Why do some people believe and some do not?

[Magenta]

It’s funny, I very rarely hear the Calvinists (I don’t consider myself one) with vitriol against other Christians. They just win most of their arguments with Scripture.

But I noticed you didn’t address the points made in my post.

How does a dead man choose Jesus?

And how about Jesus Himself addressing the issue by telling the dead to bury their own dead?

You may find this post (<= link) interesting, in which another self-appointed defender of the truth
essentially calls Jesus a liar even though He specifically said He told parables for the very reason of
hiding the meaning of what He was saying, and that sentiment is elsewhere echoed in Scripture.

This person uses a lot of chat speak and odd book abbreviations which make reading anything he says difficult,
and he did promise that he would write everything out but of course was lying about that also as he ever did.

He maintains a website where he copy/pastes material from there for his posts here.

I have begun to wonder if some of these people are bots.

It certainly would not surprise me if they were.

 

[Magenta]

The same words are used, but to them it means something different.

Calvinists say they believe men are “responsible” but what they are really saying is "men are justly punished"

If they say "responded in faith" the part they omit is they were "first regenerated to respond in faith."

You neglect to tell us many things in every single post you make.

But of course you have given yourself permission to do that.

And it is okay for you to do that but not others. Uh huh. There is a word for that.

Men are responsible because God's revealed written word says so regardless of the lies you tell about it.

 

[cv5]

The same words are used, but to them it means something different.

Calvinists say they believe men are “responsible” but what they are really saying is "men are justly punished"

If they say "responded in faith" the part they omit is they were "first regenerated to respond in faith."

Even the simplest narrative or object lesson gets turned into an absurd unsolvable riddle. And then comes the word salad smorgasbord.

 

[HeIsHere]

Even the simplest narrative or object lesson gets turned into an absurd unsolvable riddle. And then comes the word salad smorgasbord.

Yes, I would have to agree with @Pilgrimshope akin to entering the Twilight Zone

What is the point of "faith" (trusting in God and His offer of the gift of salvation ) if one is already regenerated?

This doctrine essentially makes faith superfluous.

 

[Magenta]

What is the point of "faith" (trusting in God and His offer of the gift of salvation ) if one is already regenerated?

This doctrine essentially makes faith superfluous.

You make being sealed with the promised Holy Spirit superfluous.

Ephesians 1:13-14 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth— the gospel of your salvation—
you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption
of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[cv5]

Yes, I would have to agree with @Pilgrimshope akin to entering the Twilight Zone

What is the point of "faith" (trusting in God and His offer of the gift of salvation ) if one is already regenerated?

This doctrine essentially makes faith superfluous.

I take it that psychological battery is one of the objectives.
Another one is the intentional obfuscation of the intended truth of lesson.

 

[sawdust]

The soul is part of the body and is actually the seat of the sin nature. All sin originates in the longings of the body, including the soul/mind

For all that is in the world, the longing of the flesh, and the longing of the eyes, and the vainglory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:16​

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That which defiles a person comes out of the heart/soul, not physical flesh

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. Matthew 15:18​

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But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own longing, and enticed. Then when longing has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. James 1:14-15​

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Natural men are soulish

These be they who separate themselves, soulish, having not the Spirit. Jude 1:19​

Which is why the word separates between soul and spirit

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12​

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I disagree in part. The soul is the essence of who we are and is uniquely created by God, in His image and likeness. We are quite often called souls in scripture, never bodies or spirits.

The flesh is the seat of the sin nature and because we are disconnected from God, it easily deceives the soul into thinking along it's self serving ways. It's called "another law" in Romans 7 and it's in the body. The corruption in our DNA = sin nature.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

It is because the sin nature is in the flesh, that it is in constant opposition to God.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

If the sin nature were in the soul, our minds would be in a constant war with itself, very likely leading to a full psychotic breakdown. It's because our minds are created "innocent" (by this I mean free of the knowledge of good or evil) that when God's grace comes upon us and the truth is revealed, we can desire the good from within ourselves and not having to have it forced upon us.

The soul's functions are:
1. Conciousness (of self and others)
2. Thinking in all it's forms (ie. logic, creative, imagination)
3. Emotion
4. Conscience
5. Volition (will)

Yes, the natural man is called soulish because we are born body and soul. This is why we must be born from above. The Spirit must generate a human spirit because it is our spirit that functions as the "connector" between God and man and enables us to comprehend spiritual matters.

John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

There is a lot more that could be said but I need to go out. I'm already running behind schedule.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The corruption in our DNA = sin nature.

