When was the Messiah put in the grave? and when did He resurrect?

beta · Oct 27, 2017

No it does not seem wrong according to human reasoning but we should proceed as GOD directs....
starting with the foundation, at the bottom. Skipping the Sabbath as if it were of no importance is not the way to please, love or obey GOD.
Look at Jesus/Yashuah who even as a Son had to learn obedience....and we no less ! Heb5v8,9.
Without sound foundation we will not be able to stand.

trofimus · Oct 27, 2017

beta said:

We stand by God's grace, not by observing Jewish Sabbath.

Our sound foundation is Christ and the faith in Him, not the Old Testament Sabbath.

beta · Oct 27, 2017

trofimus said:

well, there you go...to you it is a jewish thing even tho GOD says 'it is the Sabbath of the LORD and Jesus/Yashuah is Lord of it !
Did Jesus/Yashuah not keep the Sabbath and Commandments ? apparently the christian jesus coming from Rome does not...which are you following ?

Christians are so gullible even to the point of ignoring scripture Mat 24v4,5 Yashuah's own words and warning !!!

trofimus · Oct 27, 2017

beta said:

well, there you go...to you it is a jewish thing even tho GOD says 'it is the Sabbath of the LORD and Jesus/Yashuah is Lord of it !
Did Jesus/Yashuah not keep the Sabbath and Commandments ? apparently the christian jesus coming from Rome does not...which are you following ?

Christians are so gullible even to the point of ignoring scripture Mat 24v4,5 Yashuah's own words and warning !!!

Jesus was born as a Jew.

beta · Oct 27, 2017

trofimus said:

Seems you don't know what you are saying !

trofimus · Oct 27, 2017

beta said:

Seems you do not understand the purpose of the Old Testament.

Stunnedbygrace · Oct 27, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Oh...I hadn't considered what I posted as a woman thing...

In fact, I think in my mind I was thinking you were a woman because you are gentle.

It can be a woman or a man thing to love your family and want to lighten their workload.

I guess its more a servant thing than a gender thing...

Anyway, carry on.

Adstar · Oct 27, 2017

I believe Jesus was buried on Wednesday the 3rd of April 30 bc in the late afternoon just before sunset..
I believe Jesus was raised from the dead on Saturday the 6th of April 30 bc at sunset..

Resurrection When?

Hizikyah · Oct 27, 2017

beta said:

Thakn you and glory to Yah! I grew up being taught different and it was a task just considering this one matter, yet it was well worth it, and the truth certianly sets one free, and every bit of truth of Yah we can understand is a wonderful gem that helps us draw closer to Him! halleluYah!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 2:1-5, “My son, if you accept my words, And treasure up my commands with you, So that you make your ear attend to wisdom, Incline your heart to understanding; For if you cry for discernment, Lift up your voice for understanding, If you seek her as silver, And search for her as hidden treasures, Then you would understand the fear of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And find the knowledge of Yah.”[/FONT]

phil36 · Oct 27, 2017

A good resource for the timeline is here:

Which still shows Sunday as the first day

It also explains the Jewish counting of Three days and Nights...

https://carm.org/how-long-was-jesus-dead-tomb

Hizikyah · Oct 27, 2017

trofimus said:

beta said:

Well taking joy in what He says is not against His mercy in any way, the thought that if I obey Him Im somehow rejecting mercy is a very odd thought indeed.

trofimus said:

Actually the Sabbath was alys for all followers of YHWH no matter their race, it would be silly to have different ways for different races, the Most High would not be righteous and fair if He weighed people differently;

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 10:34-35, “And opening his mouth, Kĕpha said, “Truly I see that Yah shows no partiality, but in every nation, he who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.”
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Oct 27, 2017

Adstar said:

Very interesting. I have not yet continued on to that deep in the study of the exact date, but now I have interest.... Thank you! praiseYah!

phil36 · Oct 27, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Hi Hizikyah,

Where does it state a literal three days and nights as in our modern thinking?

Hizikyah · Oct 27, 2017

phil36 said:

Yes this is rabbinic/pharisee time reckoning, not YHWH's

Leviticus 23:32, "It is a Sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your beings. On the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you observe your Sabbath.”

If any part of a day could be a day, Scripture would have said/allowed that, Scripture clearly says, sunset to sunset is a day;

Quote from that article;
"The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day.1 "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the 'three days and three nights' could permit a Friday crucifixion."

