Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

[Runningman]

I never said it did. Someone was pointing out that in Luke 16 passage, that the word torment was in fact used there. I understood you as saying the word torment was not used in the Luke 16 passage. Do you admit from luke 16 there will be torment in the grave? Maybe, when we post we need to distinguish between the two. I understood the other person as saying since there is in fact torment in the grave, then we should expect the unsaved to experience torment in Hell for lack of a better word. That's all.

I'm just refuting eternal torment here in this thread. Luke 16's rich man and Lazarus aren't good verses in favor of eternal torment.

Yes there is relatively brief torment and pain in hell, as far as I can tell.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Why would you even say "So Jesus is wrong?". It's impossible for Jesus to be wrong.

Jesus was speaking of the angels of not fallen angels like spoke of and said he would be destroyed and never exist again so he isn't going to live any longer in the lake of fire than anyone else will.

Fallen angels are still angels. Angels cannot die Jesus said. That is why God created an everlasting fire for them.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

That's wrong. A spirit can die and will die along with soul and body in that fire which destroys everything that is thrown into it.

Spirits don't die. Angels cannot die. Why do you think God will cast them in the eternal fire if they will be annihilated?

 

[Runningman]

And the first part of James 2:26 defines death as separation of body and spirit. Going from that I used the rule of arguing from lesser to greater. Jesus often used this type of argument. An example was referring to the judges in Psalms as gods to referring to himself as being God's Son. We know that sin separates us from God in our life otherwise there would be no need for Jesus to die for our sins. We would be able to simply move onto a period of Sanctification under God's Power to be fit for Heaven. Because we know the Gospel, we know that we were dead in our sins. Our spirit-soul did not cease to exist therefore we were separated from God.

After you explain your reasoning, I can somewhat see how you got to your conclusion, but I think it undermines your pretense.

Opening sentence: The first part of James 2:26 defines death as separation of body and spirit.

Concluding sentence: Our spirit-soul did not cease to exist therefore we were separated from God.

I think you're conflating two kinds of death: bodily death and spiritual death.

James 2:26 is about bodily death. The body dies without a spirit.

James 2:26 KJV
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.J

John 8:24 is about spiritual death, but it does not mean that someone has been judged by God to death, yet.

John 8:24 KJV
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

This means that if judgment has not yet occured then spiritual death has not yet occured. If everyone's spirit died as soon as they sinned then the body without the spirit would die. The Earth would be completely void of humans.

 

[ewq1938]

Fallen angels are still angels. Angels cannot die Jesus said.

He was speaking of God's angels not and his angels. I already posted two scriptures say will be destroyed and not exist. IF happens to him, his angels will share same fate.

That is why God created an everlasting fire for them.

God is a consuming fire, so of course the fire is everlasting but those cast into lake of fire are not everlasting.

 

[ewq1938]

Spirits don't die. Angels cannot die.

The spirits of unsaved will die, and fallen angels will also die.

Why do you think God will cast them in the eternal fire if they will be annihilated?

Because they will not be allowed to exist any more.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

The spirits of unsaved will die, and fallen angels will also die.



Because they will not be allowed to exist any more.

They will be tormented forever and will have no rest day and night. Rest is to stop existing.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

He was speaking of God's angels not and his angels. I already posted two scriptures say will be destroyed and not exist. IF happens to him, his angels will share same fate.




God is a consuming fire, so of course the fire is everlasting but those cast into lake of fire are not everlasting.

They cannot die therefore they are everlasting. Destroyed as in keep burning forever. No rest day and night. Rest means stop existing.

Are you a jehovahs witness? You believe in the annihilation doctrine. Do you also believe that Jesus is not God?

 

[ewq1938]

They cannot die therefore they are everlasting.

What scripture says that?

Are you a jehovahs witness?

No, are you a jehovahs witness?

You believe in the annihilation doctrine.

Only because it is biblically supported.

Do you also believe that Jesus is not God?

Of course is Jesus is God look at my signature which proves Jesus is God on every post a make:


Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Rev 21:7
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God and Christ was that same Rock
Ps 78:35, 1 Cor 10:4


Your question is clearly a terrible question. Pay more attention to what is a persons post so you can avoid dumb questions.


Are you a jehovahs witness??

 

[Gideon300]

Which verse says anyone spends eternity in hell?



That story doesn't even mention eternal torment.



John 5:29 isn't talking about eternal torment though. The dead are resurrected to be judged. Fast forward to Revelation 20's GWTJ passage. The resurrecton of the dead results in their second death upon being cast into the LOF.

The are resurrected to judgment and their judgment is death. It doesn't say their judgment is eternal torment.

