Why Do Christians Ignore some of Jesus' Teachings?

tourist · Dec 11, 2018

Well, seeing as how I work through weekends I would say that my higher priority at the moment is to provide for my wife.

It states clearly in Revelation that the Sabbath will continue into eternity. It is also the only commandment that states specifically to 'remember' so I would say that it holds great importance.

Personally, I believe that the Lord should be worshipped each day. I am not at all sure if keeping the Sabbath today still means to refrain from all work except that which is essential. The Sabbath means much more than just simply refraining from work on Saturday in order to devote this time in the worship of the Lord. My problem is that I don't fully understand the Sabbath and it is clear also to me that from my years on this site and reading the countless posts on the Sabbath that there is great confusion or outright denial that the Sabbath is still in effect.

No, I make no such claims as to being a Sabbath-keeper, or a Sabbatarian or any other derogatory term that is assigned. My position is that the Sabbath is still in effect and will be in the future but I am unsure what the responsibility entails in attempting to keep it. To this point I would say that I have been an abysmal failure in the keeping of this commandment. I would also say however that whether you keep it or not has no bearing on your salvation but may have a great bearing on your personal spiritual growth.

Sketch · Dec 11, 2018

tourist said:

So, you have built a lifestyle around breaking God's eternal law. Is that what you are saying?
You have put your wife above God? How can you live with yourself?
Even admitting your stunted spiritual growth. For shame.

The law does not bend to your convenience. It is kept, or it is broken.

If you truly believe the Sabbath is still in effect,
then there are only two things you can be.
1) A Sabbath-keeper
2) A Sabbath-breaker

Maybe there is a better way to look at this.
On what basis do you believe the Sabbath is still in effect?
Let's start with your reference in Revelation. Bring it.

Marcelo · Dec 11, 2018

Dino246 said:

This is what many elders in my church teach. They suppose that "Sell that ye have and give to the poor" was a commandment given exclusively to the rich young man. Of course they have to explain away why they themselves don't obey this commandment. But, ... take a look at the following verses:

Luke 12:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; (there is no rich man here).

Acts 2:45 King James Version (KJV)
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

note: The Dispensation of Grace didn't come into effect right after the crucifixion -- there was a long transition period. In Acts 2:45 the disciples were still obeying Jesus' commandment.

tourist · Dec 11, 2018

Sketch said:

I gave an honest assessment to your inquiry but it seems that you just took that as an opportunity to rip me apart so as to strut your perceived moral superiority.

It states clearly in the bible that a man must provide for his family so I am doing that the best that I can do and yes I consider that my highest priority at the moment.

Anyone that disregards God's commandments is in a state of stunted spiritual growth, yes, in this I am no different than anyone else.

I really, don't see how you can take a short post that I wrote and conclude that I have built a lifestyle around breaking God's eternal law. The law does not bend to my convenience? Really? You must consider yourself most wise to come to that conclusion. I am starting to believe that you may be a bit of a nutcase and not to be taken seriously.

Yeah, I must currently be a Sabbath breaker. Of course, even Jesus was a Sabbath breaker on certain occasions but that does not mean that the Sabbath is null and void. I already admitted that I am struggling with the whole concept of the Sabbath. Instead of attempting to be a positive force in understanding and assisting me you jumped on this opportunity to try to drag me down.

Seriously, I really don't care what you think or value your opinion.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 11, 2018

tourist said:

I gave an honest assessment to your inquiry but it seems that you just took that as an opportunity to rip me apart so as to strut your perceived moral superiority.

It states clearly in the bible that a man must provide for his family so I am doing that the best that I can do and yes I consider that my highest priority at the moment.

Anyone that disregards God's commandments is in a state of stunted spiritual growth, yes, in this I am no different than anyone else.

I really, don't see how you can take a short post that I wrote and conclude that I have built a lifestyle around breaking God's eternal law. The law does not bend to my convenience? Really? You must consider yourself most wise to come to that conclusion. I am starting to believe that you may be a bit of a nutcase and not to be taken seriously.