Can you point this out in scripture? No, of course not because it's made up by those who think sin nature resides in physical substance, which is a gnostic idea btw. Eve didn't have corrupted DNA and she sinned because she hearkened to the longings of her flesh and mind/soul

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Genesis 3:6​

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For all that is in the world, the longing of the flesh, and the longing of the eyes, and the vainglory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:16 ​

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, I would have to agree with @Pilgrimshope akin to entering the Twilight Zone

What is the point of "faith" (trusting in God and His offer of the gift of salvation ) if one is already regenerated?

This doctrine essentially makes faith superfluous.

take the term “regenerated “

theres doctrine for “regeneration “

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: ( the following is adressing those folks who have heard and believes the gospel )

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-29‬ ‭

But everyone conflates it basically erasing it and just says you receive the spirit your “ born again “ but that’s not what it means the word is how we are born again

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ……..But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we reject the gospel we could never be born again

 

[Magenta]

Can you point this out in scripture? No, of course not because it's made up by those who think sin nature resides in physical substance, which is a gnostic idea btw. Eve didn't have corrupted DNA and she sinned because she hearkened to the longings of her flesh and mind/soul

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Genesis 3:6​

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For all that is in the world, the longing of the flesh, and the longing of the eyes, and the vainglory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:16 ​

James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

 

[Magenta]

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

What need of a new man when most everything about the old man is denied?

No need of a new guy when just about everything about him is ascribed to the old one.

And then to eliminate the need for all the texts about the old guy it is further
claimed that those verses apply only to the new man and not at all to the old.

Truly the irrationality of that approach is breathtaking.

 

[sawdust]

Can you point this out in scripture? No, of course not because it's made up by those who think sin nature resides in physical substance, which is a gnostic idea btw. Eve didn't have corrupted DNA and she sinned because she hearkened to the longings of her flesh and mind/soul

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Genesis 3:6​

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For all that is in the world, the longing of the flesh, and the longing of the eyes, and the vainglory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:16 ​

I did point it out in scripture.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

If the sin nature was in the soul, our minds would not be at war with our flesh for desiring good.

The irony is the scriptures you quote corroborate exactly what I have said. The eyes (part of the body) deceive the mind for if Eve had truly known the Lord, she would have known no-one can be as wise as God.

The flesh longs to serve self and deceives the mind into thinking that this life alone is all that counts. For what is it to know God?

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Eve harkened to the serpent which is why she sinned. We don't need a serpent whispering in our ears anymore because we have an inbuilt serpent, it's called the flesh, aka sin nature.

 

[Magenta]

Eve sinned because she was deceived. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the spirit and the spirit opposes the things of the flesh... They are in conflict with each other. The text further goes on to say that they are opposed to each other in order that you should not do those things you might wish to do or want to do.

 

[cv5]

What need of a new man when most everything about the old man is denied?

No need of a new guy when just about everything about him is ascribed to the old one.

And then to eliminate the need for all the texts about the old guy it is further
claimed that those verses apply only to the new man and not at all to the old.

Truly the irrationality of that approach is breathtaking.

Anybody got five minutes to de-Calvinize this "old man new man" business?

It's gonna go down as effortlessly as that "natural man" thing did. Easy peasy.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Eve harkened to the serpent which is why she sinned. We don't need a serpent whispering in our ears anymore because we have an inbuilt serpent, it's called the flesh, aka sin nature.

Satan didn't tell Eve to do anything for her to hearken to. He seduced her by getting her into her mind where she was enticed and drawn away by her own fleshly (good for food) and soulish (pleasant to the eyes, desire to be wise) longings, which conceived and brought forth sin and death.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I did point it out in scripture.

Law in the members is DNA? No I don't think so

 

[sawdust]

No, of course not because it's made up by those who think sin nature resides in physical substance, which is a gnostic idea btw

Gnostics believe all matter is evil. I have not said our flesh or DNA is evil but rather I have consistently said there is a corruption in our body, in our DNA that is called the sin nature. It is genetically formed for flesh gives birth to flesh. (Jn.3:6)

 

[sawdust]

Satan didn't tell Eve to do anything for her to hearken to. He seduced her by getting her into her mind where she was enticed and drawn away by her own fleshly (good for food) and soulish (pleasant to the eyes, desire to be wise) longings, which conceived and brought forth sin and death.

He told her a lie and she listened to it. As it stands now, our bodies tell us lies and we listen to them. I have repeatedly stated the mind is deceived and intimated that sin is a conscious act so I really don't know what you're arguing about. You keep denying the source of temptation. For Eve it was the serpent, for us, our own flesh is the source.

 

[sawdust]

Law in the members is DNA? No I don't think so

You are not listening. I did not say the "other law" is our DNA. I said that it is in our DNA. All sin is lawlessness. There is a law at work in our DNA that God never formed in Adam's body. His original sin corrupted the workings and now it is passed on down through the line to every member of the human race.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

He told her a lie

It wasn't a lie