What is death? It is not the end of existence, that is for sure. So when does the wailing and gnashing of teeth stop? I'd be happy if no one ever went to hell, not even Stalin, Hitler or Bin Laden. But God's righteousness is absolute. People have a choice. They get to live with it for eternity.

 

[Gideon300]

They cannot die therefore they are everlasting. Destroyed as in keep burning forever. No rest day and night. Rest means stop existing.

Are you a jehovahs witness? You believe in the annihilation doctrine. Do you also believe that Jesus is not God?

Seventh Day Adventists also believe in annihilation of the soul. They reject the truth that man is a spirit being, not just a soul and a body.

 

[ewq1938]

What is death? It is not the end of existence, that is for sure.

Not quite. The first death not the end of existence BUT the second death is.

So when does the wailing and gnashing of teeth stop? I'd be happy if no one ever went to hell, not even Stalin, Hitler or Bin Laden. But God's righteousness is absolute. People have a choice. They get to live with it for eternity.

They will "live" with a permanent and eternal death with no chance of a resurrection.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Not quite. The first death not the end of existence BUT the second death is.





They will "live" with a permanent and eternal death with no chance of a resurrection.

God already described clearly what is the second death. It is the lake of fire itself. They will be tormented forever day and night with no rest. Rest means annihilation.

 

[Kidron]

Give him the ??? of being Seventh Day Adventist. They are brothers in Christ.

Being a denomination does not prove you are a "brother".
Being born again proves you are a brother.
Anything else need not apply for that title.

Also, being "water baptized" does not make you a brother.
It just makes you wet.

 

[Kidron]

That's not what the bible tells us.

?

The devil is going to be released after the 1000 Yr reign of Christ, and following that season, he'll end up in the place that was designed for Him that is also occupied by every Christ Rejector.

 

[mindfulzen]

I have always been close to God my entire life and the God I know does not plan to torment people who reject him for all eternity. I know what is taught and the scriptures that those who teach this use, can you tell me how a wonderful and loving God would torment forever. Putting something bad to sleep forever and out of its misery, like a dog with rabies, is merciful. Please explain without scripture (because I know the verses well) ...explain by your experience and relationship with God what he revealed to you about this. I don't understand, the God I know is not like this. I do believe there is a judgment and evil people who reject him will not have a good end, but not that way.

It is not God who torments, the devil reigns in hell. So you choose it yourself. Either you are claimed by God or the devil. You were given a choice. Choose wisely. God only intervenese, and the it is up to you. The holy spirit marks you as a lamb of God, then you must give your life over to him. Easy choice.

 

[lastofall]

Unfortunately the god you believe in is not the true and living God, but rather is the god of this world who deceives the minds of them which believe not: but alas, you are convinced that your god is the true god, therefore all that remains is what shall take place at the last day, when judgment does come.
Wherefore do you even come on a Christian site if you do not believe in our God? the concept you speak of is for unbelievers, and not believers.

 

[Runningman]

What is death? It is not the end of existence, that is for sure. So when does the wailing and gnashing of teeth stop? I'd be happy if no one ever went to hell, not even Stalin, Hitler or Bin Laden. But God's righteousness is absolute. People have a choice. They get to live with it for eternity.

If the Bible refers to those who never die as having experienced death then that's a contradiction to me. Either someone is dead or they are alive; there's no other options.

The writers of the Bible should have used an entirely different word than death in this case; death should be replaced with eternal life. They didn't say eternal life, right?

Only those who are saved receive eternal life. Do we agree on this? That seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Aaron56]

If the Bible refers to those who never die as having experienced death then that's a contradiction to me. Either someone is dead or they are alive; there's no other options.

The writers of the Bible should have used an entirely different word than death in this case; death should be replaced with eternal life. They didn't say eternal life, right?

Only those who are saved receive eternal life. Do we agree on this? That seems pretty clear to me.

Man is made up of three parts: body, soul, and spirit. The spirit cannot die, only the soul and body can die. The death you are referencing is the death of the soul. When we “die to ourselves” we surrender our right to direct our own lives and become subject to the rule of the Lord.

 

[Runningman]

Man is made up of three parts: body, soul, and spirit. The spirit cannot die, only the soul and body can die. The death you are referencing is the death of the soul. When we “die to ourselves” we surrender our right to direct our own lives and become subject to the rule of the Lord.

Upon bodily death the body returns to dust and the spirit returns to God, assuming the spirit is righteous of course. (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

If that's true then the it is inferred that unrighteous spirits do not return to God. The spirits that do not return to God are sent to hell. In hell, there's no such thing as eternal life for the body, soul, or spirit.

The below verses refer to spiritual death:


Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:1
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Thessalonians 1:9
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The only way to avoid a spiritual death is through a spiritual rebirth:

John 3:3
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.