Yeah, I must currently be a Sabbath breaker. Of course, even Jesus was a Sabbath breaker on certain occasions but that does not mean that the Sabbath is null and void. I already admitted that I am struggling with the whole concept of the Sabbath. Instead of attempting to be a positive force in understanding and assisting me you jumped on this opportunity to try to drag me down.

Seriously, I really don't care what you think or value your opinion.

I see I am not the only one this guy rubbed the wrong way based on a false truth.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 11, 2018

Marcelo said:

I think people need to be pointed to the fact that in acts 2: 45, They the passage literally should say they WOULD sell their goods and divide amoung everyone as each one had a need.

In other words, they out the needs of others above their own, If someone needed something,someone else would sell something to take care of the other persons need.

I think people also have to remember, Later, Paul took up offerings for people in Jerusalem, because people were having their properties and goods ceased. And even the fact paul told others to give as they felt led.

If selling everything you had was required. Not many people obeyed this command.

Marcelo · Dec 11, 2018

preacher4truth said:

Consider, for example, Matthew 23:3: So you must be careful to do everything they (the scribes and the Pharisees) tell you.

Do you think Jesus was speaking figuratively? Don't you think He was telling His disciples to obey the law of Moses? Of course, we don't have to obey the law of Moses today, but back then (before the dispensation of grace came into effect) the disciples were still under the Law.

Marcelo · Dec 11, 2018

Sketch said:

Jesus did keep the Sabbath, but differently from the Pharisees. If He had broken the Law He wouldn't be called blameless and, on the other hand, if He had then already started the New Covenant, He would have said something like "Both I and my disciples are no longer under the law of Moses". But fact is that they were still under the law.

Marcelo · Dec 11, 2018

YDo said:

So, you obey ALL of Jesus commandments, right? Have you already given away your property to charity and do you obey all 613 mitzvot of Judaism?

prove-all · Dec 11, 2018

Marcelo said:

The bible does say to give to others in need [charity], but not by force.
The bible does not tell us we have to sell our property, and give to others.

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?
why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

It was theirs to do as they wished, to give or to not give.

Marcelo · Dec 11, 2018

prove-all said:

ACTS 5

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

To my understanding the above portion of Scripture just states that the property belonged to Ananias -- it doesn't say that selling or not selling was at each disciple's discretion.

Sell that ye have is not an order from the Lord Jesus?

Dino246 · Dec 11, 2018

so-jesus-e-deus said:

Have you gone to the next village and gotten a donkey? If not, you don't really believe in Jesus.

You might want to rethink that position.

Dino246 · Dec 11, 2018

Marcelo said:

I'm tempted to ask how you are accessing the internet if you truly believe this view. I'll leave that to your conscience.

We disagree. I'm not going to argue the matter further.

prove-all · Dec 11, 2018

Marcelo said:

This verse does not tell him to [ sell that ye have]

The verse clearly says the property was his before it was sold, after it was sold,
he still had the power to do what he wanted with his money.

Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? [ it belong to him before]
And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal?
[he could do what he wanted with the money after he sold it]

Not sure how a man could take care for his family,
if he gives everything he owned away.

We are blessed if we give, how can it be a gift if it was mandatory ?
Do you take care of a family ? or do you sleep on the streets poor ?

The bible says if you do not take care of those in your own family,
you would be worse then being an infidel in Gods eyes.

Sketch · Dec 11, 2018

tourist said:

You are the one who claims the Sabbath is still in effect yet you refuse to observe it.
Are you to be taken seriously?

If you really believed the Sabbath was still in effect then you would observe it.
Do you really believe God would punish you for your obedience?
What were you saying about a nutcase?

Sketch · Dec 11, 2018

Marcelo said:

Perhaps you don't know what it means to keep the Sabbath.
What is the most foundational rule about the Sabbath? No work, correct?
Look at what Jesus said about that.

