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the context is that the whole earth had just been devastated by a flood, because of the incredibly evil things mankind had been doing on the earth, which produced nephilim -- that 8 humans were saved, and later we find eerily similar anakim who lived in the land of Canaan. the context is that those things before the flood have deep ties with what happened in Sodom & in Gibeah, and it's quite a bit more terrible than sexual deviance.
the context is that Noah, upon leaving the ark, praised God, that God made a covenant with him and with every living soul, and then Noah proceeded to go about making wine from scratch. some seeds and some soil.
Noah making wine isn't like, oh, on tuesday he plants a grape, by friday he is drinking a gallon of it and falling asleep.
this takes a lot of time and effort. time and effort that Ham was aware of. Noah has been looking forward to the day he can enjoy the fruits of his harvest, and Ham knows it. there are at minimum 4 years and as many as 10 between Noah planting a grape vine and Noah drinking its fruit. verse 20 is telling us something important.
i don't think the text indicates this is an accident, at all; quite the opposite, from the context -- and that is a significant thing given the shallow interpretation @Pilgrimshope related.
the context is that Noah, upon leaving the ark, praised God, that God made a covenant with him and with every living soul, and then Noah proceeded to go about making wine from scratch. some seeds and some soil.
Noah making wine isn't like, oh, on tuesday he plants a grape, by friday he is drinking a gallon of it and falling asleep.
this takes a lot of time and effort. time and effort that Ham was aware of. Noah has been looking forward to the day he can enjoy the fruits of his harvest, and Ham knows it. there are at minimum 4 years and as many as 10 between Noah planting a grape vine and Noah drinking its fruit. verse 20 is telling us something important.
i don't think the text indicates this is an accident, at all; quite the opposite, from the context -- and that is a significant thing given the shallow interpretation @Pilgrimshope related.
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or Canaan was the product of something awful - the text tells us Ham did something, and Ham's son is accursed because of it
if there are years between v.20 & v.21
Noah planted a vineyard.. Noah drank its wine until he was drunk
how much time is between v.24 & v.25 ?
Noah knew what Ham had done.. Noah cursed Canaan
how do you make an anakim?
why would you make an anakim?
where would you get the idea?
if there are years between v.20 & v.21
Noah planted a vineyard.. Noah drank its wine until he was drunk
how much time is between v.24 & v.25 ?
Noah knew what Ham had done.. Noah cursed Canaan
how do you make an anakim?
why would you make an anakim?
where would you get the idea?
Okay...
God is good all the time. God is so busy being good He doesn't have time to be bad.
Noah walked with God...mean they had similar goals and actions....
Noah did NOT curse Canaan.
Ham did that.
Noah proclaimed the truth of the future. That Ham's attitudes and behaviors were going to curse his own son...we are a product of our parents.
A father eats sour Grapes and his children's teeth are set on edge.
Generational "curses" are enacted by parentage.
God is good all the time. God is so busy being good He doesn't have time to be bad.
Noah walked with God...mean they had similar goals and actions....
Noah did NOT curse Canaan.
Ham did that.
Noah proclaimed the truth of the future. That Ham's attitudes and behaviors were going to curse his own son...we are a product of our parents.
A father eats sour Grapes and his children's teeth are set on edge.
Generational "curses" are enacted by parentage.
To uncover your father's nakedness is an idiom to have sexual relations with either Noah or Noah's wife (Leviticus 18). Because the other two brothers walked backwards to cover the nakedness it means that they were covering up Noah's wife (no one was that prudish in those days if it was actually referring to Noah). The fact that Noah learned about this when he woke up proves his wife was raped and she told him what happened. Why Ham did this, who knows? Also had it been Ham's mother I think that would have been mentioned so it is doubtful it was his mother.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
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honestly I have no clue what your point is the fact is Noah was passed out drunk one son saw him in that state and went and told the others . The other two went in and purposely didn’t look upon tbier fetbers shame but instead covered over his shame
I’m not at all connecting anything your saying to how it’s shallow to just note what’s there
Noah got drunk and passed out naked that’s a fact one son saw it and didn’t do anything to cover it over instead he went and spread the news of his fathers shame
it’s strange that he’s the one who’s line is now cursed and doesn’t seem shallow at all seems Like just what’s simply written there to me but you know “how wine is made “ makes all the difference …..or does it have any relevance at all to what Noah did and what his some then did ?
Canaan was cursed because of what his father did regarding Noah . I don’t think your seeing also God didn’t curse Canaan Noah cursed him it wasn’t Noah blaming his own self it was Noah upset for what Canaan’s farther did
I’m not at all connecting anything your saying to how it’s shallow to just note what’s there
Noah got drunk and passed out naked that’s a fact one son saw it and didn’t do anything to cover it over instead he went and spread the news of his fathers shame
it’s strange that he’s the one who’s line is now cursed and doesn’t seem shallow at all seems Like just what’s simply written there to me but you know “how wine is made “ makes all the difference …..or does it have any relevance at all to what Noah did and what his some then did ?
