Why did Noah curse his grandson before God?

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ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
#62
Hi!

No. Check the geneology...
WHY would Noah curse his g-son and not Ham? Because he saw his mother naked?
Seeing it is not a sin which is why Ham was not cursed or shown any anger at all.

Anyways, you can't curse someone who doesn't exist. and whose name you couldn't know. Ham had his children after the flood and this terrible event happened long after the flood and they all were well established in their new place and home. The text doesn't tell us how old Canaan was but he was old enough to commit this crime.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
#63
To uncover your father's nakedness is an idiom to have sexual relations with either Noah or Noah's wife (Leviticus 18). Because the other two brothers walked backwards to cover the nakedness it means that they were covering up Noah's wife (no one was that prudish in those days if it was actually referring to Noah). The fact that Noah learned about this when he woke up proves his wife was raped and she told him what happened. Why Ham did this, who knows
You got most of this right as a rape did happen but the text blames Canaan not Ham. Ham was involved in helping situation, mainly seeking help from his older brothers. Again, seeing the nakedness is not a crime. It's the one who uncovered nakedness that committed crime. Obviously the fact that the text tells us that Ham only saw it means it was already uncovered. Plus, if Ham had raped his mother, he wouldn't have told his brothers about it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,176
30,317
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#64
Leviticus 18
6
None of you are to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.


7 You must not expose the nakedness of your father by having sexual relations with
your mother. She is your mother; you must not have sexual relations with her.


8 You must not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; it would dishonor your father.

9 You must not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 You must not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter
or your daughter’s daughter, for that would shame your family.


11 You must not have sexual relations with the daughter
of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.


12 You must not have sexual relations with your
father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.


13 You must not have sexual relations with your
mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s close relative.


14 You must not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching
his wife to have sexual relations with her; she is your aunt.


15 You must not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She
is your son’s wife; you are not to have sexual relations with her.


16 You must not have sexual relations with your
brother’s wife; that would shame your brother.


17 You must not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter.
You are not to marry her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter and have
sexual relations with her. They are close relatives; it is depraved.


18 You must not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and
have sexual relations with her while your wife is still alive.


19 You must not approach a woman to have
sexual relations with her during her menstrual period.


20 You must not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife and thus defile yourself with her.

21 You must not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech,
for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.


22 You must not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination.

23 You must not lie carnally with any animal, thus defiling yourself with it;
a woman must not stand before an animal to mate with it; that is a perversion.


24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these practices, for by all these things the nations
I am driving out before you have defiled themselves. 25Even the land has become defiled,
so I am punishing it for its sin, and the land will vomit out its inhabitants.


26 But you are to keep My statutes and ordinances, and you must not commit any of
these abominations—neither your native-born nor the foreigner who lives among you.
27 For the men who were in the land before you committed all these abominations, and
the land has become defiled. 28 So if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it spewed
out the nations before you.


29 Therefore anyone who commits any of these abominations must be cut off from among his people.
30 You must keep My charge not to practice any of the abominable customs that were practiced before
you, so that you do not defile yourselves by them. I am the LORD your God.”
 
Jan 7, 2022
146
15
18
#65
.
It's not unusual for God to take out his displeasure with a man's conduct
indirectly, e.g. his property, his children, his livestock, his freedom, his
livelihood, and/or whatever else pertains to him. For example: David's
punishment in the matter of his affair with Bathsheba was the death of their
first child; and there was a famine in Israel not because of anything the Jews
did to desrve it, but for king Saul breaking a treaty with the Gibeonites;
which also eventuated in the hanging of seven of his sons.


If truth be known, the Jews were caught up in the Holocaust due to the sins
of their ancestors rather than their own sins.


Ex 34:6-7 . .So Jehovah passed before him and proclaimed: Jehovah,
Jehovah, a God gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in love
and fidelity, continuing his love for a thousand generations, and forgiving
wickedness, rebellion, and sin; yet not declaring the guilty guiltless, but
bringing punishment for their parents’ wickedness on children and children’s
children to the third and fourth generation.
_
Or not......

Ezekiel 18
20 The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent’s sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child’s sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous
behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#66
.
Ex 34:6-7 and Ezek 18:20 don't cancel each other. The first speaks of
collateral damage, whereas the second speaks of inherited guilt.

As an example of collateral damage: something like 120,000 underage
children would've been destroyed thru no fault of their own had not the
adults in Nineveh responded to Jonah's preaching. (Jonah 4:11)
_