Let me ask you the same question. Do you believe this is telling us that we can and should reach for sinless perfection?
I think that scripture points to a state of mind that no longer is comfy in sin, because it no longer is who we are. I think it is this fact that brings sanctification and growth. We should definitely be, naturally, in Him, sinning less and less, finding new right standing norms.
I hope you are ok with me responding.
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
This scripture in no way shape or form says that we can’t sin. It says that we don’t “live” in sin. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with
him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
We ‘should not’ serve sin, thus we are still prone to, but not ‘live’ in it. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members
as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members
as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Yeah, don’t let it reign in your bodies. Don’t live in it. Don’t love it. Doesn’t mean one can be perfect. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Yup, that’s the point. Ownership changed and we have been made free from sin, but because on has been freed from sin, it doesn’t give them the right to ‘live’ in that sin either. This isn’t teaching that we can be sinless. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Amen! We conform our minds to the mind of Christ (The Word), and I guarantee you will sin “less”. This again doesn’t support that one can stop sinning. Doesn’t mean one can be perfect. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what
is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Again, it’s our responsibility to present our bodies as a living sacrifice. This is a daily sanctification in our lives that we do ourselves. This doesn’t mean one can be perfected in this life, but that one becomes more and more like Christ as our reasonable service. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man
be in Christ,
he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Amen to that! Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Amen to this perfecting ourselves in the fear of God. Perfecting ourselves is a daily and ongoing process. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Yup, the only one that walked in the Spirit 100 percent of their lives was yours truly: YESHUA! This is a factual statement.. walk in the spirit and you won’t fulfill the lusts of your flesh. Good luck doing this 100 percent perfectly. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Very good advice! How many times we provoke one another just in this Christian chat forum; going back and forth with people in these topics? Show me one person ever walked in the spirit 100 percent of their lives other than Christ Himself? Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Don’t forget the scripture before, in which, how many disputes we have in this forum? Again, key is walking in the spirit as previously stated, and I’d love to see any human do this 100 percent of the time. One would have to love just as God loved, 100 percent of the time. Sorry, but we cannot do this. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God,
even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Well, although it’s Gods will to not sin or do wrong at all, this scriptures clearly distinguishes it to be fornication. Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Amen to this too! But once again: Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!
Ultimately, we are called to be holy. We are called to stop sinning. We are called to present our live as a sacrifice unto our Lord and Savior. The teaching of sinless perfection though, will lead new believers away from the Gospel because they will never reach a point in their lives where they will be perfect and just give up. I’m strong enough and knowledgeable enough to understand that I know I cannot be perfect in this flesh. I know that no matter how hard I try, that this flesh will never be perfect enough to be sinless. Yes, I know this, but I have been in the Word for 30 years. In that 30 years, I have learned to not ‘live’ in any sin, but still doesn’t mean that I don’t sin.
If one wants to pick scriptures out of context to try and prove that we can be sinless and perfect, then here’s one for you.
1Jn 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
If you sin, you’re of the devil. Don’t care if it’s one itty, bitty, teenie, weanie sin, then scripture says that you are of the devil. Let’s look at another:
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
So, I guess nobody in this chat knows God at all. Really? Oh but you can STOP sinning… Oh, so only that one select person that has masterfully conquered their sinful flesh can judge the entire chat room and world and tell the rest of us we don’t know God at all and they do. Hmmm! I hear this a lot in these forums LOL.
How about this one.
Heb 10:26 For
if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
How many in here have sinned willfully even ONCE? Just one itty bitty white lie? Just one impure thought? Just ONE SINGLE SIN SINCE SALVATION? Guess we are all doomed to hell and heaven will be a very lonely, lonely place.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
AMEN! Some wanna say see? SEE HERE? This means that we can stop sinning and NEVER EVER SIN again. Yeah… does it say that? Don’t make it up, look it up. It doesn’t say that whatsoever. Thank you we all have an advocate or we would be in deep trouble.
If you can be sinless, then there would be no reason for Christ to be our advocate, let alone, die for our sins on that cross. This by no means that a child of the most Holy God should not strive to be as perfect and holy as Christ was. It is a life long process of having a relationship with God, reading His Word, and crucifying our flesh; conforming our minds to the mind of Christ, and to tell people they can be perfect will only push them away from a God that died for their imperfections.
And the most widely used words… “GO AND SIN NO MORE”… yeah.. to someone who was living in adultery and living in sin. STOP “LIVING” in sin. If I had to get to heaven by my own sinless perfect holy life, I would NEVER make it, and neither would ANYONE in this forum, let alone the entire world.
Sinless perfection is a teaching from hell and pulls many away from the God that died and paid for those sins.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Thus ‘sinless perfection’ not found here!