This is the resource that got the information from;
1. Jamieson, R., A. R. Fausset, and D. Brown, A Commentary, Critical and Explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments, Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, 1997.

The Jamieson, R., A. R. Fausset, and D. Brown, A Commentary, Critical and Explanatory got the information from the Talmud. A book that says some of the most vile things I have ever heard about Yahshua/Jesus.

It is still beyond me how anyone could consult literal pharisees to prove their point, especially when what they say is in direct opposition to Yahshua/Jesus.

Mat 12:40, “For as Yahnah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

OK so here are 2 Jewish sources that are also using the Talmud;

The Encyclopedia Judaica, Day;

In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time.

Jewish Encyclopedia, DAY (Hebrew, "yom");

In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar). "The day" denotes: (a) Day of the Lord; (b) the Day of Atonement; (c) the treatise of the Mishnah that contains the laws concerning the Day of Atonement (See Yoma and Sabbath).

The Talmud they sourced it from is coming up, but first lets get a little insight into who the writers of the Talmud are;

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them; And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

King James Bible - Mat 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud. The Savior said this to the Pharisees;

Mat 23:8, “But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi, (master)’ for One is your Master, the Messiah, and you are all brothers.”

Matt 23:33, "Serpents! Brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of Gehenna?"

Yahshua EXPOSED the Pharisees and their false religious system EVERY CHANCE HE GOT. He did not sit by and let people lies many need to re-read the words of the Messiah, and see how He tore apart the lies of the accepted religious system of that day every chance He had, Is it possible we today have the same issue, where main stream religions are teaching tradition rather than truth?

Mat 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14)* prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

Here is one of 3 entries that I know of that give their view which they then consider “law”

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Nazir

Folio 15a
[Defilement] is different, for the All-Merciful Law says, And he defile his consecrated head,1 showing that [the penalty for defilement lies] wherever the nazirite ship depends on the head.2

An objection was raised: A nazirite who has completed his period is forbidden to poll, or drink wine, or have contact with the dead. Should he poll or drink wine, or have contact with the dead he is to receive the forty stripes. [This is] a refutation of R. Jose son of R. Hanina.

MISHNAH. [SHOULD A MAN SAY.] 'I UNDERTAKE TO BECOME A NAZIRITE WHEN I SHALL HAVE A SON, AND TO BE A NAZIRITE FOR ONE HUNDRED DAYS [ON MY OWN ACCOUNT],' AND A SON BE BORN TO HIM BEFORE THE EXPIRATION OF SEVENTY DAYS, HE LOSES NONE OF THIS PERIOD;3 BUT IF AFTER SEVENTY DAYS, THESE SEVENTY DAYS ARE VOID, SINCE THERE CAN BE NO POLLING FOR LESS THAN THIRTY DAYS.4

GEMARA. Rab said: The seventieth day itself is reckoned as part of both periods.5

We learnt: IF [A SON] BE BORN TO HIM BEFORE THE EXPIRATION OF SEVENTY DAYS, HE LOSES NONE OF THIS PERIOD. Now if you assume that [the day of birth] is reckoned as part of both periods, [not only does he not lose but] he actually profits!6 — Strictly speaking there should have been no mention of the period-before the seventieth day,7 but because it says in the subsequent clause [of the Mishnah], that [birth] after the seventieth day renders these seventy days void, the period before the seventieth day is mentioned in the first clause.”

These are their supposed “Scriptural” proofs for their claims, I don’t see it...

Exodus 21:21, "“But if he remains alive a day or two, he is not punished; for he is his property."

Nehemiah 4:15-17, "4:15, "And it came to be, when our enemies heard that it was known to us, and that Elohim had brought their counsel to naught, that all of us returned to the wall, everyone to his work."4:16, "And it came to be, from that time on, that half of my servants were working in the work, while the other half were holding the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the breastplates. And the rulers were behind all the house of Yehuḏah,"4:17, "who were building on the wall, and those bearing burdens, those loading, working with one hand in the work, and with the other holding a weapon."

Leviticus 7:15, "‘As for the flesh of the slaughtering of his peace offerings for thanksgiving, it is eaten the same day it is offered, he does not leave any of it until morning."

So if one takes this “part of a day as a day” they are actually following

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

It is ironic too because when someone follows the Scripture people call them a “pharisee” and yet people that say this seem to have no clue what the pharisees actually did.

