seat, as did a young man in the opposite pew, an able-bodied, healthy countryman; but in a moment, while he seemed to think of nothing less, down he dropped with a violence inconceivable;]

May 1, 1739. — The power of God (so I call it) came so mightily among us, that one, and another, and another, fell down as thunderstruck.
(WJW12, Letter To His Brother Samuel, dated May 10, 1739)56

June 12, 1742. — I preached on the righteousness of the Law and the righteousness of faith. While I was speaking, several dropped down as dead; (WJW1:5)

THERE IS LITERALLY 20 MORE EXAMPLES OF JOHN WESLEY WRITING DOWN HIS WITNESSING AND BEING SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT!


HE SPEAKS ALSO OF EXAMPLES OF HOLY LAUGHTER!

If you wish I can post several of those?


Overcome By Convulsions

At Wapping June 15, 1739. — While I was earnestly inviting all sinners to “enter into the holiest” by this “new and living way,”79 many of those that heard began to call upon God with strong cries and tears. Some sunk down, and there remained no strength in them; others exceedingly trembled and quaked: Some were torn with a kind of convulsive motion in every part of their bodies, and that so violently, that often four or five persons could not hold one of them. (WJW1:3)

Overwhelming Power Of The Holy Spirit At Everton
May 30, 1759. — Being with Mr. B——ll at Everton, I was much fatigued and did not rise. But Mr. B. did, and observed several fainting and crying out while Mr. B—— e was preaching. Afterward, at church, I heard many cry out, especially children, whose agonies were amazing: One of the eldest, a girl ten or twelve years old, was full in my view, in violent contortions of body, and weeping aloud, . (WJW2:11)


Just some examples from John Wesley's own Writings that help to later spur on the Pentecostal Movement!

Really, and this should be the work of the Holy Spirit? Bible never reports such things done from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Evmur]

Really, and this should be the work of the Holy Spirit? Bible never reports such things done from the Holy Spirit.

really? The bible does not say "happy are you who sorrow now for you shall laugh" ? there is no harm in having our mouths filled with laughter.

 

[rayzor]

If I state historical facts, how is that teaching God's word? I don't claim to be a teacher of the word; I have opinions like everyone else here. I find it curious that you have an objection to straightforward historical facts.

With historical facts how is it that i teach gods word?Will if it is true then its pleasing to god and dare i say sometimes even gods word.

 

[rayzor]

in reality most of them have been bad guys.The devil disguised himself as a angle of light.We know this deep down and tend to get mad at each other.Some times tongues are in reality are spirits that peep an utter.That was forbidden in the old testament.

 

[Aidan1]

really? The bible does not say "happy are you who sorrow now for you shall laugh" ? there is no harm in having our mouths filled with laughter.

When the Holy Spirit came over them they spoke in languages and they are not falling down like death, ore have violent contortions of the body. And be serious to laugh is not the problem, but if you are driven to laugh without end and out of controle reminds me for the work of an evil spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.

 

[jb]

When the Holy Spirit came over them they spoke in languages and they are not falling down like death, ore have violent contortions of the body. And be serious to laugh is not the problem, but if you are driven to laugh without end and out of controle reminds me for the work of an evil spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.

I think a word of warning from Scripture would be worth setting down here:

Mark 3v28-30: "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" - for they had said, "He has an unclean spirit."

Ascribing the work of God, the Holy Spirit to the Devil is a SERIOUS SIN, make no mistake about it, and the Christian who does so, goes far down the road of committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (eternal sin)!

As a young Christian (in 1983), I asked the Lord Jesus to baptise my in the Holy Spirit, and He did so with the evidence of speaking in tongues...JUST like the Christians on the Day of Pentecost and those in the house of Cornelius (and every other Christian in the early Church), indeed Peter and the Jewish Christians who came with him, knew these Gentile believers had been saved and baptised in the Holy Spirit BECAUSE they spoke in tongues! Acts 2v4, 10,44-47 (esp. v46)

I had asked the Lord Jesus for the Holy Spirit, and I got the Holy Spirit (NOT some evil spirit), because the Lord Jesus and my Heavenly Father only gives GOOD GIFTS, and NOT evil gifts! Matt 7v7-11, Luke 11v9-13.