John 5:16-18
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

prove-all · Dec 11, 2018

Sketch said:

Jesus Christ did not do away with the Law,

Isaiah 42:21 (KJV)
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake;
he will magnify the law, and make it honorable.
-

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;
and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be
in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in
danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:....

Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not
forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:...
-

Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on
the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

How much then is a man better than a sheep?
Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days.

tourist · Dec 11, 2018

Sketch said:

I apologize for what I called you as that was uncalled for.

I am very much an imperfect Christian. I do claim that the Sabbath is still in effect because of what I have read in scripture but it does seem that part of that observance was for the Jews only and not for Gentiles. As far as the ceasing from work on Saturday I don't see how that is even possible in todays 24/7/364 work place and still maintain my responsibility as a provider for my family.

I have been led to believe that certain individuals can be exempt such as those in the medical profession, police and armed forces and others as well depending on the job or service that they provide. I don't claim to be in any of these category's.

I am not asking you or anyone else to take me seriously as I am no better than anyone else as I am just a Christian struggling to survive in this hard world.

No, I don't believe that God would punish me for my obedience but regarding the Sabbath, I am not at all sure what form my obedience would take, but would most likely rationalize that providing for my family takes precedence over a strict observence. Whether this is right or wrong I will leave that for God to judge. I may lose reward in heaven but my salvation is secure.

Truthfully, I only serve God the best that I can because I love Him and not for any reward that I may received which, based on any works I may perform because of my faith, is probably unmerited anyway.

prove-all · Dec 11, 2018

Marcelo said:

The preceding verses in Acts 1 and 2 show that many people had traveled to Jerusalem from
various far-flung locations in the region. They had journeyed there to keep the annual Pentecost
convocation. As Christ’s disciples assembled in the temple for the observance, the Holy Spirit
came and filled them. Peter then delivered a Pentecost message, and some 3,000 people—
including many of those visiting from outside of the city—were converted and baptized into
the Christian faith. This marked the beginning of the New Testament Church.

These new converts were overjoyed to learn the truth of God, and many decided to stay in
Jerusalem longer than originally planned to learn more from the apostles and other members.
As a result, they ran out of funds and food, and were in need of help.

Consequently, of necessity, they formed a sort of community for the time being only. And whenever
some in poorer circumstances had need because of these unexpected conditions, others in better
circumstances would from time to time sell part of their goods or land and share with the less fortunate.

These early Christians were not practicing communism. They were responding to the needs of a
temporary and extraordinary situation. And they were responding to those needs with voluntary
generosity and compassion.

The Bible also shows that not all of the Church members sold their private property for this emergency.
Only some of them chose to—and only on a voluntary basis. This is clear from a conversation Peter had
with a member named Ananias who had sold some of his property. “The property was yours to sell or not
sell, as you wished,” Peter said to him. “And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away”

It is clear that Ananias—like all of these individuals—privately owned his property and could do
with it as he chose. “Here was private enterprise, and private initiative, and private ownership
—not regimented communism.

After the new converts left Jerusalem to return to their homes, this temporary “all things common”
situation ended. It is true that generosity, compassion and giving remained a central Church practice
(e.g. Acts 11:27-30; 20:35; 2 Corinthians 9:6-7; Galatians 2:10; 1 Timothy 5). But such instances of
giving were carried out by Church members only on a voluntary basis, and not at all in line with the
Communist model of state-mandated redistribution of wealth.

Sketch · Dec 11, 2018

tourist said:

Apology accepted.

My purpose was to challenge you to think about what you claimed to believe.
Was surprised at your reaction. The challenge was intentional, the offense was not.

I would be happy to help you work through this from my perspective.
Have been debating with Sabbatarians for ten years. I have this pretty well worked out.
I can answer the questions I see that you have. Let me know if you want me to walk you through it.

There is not reason for the guilt and struggle that you are putting yourself through.
On one hand you know that you are not required to keep the Sabbath.
But you seem to be unable to defend it doctrinally.

Why Do Christians Ignore some of Jesus' Teachings?

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