Hizikyah · Oct 27, 2017

phil36 said:

I like how you slipped "modern thinking" into that...

According to the Creator of the Heavens and Earth I measure a day;

Berĕshith/Genesis 1:5, " And Yah called the light ‘day’ and the darkness He called ‘night.’ And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the first day."

Exodus 12:18, "In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall eat unleavened bread until the twenty-first day of the month in the evening."

Leviticus 23:32, "It is a Sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your beings. On the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you observe your Sabbath.”

"evening" is word # H6153. ereb - Strong's Concordance: ereb: evening, Original Word: עָ֫רֶב, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: ereb, Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-reb), Short Definition: evening

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) -
1) evening, night, sunset, 1a) evening, sunset, 1b) night

Once we know what a day is according to Father YHWH we can

1. Understand the difference between His day and any other measurement of a "day"

2. I think it is same to assume that Yahshua/Jesus followed His Father's day and not the "day" of the pharisees

3. We can look at His words directly;

Mat 12:40, “For as Yahnah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

Why wouls He say the only sign of the true Messiah is, "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"

He made a very clear distinction "three days and three nights" If He had just said 3 days, possibly, but He made it very clear.

Hizikyah said:

phil36 · Oct 27, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Hi Hizikyah,

MMm now this gets really interesting, are you sure the writers of the gospels had in mind a strict 3 days and 3 nights (24 hr days)?

I understand how the the time was counted! That's not what I was asking.

Probably more precise here:

Are you so sure it was a definite exact three days 3 nights in their time calculations? Anyhow the article answers succinctly with out being pretentious.

Above article taken from Carm https://carm.org/how-long-was-jesus-dead-tomb

MarcR · Oct 27, 2017

Angela53510 said:

it is indeed a Jewish idiom to count any part of a day as a whole day; but there is NO Way that can justify a Friday crucifixion.

Jesus was crucified on Thursday Abib 14; Which started sundown Wednesday and ended sundown Thursday. Jesus ate the Passover with the disciples on Wednesday night (The evening of the 14 of Abib). He was arrested Wednesday night after dinner. He was crucified Thursday morning Abib 14. He died and was entombed before sundown which began Abib 15, the Levitical Sabbath. Thursday night and Friday Abib 15 were one night and one day. Friday night began the 7th day Sabbath Abib 16, which continued until Saturday sundown.(2 nights and 2 days).

Lk 24:46
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
KJV

Ac 10:40
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
KJV

1 Co 15:4
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
KJV

Jesus was raised on the third day which began Saturday at sundown and was the day of Firstfruits.

Lev 23:7-11
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
9 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
KJV

zeroturbulence · Oct 27, 2017

Jesus is put in the grave every day when someone rejects him...

and he is resurrected every day when someone finds him...

Yes, I just Jesus juked this thread!

...now if I could just figure out how to Jesus juke the Not By Works thread....

MarcR · Oct 27, 2017

There is a serious problem with a Wednesday Crucifixion. If Jesus were crucified on Wednesday Abib 14, Then Wednesday night/Thursday would have been the Levitical Sabbath of Abib 15; and nothing would have prevented the women from attending Jesus body on Friday.

With a Thursday crucifixion, Wednesday night/Thursday, Abib 14, Jesus is Crucified. Thursday night/Friday is the Levitical Sabbath of Abib 15. Friday night/Satturday is the seventh day Sabbath. and the women are unable to attend Jesus body until Sunday.

Hizikyah · Oct 27, 2017

zeroturbulence said:

Umm Im not really sure how to reply to this,it sounds "good" but it is not biblically based.

Hebrews

9:24, "For Messiah has not entered into a Set-apart Place made by hand – figures of the true – but into the heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of YHWH on our behalf,"

9:25, "not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters into the Set-apart Place year by year with blood not his own."

9:26, "For if so, He would have had to suffer often, since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the offering of Himself."

9:27, "And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment,"

9:28, "so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto deliverance."

10:10, "By that desire we have been set apart through the offering of the body of יהושע Messiah once for all."

10:11, "And indeed every priest stands day by day doing service, and repeatedly offering the same sacrifice offerings which are never able to take away sins."

10:12, "But He, having offered one sacrifice offering for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of Yah,"

10:13, "waiting from that time onward until His enemies are made a footstool for His feet.

When was the Messiah put in the grave? and when did He resurrect?

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