Paul valued the gift of tongues very highly, and he used it in his private prayer life more than all the verbose Corinthians, indeed, his making great use of it was the reason for his great ministry as an apostle! 1Cor 14v18, 2Cor 12v11-13, Rom 15v18-21.

So, DO NOT rubbish the "good gifts" that the Trinity has given to the Church, and cost Our Dear Lord SO MUCH to get for us! Eph 4v7-16.

 

[Aidan1]

I think a word of warning from Scripture would be worth setting down here:

Mark 3v28-30: "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" - for they had said, "He has an unclean spirit."

Ascribing the work of God, the Holy Spirit to the Devil is a SERIOUS SIN, make no mistake about it, and the Christian who does so, goes far down the road of committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (eternal sin)!

As a young Christian (in 1983), I asked the Lord Jesus to baptise my in the Holy Spirit, and He did so with the evidence of speaking in tongues...JUST like the Christians on the Day of Pentecost and those in the house of Cornelius (and every other Christian in the early Church), indeed Peter and the Jewish Christians who came with him, knew these Gentile believers had been saved and baptised in the Holy Spirit BECAUSE they spoke in tongues! Acts 2v4, 10,44-47 (esp. v46)

I had asked the Lord Jesus for the Holy Spirit, and I got the Holy Spirit (NOT some evil spirit), because the Lord Jesus and my Heavenly Father only gives GOOD GIFTS, and NOT evil gifts! Matt 7v7-11, Luke 11v9-13.

Paul valued the gift of tongues very highly, and he used it in his private prayer life more than all the verbose Corinthians, indeed, his making great use of it was the reason for his great ministry as an apostle! 1Cor 14v18, 2Cor 12v11-13, Rom 15v18-21.

So, DO NOT rubbish the "good gifts" that the Trinity has given to the Church, and cost Our Dear Lord SO MUCH to get for us! Eph 4v7-16.

So you spoke in tongues that the people around could you understand?
Laughing out of controle, rolling on the Fluor, acting and noising like animals, falling backward, lieing like death on the floor has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Evmur]

When the Holy Spirit came over them they spoke in languages and they are not falling down like death, ore have violent contortions of the body. And be serious to laugh is not the problem, but if you are driven to laugh without end and out of controle reminds me for the work of an evil spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.

This is a caricature of what happened just as in Acts the apostles were caricatured as being drunk, there were fleshly manifestations and that is unfortunate. It is to be preferred to everybody standing like statues and singing from a song sheet to "worship" God. Nobody getting saved or healed or delivered or helped.

May God deliver us from formality.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Why aren't you full of rejoicing? praising God? what has gone wrong?

"We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work."—John 9:4

 

[ResidentAlien]

This is a caricature of what happened just as in Acts the apostles were caricatured as being drunk

There were only a few who were saying they were drunk, those who were ignorant. Most however perceived something greater.

"And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, 'What does this mean?' But others mocking said, 'They are filled with new wine.' "

Evmur, I don't claim to be a teacher, but seriously, someone does need to teach you the scriptures.

 

[Aidan1]

This is a caricature of what happened just as in Acts the apostles were caricatured as being drunk, there were fleshly manifestations and that is unfortunate. It is to be preferred to everybody standing like statues and singing from a song sheet to "worship" God. Nobody getting saved or healed or delivered or helped.

May God deliver us from formality.

Those as pentecost which could not understand the foreign language called them drunken. The foreign people understood the apostles talk in their languages.
This has nothing to do with controlless laughing or roling on the ground, or shaking like be grazy.
That different cultures have different way to express Joy has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. When I was first time in india it was a culture shock. And ot was for the indian who came to germany first time, too.

 

[jb]

So you spoke in tongues that the people around could you understand?
Laughing out of controle, rolling on the Fluor, acting and noising like animals, falling backward, lieing like death on the floor has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

You're on real dangerous ground with that sarcastic evil attitude!

Obviously warnings from Scripture are not for you, because you know better!

 

[Aidan1]

You're on real dangerous ground with that sarcastic evil attitude!

Obviously warnings from Scripture are not for you, because you know better!

