Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

[F2F]

Explain it "again"? lol

You haven't explained yourself at all. You give "hints," like you're trying to lead people somewhere. Where are you trying to lead them? Why don't you plainly say what you mean?

You don't understand how God provided you salvation. The mechanic's are lost on you because you resist the Word of God and fail to enter it. You can see God raised Jesus because it was unjust the grave hold him (your words!) but you fail to see this is the very condemnation God removed in his son once he was raised. Jesus' condemned nature is the very power which held him there! God broke that power when He raised him from the dead.

It's alimentary dear watson!

 

[VARob]

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Why is there no condemnation in Christ now?

Because Christians are saved.

What did God do to remove it?

The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

We know He condemned it in a man who shared sin's flesh!

Jesus' flesh was not sinful.

But how @VARob

Previously explained.

 

[F2F]

I think you meant masquerade.

Either spelling is fine by me!

 

[F2F]

Jesus' flesh was not sinful.

Was it possible for Jesus to sin?

 

[VARob]

You don't understand how God provided you salvation.

Yes, I do. Methinks you're the one who doesn't.

The mechanic's are lost on you because you resist the Word of God and fail to enter it.

The mechanics are not lost on me. And you would be much more pleasant to talk with if you didn't revert to ad hominems. I don't resist the Word of God. Understanding it differently than you is not resisting.

You can see God raised Jesus because it was unjust the grave hold him (your words!) but you fail to see this is the very condemnation God removed in his son once he was raised. Jesus' condemned nature is the very power which held there! God broke that power when He raised him from the dead.

Jesus' nature was not condemned.

It's alimentary dear watson!

Use a dictionary, or spell-check. It's elementary.

 

[VARob]

Either spelling is fine by me!

lol

One is right, the other isn't.

 

[VARob]

Was it possible for Jesus to sin?

Yes.

 

[F2F]

Yes.

Wow - so this admission means he had your nature for only a condemned nature which has the power of sin in its members can be tempted to sin.

Sin could not have been condemned in the body of Jesus if it had not existed there.

The issue you have is understanding how it existed in Jesus.

Paul answer:

2 Corith 5:21 For our sake he (God) made him (Jesus) to be sin (i.e flesh) who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

I mean you couldn't get a clearer verse!

Notice how Paul understood the flesh to be synonymous with sin?

Why could he do that?

F2F

 

[F2F]

@VARob If God made Jesus to be sin (sin's flesh) for us who knew no sin - did Jesus require saving?

 

[VARob]

Wow - so this admission means he had your nature for only a condemned nature which has the power of sin in its members can be tempted to sin.

That's a false statement. Adam had the capacity to sin, but he did not have a sin nature until he did sin. That's when he changed.

Sin could not have been condemned in the body of Jesus if it had not existed there.

Also false, on two counts. Sin was condemned by Jesus paying the price for sin, and sin did not exist in Jesus.

The issue you have is understanding how it existed in Jesus.

It didn't exist in Jesus. Jesus Christ was without sin.

Paul answer:

2 Corith 5:21 For our sake he (God) made him (Jesus) to be sin (i.e flesh) who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

I mean you couldn't get a clearer verse!

Jesus did not "become sin." Sin is disobedience. A man cannot become disobedience. The word for "sin" there is hamartia, and while at times it does mean sin, it also means "sin offering." Jesus Christ became a sin offering. He became an offering FOR sin. Also, referring to your phrase "to be sin (i.e flesh), sin does not mean "flesh."

 

[VARob]

VARob If God made Jesus to be sin (sin's flesh) for us who knew no sin - did Jesus require saving?

God did not make Jesus to be sin, or "sin's flesh." Jesus was made a sin offering, an offering FOR sin.

 

[F2F]

God did not make Jesus to be sin, or "sin's flesh." Jesus was made a sin offering, an offering FOR sin.

Paul differs with you. Romans 8:1-3 expressly states he was made sins flesh and that God condemned sin in him.
That is without question - we are discussing how did God do that!
It looks like you are back to being without and atonement for sin!

 

[VARob]

Paul differs with you.

Sigh.... No, he doesn't. You're the one who's not getting it.

Romans 8:1-3 expressly states he was made sins flesh

That's not what it says.

and that God condemned sin his in His.

What?

It looks like you are back to being without and atonement for sin!

............

 

[F2F]

God did not make Jesus to be sin, or "sin's flesh." Jesus was made a sin offering, an offering FOR sin.

You oppose Paul again....it expressly states God made Jesus to be sin, who knew no sin!
Did Jesus need salvation?
If you say no - then you retain your god-man
If you say yes - he was held under the same condemnation as you and God freed him of that when he raised him from the dead...a resurrection the saints will also enjoy at his coming.

 

[F2F]

Here is the crux!
We need to hear your answer as to whether you believe Jesus required saving!
That really puts an end to our discussion.
Enjoy.

 

[VARob]

You oppose Paul again....

You misunderstand Paul again....

it expressly states God made Jesus to be sin,

Explained above...

who knew no sin!
Did Jesus need salvation?

No. But Jesus DID need to be rescued from death. If God had not raised him, Jesus would still be dead.

If you say no - then you retain your god-man

I don't have a "god-man."

If you say yes - he was held under the same condemnation

Jesus was not held under condemnation. He did not deserve death.

as you and God freed him of that when he raised him from the dead...

God freed Jesus from death because he was unjustly killed.

a resurrection the saints will also enjoy at his coming.

On that we agree.

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Why is there no condemnation in Christ now?
What did God do to remove it?
We know He condemned it in a man who shared sin's flesh!
But how @VARob

In Christ means one is in a saved estate, not literally in the person of Christ.

 

[VARob]

Here is the crux!
We need to hear your answer as to whether you believe Jesus required saving!
That really puts an end to our discussion.
Enjoy.

Jesus Christ did not require saving. If he had, then he would not have qualified to be God's Passover lamb, without spot or blemish.

Jesus DID require being resurrected, though. If God had not done so, Jesus would still be dead.

 

[Cameron143]

Here is the crux!
We need to hear your answer as to whether you believe Jesus required saving!
That really puts an end to our discussion.
Enjoy.

He absolutely did not.
1. We are saved from sin...He never sinned.
2. He laid down His life and had the power to raise Himself up.

 

[F2F]

You misunderstand Paul again....


Explained above...


No. But Jesus DID need to be rescued from death. If God had not raised him, Jesus would still be dead.

Jesus was not held under condemnation. He did not deserve death.


God freed Jesus from death because he was unjustly killed.


On that we agree.

@VARob

Can you read over your post here - you have contradicted yourself.

If Jesus required saving from death then he was condemned end of story!
The fact he did not deserve death is the very Victory over that condemnation
Your contradiction is clear but I'm puzzled why you cant see it.

Blue vs. red is the contradiction.

Maybe you dont understand how Paul uses the word condemned - maybe I need to explain that in more detail.

F2F