Canaan was cursed because of what his father did regarding Noah . I don’t think your seeing also God didn’t curse Canaan Noah cursed him it wasn’t Noah blaming his own self it was Noah upset for what Canaan’s farther did
i mean you calling Noah in transgression & shame and your idea that Ham's son is cursed by Noah because Ham was the only one who didn't turn a blind eye to evil Noah.
i mean the weird shallow interpretation of the scriptures you posted.
you called Noah evil and full of sin.
why would you say that God honored what Noah said about Canaan if ((per your narrative)) Noah is indeed the one who is in the wrong, 'hiding his iniquity' and Ham is the one who 'did not cover them but exposed his father's sin' ?
i mean the weird shallow interpretation of the scriptures you posted.
you called Noah evil and full of sin.
why would you say that God honored what Noah said about Canaan if ((per your narrative)) Noah is indeed the one who is in the wrong, 'hiding his iniquity' and Ham is the one who 'did not cover them but exposed his father's sin' ?
the curse that is causeless, shall not come
(Proverbs 26:2)
you seem to have the idea Noah is the one who should be cursed, because he spent years growing a vineyard and then enjoyed its fruit?but what does the Bible say? does Canaan become the servant of his brothers?
did God honor a wicked lying blame-shift curse from licentious Noah? is that what you see here?
Genesis 9 is nothing but a weirdly oblique warning not to drink wine?
how did anakim wind up in Canaan?
why did God command Joshua to exterminate & drive out the Canaanites & not to intermarry with them?
is that just coincidence?
but you said Noah was in transgression.
so if Noah was righteous, he should have thanked Ham for helping him face his supposed 'sin' of drinking wine.
which makes Noah evil, in your version.
suppose you catch me in hidden unrepentant sin, and you expose it -- and then i curse your children for doing so.
does that make me good?
does God honor my wicked unrepentant curse?
see dude, that narrative doesn't fit.
Noah is not in sin here. Noah is a type. this is written to us so that it can teach us about Christ.
did Christ ever say anything about planting a vineyard?
is that anything like the kingdom of heaven?
the text tells us strangely, twice, that Ham is the father of Canaan. Shem & Japheth have sons too - heck Ham has other sons.
so why is God telling us Ham is Canaan's father? isn't that a bit odd?
seems almost like we're about to learn something about the origin of Canaan.
so if Noah was righteous, he should have thanked Ham for helping him face his supposed 'sin' of drinking wine.
which makes Noah evil, in your version.
suppose you catch me in hidden unrepentant sin, and you expose it -- and then i curse your children for doing so.
does that make me good?
does God honor my wicked unrepentant curse?
see dude, that narrative doesn't fit.
Noah is not in sin here. Noah is a type. this is written to us so that it can teach us about Christ.
did Christ ever say anything about planting a vineyard?
is that anything like the kingdom of heaven?
the text tells us strangely, twice, that Ham is the father of Canaan. Shem & Japheth have sons too - heck Ham has other sons.
so why is God telling us Ham is Canaan's father? isn't that a bit odd?
seems almost like we're about to learn something about the origin of Canaan.
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“you called Noah evil and full of sin. “
Um no that’s your addition. Noah was righteous .
step Back a moment and read what I wrote
I said in response to the ops inquiry as to why Noah cursed his grandson Canaan .
my view is Noah got drunk on wine and passed out naked .
“And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
….And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.”
Genesis 9:18-19, 21 KJV
I agree .
I also said that ham Canaan’s father saw his fathers moment of Shame and nakedness and rather than quickly covering his fathers nakedness (which is biblically a great shame , )
instead he went and spread the news of his fathers moment of weakness “ hey brothers guess what , dads passed out naked and drunk in the tent from too
Much wine “
Is hams fault against Noah , Noah isn’t judged by Moses law but he had found grace
“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.”
Genesis 6:8
when God decided to destroy all flesh he looked upon Noah with grace and Moses law is yet hundreds of years away from being given.
“Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
Romans 4:15 KJV
there was no word about having too much wine , but reverence for elders and fathers and blessings and cursing between father and son was well established from creation
So Noah isn’t in transgression because he has too
Much wine and passed out in his own tent uncovered there was no law against it but it was a shameful moment for Noah
it is ham that transgressed against Noah in the reverence and regard he had for Noah the patriarch of the living left after the floods
Your not understanding, I’m saying ham did wrong to Noah , and so Noah cursed hams bloodline and descendants because of it. I don’t think it’s a wierd interpretation to say that he was a “ ham-head” about the situation and got cursed 😂 especially when you then nite the land of Canaan in scripture and the canaanites who came later.
“Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this is the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, even the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof”
Numbers 34:2 KJV
but the other two which Noah blessed they did something different they didn’t look upon Noah as ham , they intentionally didn’t want to see thier fathers shameful circumstance and didn’t allow for others to see it and further talk about him the reverenced Noah ham didn’t he spread the news of his shame.
Noah was definately right before God and approved in fact he is noted to Be especially righteous with job Who also lived before Moses law and Daniel who was told of the new kingdom to come
“Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.”
Ezekiel 14:14 KJV
but if you look on scripture being” sinless “ isn’t what righteous means . Noah did this , Abram lied about Sarai , Moses killed a man , David committed adultery and killed and after those men live and die God says they were righteous and did what was right.
“
Even though David committed adultery and caused a just man to be killed unjustly to cover his own sin even though he broke multiple laws coveting , adultery , plotting , and intentional homicide .
After David lived and died God says he did only that which was right and kept his commandments and followed him with all his heart . Gods testimony of David is what matters he approves David’s life pardoned his sins and called him righteous after he lived and died And he answered David’s repentance over his sins
if I said Noah was not righteous I’m absolutely wrong , what I’m saying is he was passed out drunk on wine and was in a state of shame for a Man like himself
and Canaan was cursed because of what ham did.
now consider the land of Canaan and the people of Canaan and thier relationship with God later in the Bible. And it trails right back to this transgression by ham the father of Canaan through whom a third of the earth was established when there were three sons of Noah who began to establish the nations of today.
this may seem wacky to you but It makes good sense in my head anyways God bless
Um no that’s your addition. Noah was righteous .
step Back a moment and read what I wrote
I said in response to the ops inquiry as to why Noah cursed his grandson Canaan .
my view is Noah got drunk on wine and passed out naked .
“And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
….And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.”
Genesis 9:18-19, 21 KJV
I agree .
I also said that ham Canaan’s father saw his fathers moment of Shame and nakedness and rather than quickly covering his fathers nakedness (which is biblically a great shame , )
instead he went and spread the news of his fathers moment of weakness “ hey brothers guess what , dads passed out naked and drunk in the tent from too
Much wine “
Is hams fault against Noah , Noah isn’t judged by Moses law but he had found grace
“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.”
Genesis 6:8
when God decided to destroy all flesh he looked upon Noah with grace and Moses law is yet hundreds of years away from being given.
“Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
Romans 4:15 KJV
there was no word about having too much wine , but reverence for elders and fathers and blessings and cursing between father and son was well established from creation
So Noah isn’t in transgression because he has too
Much wine and passed out in his own tent uncovered there was no law against it but it was a shameful moment for Noah
it is ham that transgressed against Noah in the reverence and regard he had for Noah the patriarch of the living left after the floods
Your not understanding, I’m saying ham did wrong to Noah , and so Noah cursed hams bloodline and descendants because of it. I don’t think it’s a wierd interpretation to say that he was a “ ham-head” about the situation and got cursed 😂 especially when you then nite the land of Canaan in scripture and the canaanites who came later.
“Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this is the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, even the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof
”Numbers 34:2 KJV
but the other two which Noah blessed they did something different they didn’t look upon Noah as ham , they intentionally didn’t want to see thier fathers shameful circumstance and didn’t allow for others to see it and further talk about him the reverenced Noah ham didn’t he spread the news of his shame.
Noah was definately right before God and approved in fact he is noted to Be especially righteous with job Who also lived before Moses law and Daniel who was told of the new kingdom to come
“Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.”
Ezekiel 14:14 KJV
but if you look on scripture being” sinless “ isn’t what righteous means . Noah did this , Abram lied about Sarai , Moses killed a man , David committed adultery and killed and after those men live and die God says they were righteous and did what was right.
“
Even though David committed adultery and caused a just man to be killed unjustly to cover his own sin even though he broke multiple laws coveting , adultery , plotting , and intentional homicide .
After David lived and died God says he did only that which was right and kept his commandments and followed him with all his heart . Gods testimony of David is what matters he approves David’s life pardoned his sins and called him righteous after he lived and died And he answered David’s repentance over his sins
if I said Noah was not righteous I’m absolutely wrong , what I’m saying is he was passed out drunk on wine and was in a state of shame for a Man like himself
and Canaan was cursed because of what ham did.
now consider the land of Canaan and the people of Canaan and thier relationship with God later in the Bible. And it trails right back to this transgression by ham the father of Canaan through whom a third of the earth was established when there were three sons of Noah who began to establish the nations of today.
this may seem wacky to you but It makes good sense in my head anyways God bless