I am not sarcastic! Why you think Satan is called Angel of light? Why Jesus told people who cast out demons and did miracles in his name, that he dont know them?

How you can decive and catch people? Tell them you get healed, you get rich, you get power, you get authority, you get a special relationship to God. This is what often taught from pentecostal/charismatic peachers.

 

[Evmur]

Those as pentecost which could not understand the foreign language called them drunken. The foreign people understood the apostles talk in their languages.
This has nothing to do with controlless laughing or roling on the ground, or shaking like be grazy.
That different cultures have different way to express Joy has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. When I was first time in india it was a culture shock. And ot was for the indian who came to germany first time, too.

You don't know where you coming from, My father was RC to him watching a local Salvation Army band marching and singing was blasphemy, a disorderly ragbag. God is not an English gentleman or an American.

The Jews worshipped God and the glory of God was so great they fell before Him and could not stand.

You don't believe that God has had enough of formal religion do you. [while all around people are sinking ever deeper in the mire, perishing]

In the 1950s God cleared out western christianity from China, in one sweep they were gone.

Then God poured out His Holy Spirit and they have had Pentecostal revival ever since, millions have been saved. There are more christians in China today than in America.

If the Pentecostals had not come along Evangelicalism in America would be dead in the water by now. Wake up.

 

[Evmur]

I am not sarcastic! Why you think Satan is called Angel of light? Why Jesus told people who cast out demons and did miracles in his name, that he dont know them?

How you can decive and catch people? Tell them you get healed, you get rich, you get power, you get authority, you get a special relationship to God. This is what often taught from pentecostal/charismatic peachers.

or to put it in bible language
I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

That's God's will ... receive it, accept it. rejoice in it, stop grumbling about it.

 

[de-emerald]

I am not sarcastic! Why you think Satan is called Angel of light? Why Jesus told people who cast out demons and did miracles in his name, that he dont know them?

How you can decive and catch people? Tell them you get healed, you get rich, you get power, you get authority, you get a special relationship to God. This is what often taught from pentecostal/charismatic peachers.

its true a person can sudenly start laughin out loud when they have an evil spirit inflicting them. its because they get a hold of the conscience and revoke memories out of the blue with loud silent thoughts. ive had one inflicing me since i was a young baby 40 years of my life.. and ive only just fully realized the last few years.. the trouble is many other people are just as unwise to there ways as i was my friend. and they will insult what they dont know.. or if they have an inflicting spirit and you indicate that they could have one you will get attacked.. dont take it personal friend, as sadly there are many people who come to theese forums who dont know they have one.. ive seen the pattern over and over and know the signs

 

[Evmur]

There were only a few who were saying they were drunk, those who were ignorant. Most however perceived something greater.

"And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, 'What does this mean?' But others mocking said, 'They are filled with new wine.' "

Evmur, I don't claim to be a teacher, but seriously, someone does need to teach you the scriptures.

There are the mockers ... you are something different, you have fallen out with God over some matter.

 

[Aidan1]

You don't know where you coming from, My father was RC to him watching a local Salvation Army band marching and singing was blasphemy, a disorderly ragbag. God is not an English gentleman or an American.

The Jews worshipped God and the glory of God was so great they fell before Him and could not stand.

You don't believe that God has had enough of formal religion do you. [while all around people are sinking ever deeper in the mire, perishing]

In the 1950s God cleared out western christianity from China, in one sweep they were gone.

Then God poured out His Holy Spirit and they have had Pentecostal revival ever since, millions have been saved. There are more christians in China today than in America.

If the Pentecostals had not come along Evangelicalism in America would be dead in the water by now. Wake up.

I know where i come from. JESUS saved me in the age of 25, coming from protestant Background, mother was RC, thought i would be a Christian because of baby baptised, till i met real Christians which showed me what the bible says. Later I met pentecostals and charismatics, which told me i have to be baptised with the Holy Spirit for get more Power and to get a closer relationship to God, my father. Since i am saved by the Lord and recived the Holy Spirit i got the gift of discern the Spirits. Not everything whats called it is from God is realy from God. I met Christians which believe in people who teach false doctrines without realize them as wrong teaching.